Supreme Court blocks New York City attendance limits for religious events

[PureX]

Sounds like the law was poorly written, and so was eventually struck down. The actual precedent of the state being able to dictate behavior (religious or otherwise) based on public safety remains intact, as it should be.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

See here.

I find it deeply embarrassing to admit that I find the comments of Justice Gorsuch compelling.

 

[metis]

Sounds like the law was poorly written, and so was eventually struck down. The actual precedent of the state being able to dictate behavior (religious or otherwise) based on public safety remains intact, as it should be.

Exactly, as the 1st also allows for "peaceful assembly". But notice the first word. IOW, if a specific assembly can cause harm, including possible death, then there's a constitutional basis to regulate it in some way(s).

 

[dybmh]

So how we serve god should be restricted by others?

During a pandemic, yes.

"One is obligated to violate any Torah precept in order to save a life. This is true even if there is only a remote chance that this act will save a life"

Source: Chabad.org - Is a Jew required to die rather than disobey a Torah command?

 

[bobhikes]

One need hardly point out the chief difference between retail and grocery stores, and religious venues. In retail and grocery stores, people have the briefest and least "social" of contacts, and (at least where I live), must be wearing masks. Indeed, there are limits on the numbers of people that can enter at any given time. In religious venues, however, people gather in a much more social way, often engage in risky activities like singing (usually meaning removing masks, if they're being worn), which helps to spread the aerosolized droplets potentially carrying the virus. And they spend upwards of an hour together.

These are very different.

Constitutionally how are they different?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Exactly the point. In your opinion food is more important than serving god. And you think others should be required to share your opinion on that. And yes, actually, food and clothing are not as important as serving god.

If you're god cant understand a very deadly disease necessitating us to alter our behaviors, how is that a god worthy of admiration and service? He's so selfish he demands you risk your health and life and the health and life of others to gather? What a monster. Especially when we also realize these gatherings are overloading the hospitals which strains them and reduces their ability to treat thos deadly virus amd other conditions as well.
That god is evil if he demands people risk such a thing.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Or think of it this way:
Even some Muslim terrorists groups are doing things differently due to covid (including peace talks and cease fires).

 

[Wandering Monk]

I wonder how much squealing there would be by those who resist public health measure if Ebola was on the loose in America?

 

[Shaul]

During a pandemic, yes.

"One is obligated to violate any Torah precept in order to save a life. This is true even if there is only a remote chance that this act will save a life"

Source: Chabad.org - Is a Jew required to die rather than disobey a Torah command?

The idea that laws of the state supersede those of G-d is a slippery slope. A slope that does not end well.

The edicts of the state of New York are certainly not on par with those of Torah. It is the edicts from NY that can certainly be ignored if they violate those of G-d, one of which is to observe Shabbat and to congregate. Supposing that following the mitzvot of G-d puts one’s life in danger is not true. Simply put it is a false dichotomy. It is certainly possible to follow Torah, including congregating, and still not endanger life or have exposure to Covid-19.

 

[Twilight Hue]

The Supreme Court has temporarily blocked a New York City restriction on the number of attendees at religious events.

https://nypost.com/2020/11/26/supre...cks-nyc-from-setting-church-attendance-limit/

In my opinion this restriction was an overreach. It was rationalized as a means to help fight the spread of Covid-19. But it was targeted at religious organizations while other types of institutions were not similarly restricted.

Chairman Coumo has been trying to violate and circumnavigate the Constitution since in office. Its great to hear that the constitutional protection of freedom of religion is being upheld.

 

[Altfish]

In my opinion this restriction was an overreach. It was rationalized as a means to help fight the spread of Covid-19. But it was targeted at religious organizations while other types of institutions were not similarly restricted.

Was it?

Were sporting events with large crowds allowed?
Were large (say) weddings allowed?

I honestly don't know, the US is a crazy place so maybe they were.

 

[dybmh]

The idea that laws of the state supersede those of G-d is a slippery slope. A slope that does not end well.

Agreed, but the pandemic is an extraordinary situation. It requires extreme precautions.

