Sunnism, Deobandi, Sufism, Shia twelver, Shia ismaillies, Ibadism, Quranism

[Kathryn]

What I said was that it is probably due to my western mindset, who knows? But for instance, look up the sects or whatever you want to call them in the title. It differs a lot from Christianity by the way, in my opinion. It seems closer to Judaism. And don't get me started on that one! LOL @JustGeorge

 

[RestlessSoul]

 

[JustGeorge]

What I said was that it is probably due to my western mindset, who knows? But for instance, look up the sects or whatever you want to call them in the title. It differs a lot from Christianity by the way, in my opinion. It seems closer to Judaism. And don't get me started on that one! LOL @JustGeorge

I won't get you started. I consider myself fairly ignorant on the Abrahamic faiths.

 

[SalixIncendium]

None of the above. All I see when Islam is mentioned is barbarity and cruelty.

Maybe look beyond what the media tells you?

 

[Twilight Hue]

Maybe look beyond what the media tells you?

It's hard when it's been well documented and very graphic. At least with mainstream Islamic theocracy and their brutal means of enforcement.

 

[danieldemol]

I don't think disciples are a thing for them

In some sects the companions of the Prophet known as the Sahaba are kind of a big deal actually in my view.

 

[JustGeorge]

In some sects the companions of the Prophet known as the Sahaba are kind of a big deal actually in my view.

Good to know! Thanks! Which sects are they more important in?

 

[danieldemol]

Good to know! Thanks! Which sects are they more important in?

Probably better to ask (knowledgeable) Muslims that.
I could only find this indirect answer from Encyclopaedia Brittanica;

'The Companions, being eyewitnesses, are the most important sources of Hadith, the record of Muhammad’s sayings and activities. Shiʿi Muslims, however, take a more critical approach than the Sunnis toward the reports of the ṣaḥābah'
Source: Companions of the Prophet | History, Sahabah, & Hadith

 

[Spice]

It's hard when it's been well documented and very graphic. At least with mainstream Islamic theocracy and their brutal means of enforcement.

Imagine what Christianity would have looked like on the 6 o'clock news ~1400 years after it's founding! Islam is going through the same adolescent pains now in their ~1400th year.

 

[Truthseeker]

Sunnism, Deobandi, Sufism, Shia twelver, Shia ismaillies, Ibadism, Quranism

If you had to convert to Islam, which direction within Islam would you have chosen? And why?

I am a believer in the succession of Imams, which I guess would make me a Shia Twelver, except I doubt the historical existence of the 12th Imam.

 

[sun rise]

Sufism without a doubt especially the Chisti school for its universality and focus on beauty in all its forms.

Hazrat Inayat Khan from that lineage composed this prayer, Salat, which goes, in part (emphasis mine showing its universality)

Salat

Most gracious Sovereign,
Messenger, Messiah, and Savior of humanity,
We greet Thee with all humility.
Thou art the First Cause and the Last Effect,
the Divine Light and the Spirit of Guidance,
Alpha and Omega.
Thy Light is in all forms,
Thy Love in all beings:
in a loving mother, in a kind father, in an innocent child,
in a helpful friend, in an inspiring teacher.
Allow us to recognize Thee in all Thy holy names and forms:
as Rama, as Krishna, as Shiva, as Buddha.
Let us know Thee as Abraham, as Solomon, as Zarathushtra, as Moses, as Jesus, as Muhammad¹,
and in many other names and forms, known and unknown to the world.

 

[Starlight]

I am a believer in the succession of Imams, which I guess would make me a Shia Twelver, except I doubt the historical existence of the 12th Imam.

So you are not a bahai anymore?

or did you mean that since bahais believe in the twelve imams you are kinda like a shia twelver?

 

[Truthseeker]

So you are not a bahai anymore?

or did you mean that since bahais believe in the twelve imams you are kinda like a shia twelver?

It is the latter. The Baha'is believe in the Imam succession. Though I took a course in Shi'i Islam where evidence was presented which threw doubt on the existence of the 12th Imam. It was a course run by Baha'i scholars, by the way.

 

[firedragon]

None of the above. All I see when Islam is mentioned is barbarity and cruelty.

They you have read some list of quote mining. Very irresponsible. Epistemically irresponsible.

 

[firedragon]

There is a school of thought that says Sufis were influenced by Buddhism. Geological proximity to areas where Buddhism was established is thought to be a factor,as well as the emphasis in Sufism on transcendent experiences and raised consciousness, initiated through prayer and meditation (and the Sema , the dance of the Whirling Dervishes).

That's factually wrong. Imam Bukhari was speaking about Tasawwuf. So that was way before your geographical equation. Sufism evolved later. After Ibn Arabi and his Wahdathul Wujood, some parts of Sufism changed even further. It's obvious they got influenced by Hinduism. Maybe even Buddhism for a much much lesser degree. But that was a later development.

 

[firedragon]

The bad tragic part? It's strict adherence to what can only be best described as Old Testament 'virtue' to the bloodiest and goryest letter.

Absolutely wrong. Obviously because you have never read any of the scripture you are speaking about and have never made a decent comparison. It's too obvious. At least today or tomorrow, do some study. Cheers.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Absolutely wrong. Obviously because you have never read any of the scripture you are speaking about and have never made a decent comparison. It's too obvious. At least today or tomorrow, do some study. Cheers.

Hardly. Stoning? Decapitation? Mutilation? Over what? A religious scarf or a woman's sexual activity? Critique of one's religion? Disrespect of one's prophet?

This is 2024 not 1st century AD.

 

[RestlessSoul]

That's factually wrong. Imam Bukhari was speaking about Tasawwuf. So that was way before your geographical equation. Sufism evolved later. After Ibn Arabi and his Wahdathul Wujood, some parts of Sufism changed even further. It's obvious they got influenced by Hinduism. Maybe even Buddhism for a much much lesser degree. But that was a later development.

Nice to see you back. Contrary as ever, or maybe you have mellowed but don't want to show it? Whatever, the forum is a poorer place without your contributions.

 

[Link]

The rich tradition of Sufism in terms of wisdom not withstanding their own made up rituals, can all find support in Shiite hadiths, but you will not find explicit support in them in Sunni hadiths.

That is you can back up the beliefs in Islamic mysticism in the hadiths of Ahlulbayt (a) but you cannot find sufficient support for it in Sunni hadiths.

Shia Sufis exist too. Now it's called Irfan but at one point they were known as Shia Sufis.

Anyways, Shia interpretation to me is about how you recite Quran. If the Quran has a true effect on your heart and causes you to revere God and fear him, you will recite the true Quran in as much as it will reveal the Twelve successors to Mohammad (S).

All the stories of past chosen Prophets (a) are not random stories. In most places in some direct or indirect manner, it's emphasizing that they come in groups and it's emphasizing on their succession to one another.

While the transgressing heart wonders what is God intending with all these parables, likenesses, and examples (all contained in the word amthal) per Quran, the believers increase in faith to this design. They see truth in these stories and don't see them just as stories. They see it as a warning and example of the past and see God's way through it.

The chosen guides are part of the design of God's system. Just as there is a sun and moon, and water, and all these favors, God completes the design through leaders and guides he appoints.

The purposes of mentioning the family of Ibrahim (a) is to show in a past example of the family of the reminder.

 

[firedragon]

Hardly. Stoning?

Give me the verse in the Qur'an please.
Thanks.