Struggling to come to terms with something I have read in the bible.

[Riverwolf]

You know what, Free Spirit?

Neither of us are getting anywhere, and what started out as a debate is turning into an argument, and I fear that I may end up trying to change your mind, despite how I said earlier that I didn't want to. I'm finding my responses are becoming more rushed and not as well thought-out, and that's not a good thing at all.

So I'm just going to step down. This debate is doing nothing for my spiritual growth, and is in fact hindering it.

Santi upon thee.

 

[kiwimac]

Homosexuality is not sinful. What the Bible speaks of has to do with Temple Prostitutes (both Male and female) not homosexuals.

 

[darkendless]

Homosexuality is not sinful. What the Bible speaks of has to do with Temple Prostitutes (both Male and female) not homosexuals.

Interesting, i have never heard such an interpretation before. I never thought God would put homosexuals on the earth to be condemned. I think such an interpretation needs to be forwarded to church leaders

 

[Riverwolf]

Homosexuality is not sinful. What the Bible speaks of has to do with Temple Prostitutes (both Male and female) not homosexuals.

Interesting interpretation.

What do you have to back this up?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

The homosexual act is a sin because it is offensive to God: because it goes against his ordained order of things. End of story.
It is not my idea or law, so you agree with God or you do not. any other argument is useless because God will not change his mind.

If it's offensive to God, if God thinks that it's wrong, then why did he make me like this? Why should I suffer eternally for his mistake?
Like I stated before. I doubt God has a problem with gays. I think rather everybody else does.

 

[free spirit]

If it's offensive to God, if God thinks that it's wrong, then why did he make me like this? Why should I suffer eternally for his mistake?
Like I stated before. I doubt God has a problem with gays. I think rather everybody else does.

I truly sympathize with you, but God did not make you homosexual, for if he did then he would have a sick mind.
No, we are what we are because of our environment Like the people we frequent or because of our family history.
in other Words our character foundations gets lied very early in our life we might not even remember.
And it is written somewhere that the sins of the fathers are visited upon the children.
However in both cases as we became adults we have the power to reject what was placed on our plate.

 

[Mr Cheese]

Interesting interpretation.

What do you have to back this up?

if one looks at the original language you can reach this conclusion.

In fact it is far easier to reach the homosexual =sin conclusion in translation

 

[tumbleweed41]

I truly sympathize with you, but God did not make you homosexual, for if he did then he would have a sick mind.

So, it seems that if God created LGBT's exactly as they are, you can freely accuse God of having a "sick mind".....

This shows that your bigotry outweighs your trust in God.:rainbow1:
Thanks for the insight.

 

[Enoch07]

If it's offensive to God, if God thinks that it's wrong, then why did he make me like this? Why should I suffer eternally for his mistake?
Like I stated before. I doubt God has a problem with gays. I think rather everybody else does.

Just because you sinned (by being gay) does not doom you to hell automatically. 1 sin regardless of what it is cannot condemn you to hell.

 

[tumbleweed41]

Just because you sinned (by being gay) does not doom you to hell automatically. 1 sin regardless of what it is cannot condemn you to hell.

How very open minded of you.

 

[blackout]

Just because you sinned (by being gay) does not doom you to hell automatically. 1 sin regardless of what it is cannot condemn you to hell.

How very open minded of you.

:yes: And Generous, as well.

 

[free spirit]

Does that mean your parents were bigots too?

No my parents, but my grandparents were. And I spend my summers holidays with them. So here I am been called a bigot.

 

[Wookiemonster]

Sexual relations between men are clearly forbidden by the Torah. (Lev. 18:22). Such acts are condemned in the strongest possible terms, as abhorrent.

It is important to note, however, that it is homosexual acts that are forbidden, not homosexual orientation. Judaism focuses on a person's actions rather than a person's desires. A man's desire to have sex with another man is not a sin, so long as he does not act upon that desire.

I have seen some modern Orthodox sources suggest that if homosexuality is truly something hardwired in the brain, as most gay activists suggest, then a man who acts upon that desire is not morally responsible for his actions, but I am not sure how wide-spread that opinion is. In any case, it is not quite as liberal a position as some would have you believe: essentially, it is equivalent to saying that a kleptomaniac would not be held morally responsible for stealing.

Interestingly, female homosexual relations are not forbidden by the Torah. There is very little discussion of female homosexuality in the Talmud. The few sources that mention lesbian relations say that they do not disqualify a woman from certain privileges of the priesthood, because it is "merely licentiousness." There is a surprising lack of discussion of such issues as whether lesbianism would be grounds for divorcing a woman without her consent or without ketubah. Rambam asserted that lesbian practices are forbidden because it was a "practice of Egypt" and because it constituted rebelliousness.