In Charlotte, 8 people died, 187 people were infected. The role of government is to prevent these things from continuing to occur.

More COVID-19 deaths linked to super-spreader event at Charlotte church

Further, the public health services across the country are over taxed. It's a community problem; that's why the government needs to be involved. It's about saving lives as The Torah instructs.

It is certainly possible to follow Torah, including congregating, and still not endanger life or have exposure to Covid-19.

Ok, how do you propose to do this without government intervention?

Edit to add: what did you think of this?

No. 24th - $15,000 Fine After Secret Hasidic Wedding Draws Thousands of Guests

 

[Twilight Hue]

I wonder how much squealing there would be by those who resist public health measure if Ebola was on the loose in America?

All Covid has to do is be on par and scope with the dangers of Ebola. Easy.

 

[Shaul]

If you're god cant understand a very deadly disease necessitating us to alter our behaviors, how is that a god worthy of admiration and service? He's so selfish he demands you risk your health and life and the health and life of others to gather? What a monster. Especially when we also realize these gatherings are overloading the hospitals which strains them and reduces their ability to treat thos deadly virus amd other conditions as well.
That god is evil if he demands people risk such a thing.

G-d doesn’t say to ignore the disease. Don’t argue a straw man. G-d wants us to observe His miztvot while doing it in a way that is safe.

There is no evidence that religious gatherings, per se, increase risk for spreading Covid-19.

 

[Wandering Monk]

This ruling by SCOTUS is not a permanent injunction. It is temporary.

 

[Shaul]

Agreed, but the pandemic is an extraordinary situation. It requires extreme precautions.

In Charlotte, 8 people died, 187 people were infected. The role of government is to prevent these things from continuing to occur.

More COVID-19 deaths linked to super-spreader event at Charlotte church

Further, the public health services across the country are over taxed. It's a community problem; that's why the government needs to be involved. It's about saving lives as The Torah instructs.



Ok, how do you propose to do this without government intervention?

Edit to add: what did you think of this?

No. 24th - $15,000 Fine After Secret Hasidic Wedding Draws Thousands of Guests

I am not responsible for any actions of some church. Take that up with them. Nor do their actions reflect on religious organizations elsewhere and aren’t justification for trampling the rights of others. Regarding the Hasidic wedding I have several thoughts and many questions. However nothing about this event justifies unfettered, capricious and authoritarian edicts by a state. No, a state is NOT the final authority on the public health. The Body Politic at large is.

A State should only exercise the minimum restrictions on the public that it needs to perform necessary things. The actions of the state of New York in this case went far beyond that.

 

[sun rise]

Exactly the point. In your opinion food is more important than serving god. And you think others should be required to share your opinion on that. And yes, actually, food and clothing are not as important as serving god.

How does being a super-spreader site serve to further Tikkun Olam when in fact it spreads disease, misery and death.

 

[sun rise]

A State should only exercise the minimum restrictions on the public that it needs to perform necessary things.

Preserving the life and health of the public is NECESSARY.

 

[dybmh]

I am not responsible for any actions of some church. Take that up with them. Nor do their actions reflect on religious organizations elsewhere and aren’t justification for trampling the rights of others. Regarding the Hasidic wedding I have several thoughts and many questions. However nothing about this event justifies unfettered, capricious and authoritarian edicts by a state. No, a state is NOT the final authority on the public health. The Body Politic at large is.

A State should only exercise the minimum restrictions on the public that it needs to perform necessary things. The actions of the state of New York in this case went far beyond that.

Thank you for the reply.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

There is no evidence that religious gatherings, per se, increase risk for spreading Covid-19.

There is sufficient evidence that gatherings in general where people are not masked and distanced spread the disease. Even when people are taking precautions, the disease spreads.

Preserving the life and health of the public is NECESSARY.

We apparently hallucinated and didn't actually read that "promote the general Welfare" part of the Constitution. The State is apparently supposed to allow the wanton and unrestricted spread of a deadly disease and do absolutely nothing about it.