 

[free spirit]

Sexual relations between men are clearly forbidden by the Torah. (Lev. 18:22). Such acts are condemned in the strongest possible terms, as abhorrent.

It is important to note, however, that it is homosexual acts that are forbidden, not homosexual orientation. Judaism focuses on a person's actions rather than a person's desires. A man's desire to have sex with another man is not a sin, so long as he does not act upon that desire.

I have seen some modern Orthodox sources suggest that if homosexuality is truly something hardwired in the brain, as most gay activists suggest, then a man who acts upon that desire is not morally responsible for his actions, but I am not sure how wide-spread that opinion is. In any case, it is not quite as liberal a position as some would have you believe: essentially, it is equivalent to saying that a kleptomaniac would not be held morally responsible for stealing.

Interestingly, female homosexual relations are not forbidden by the Torah. There is very little discussion of female homosexuality in the Talmud. The few sources that mention lesbian relations say that they do not disqualify a woman from certain privileges of the priesthood, because it is "merely licentiousness." There is a surprising lack of discussion of such issues as whether lesbianism would be grounds for divorcing a woman without her consent or without ketubah. Rambam asserted that lesbian practices are forbidden because it was a "practice of Egypt" and because it constituted rebelliousness.

In my early twenty's I learned that there was such a thing as lesbianism for I never thought that they had any tools to invade anyone, then I learned about that they use a "dildo" so i came to the conclusion that a lesbian is a woman doing a man's job.

 

[Dirty Penguin]

In my early twenty's I learned that there was such a thing as lesbianism for I never thought that they had any tools to invade anyone, then I learned about that they use a "dildo" so i came to the conclusion that a lesbian is a woman doing a man's job.

You make the assumption that only "lesbian" partners are using dildos. The heterosexual community are a big contributor to the purchase of adult toys. Your characterization is grossly incorrect. It appears you know very little about the gay and lesbian community. Hint...it doesn't center around sex....If that were the case then the heterosexual community is guilty as well.

 

[Riverwolf]

If that were the case then the heterosexual community is guilty as well.

Probably even more guilty, all things considered.

 

[free spirit]

You make the assumption that only "lesbian" partners are using dildos. The heterosexual community are a big contributor to the purchase of adult toys. Your characterization is grossly incorrect. It appears you know very little about the gay and lesbian community. Hint...it doesn't center around sex....If that were the case then the heterosexual community is guilty as well.

Yes I must admit, I am a bit of a prude, But it is not the fact who is guilty, because we all one way or the other are sinners, the difference is to know that we are sinners and doing something about it. And not trying to find excuses like I was born that way so it is God's fault.

 

[tumbleweed41]

Yes I must admit, I am a bit of a prude, But it is not the fact who is guilty, because we all one way or the other are sinners, the difference is to know that we are sinners and doing something about it. And not trying to find excuses like I was born that way so it is God's fault.

I have never met any LGBT's who blame God. They may say God made them the way they are, but to blame God infers that they believe there is something wrong with them.
They do not blame, they accept.
It is a very healthy attitude to have.
No one is looking for excuses, the problem is people like you who are looking to condemn.

 

[Mr Cheese]

Sexual relations between men are clearly forbidden by the Torah. (Lev. 18:22). Such acts are condemned in the strongest possible terms, as abhorrent.

It is important to note, however, that it is homosexual acts that are forbidden, not homosexual orientation. Judaism focuses on a person's actions rather than a person's desires. A man's desire to have sex with another man is not a sin, so long as he does not act upon that desire.

I have seen some modern Orthodox sources suggest that if homosexuality is truly something hardwired in the brain, as most gay activists suggest, then a man who acts upon that desire is not morally responsible for his actions, but I am not sure how wide-spread that opinion is. In any case, it is not quite as liberal a position as some would have you believe: essentially, it is equivalent to saying that a kleptomaniac would not be held morally responsible for stealing.

Interestingly, female homosexual relations are not forbidden by the Torah. There is very little discussion of female homosexuality in the Talmud. The few sources that mention lesbian relations say that they do not disqualify a woman from certain privileges of the priesthood, because it is "merely licentiousness." There is a surprising lack of discussion of such issues as whether lesbianism would be grounds for divorcing a woman without her consent or without ketubah. Rambam asserted that lesbian practices are forbidden because it was a "practice of Egypt" and because it constituted rebelliousness.

Ah you're an orthodox Jew or a hasid...or maybe a (shudder) convert

not all jews accept the ideas you are stating....

 

[Mr Cheese]

No my parents, but my grandparents were. And I spend my summers holidays with them. So here I am been called a bigot.

Hatred is a learned concept....

I don't think you know any better though....

...

“Take a pitcher full of water and set it down in the water- now it has
water inside and water outside. We musn’t give it a name, lest silly
people start talking again about the body and the soul.”

–Kabir