1. Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Stigmatizing

Discussion in 'COVID-19' started by InChrist, Jan 5, 2022.

  1. We Never Know

    We Never Know Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2019
    Messages:
    9,867
    Ratings:
    +6,903
    Religion:
    It exists
    What is the survival rate/% of covid?
    That answer is among the reasons some won't take the vaccine
     
    #41 We Never Know, Jan 14, 2022
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2022
  2. 9-10ths_Penguin

    9-10ths_Penguin 1/10 Subway Stalinist
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2007
    Messages:
    64,191
    Ratings:
    +22,194
    Religion:
    None (atheist)
    The mortality rate is 1.1% here in Canada. Other countries have been hit much worse.

    No, it really isn't.

    The way you can tell: ask them what the mortality rate would need to be for them to get vaccinated.

    If their refusal really is because they think the mortality rate is too low, they'll be able to tell you what the rate would have to be for them to consider it not "too low."

    If someone can't give you a specific number, it's because they don't have one.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  3. We Never Know

    We Never Know Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2019
    Messages:
    9,867
    Ratings:
    +6,903
    Religion:
    It exists
    I have asked some. They said in the US 65 million infected with 800k deaths equal 98.8% survival rate so I will take my chances with the survival rate.
     
  4. 9-10ths_Penguin

    9-10ths_Penguin 1/10 Subway Stalinist
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2007
    Messages:
    64,191
    Ratings:
    +22,194
    Religion:
    None (atheist)
    What did they say the survival rate would have to be for them to get the vaccine?
     
  5. SkepticThinker

    SkepticThinker Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2013
    Messages:
    14,275
    Ratings:
    +7,766
    Weird how it doesn't occur to them that even with such a "high" survival rate, the number of people who have died from COVID is insanely high.
    Turns out 1.2% turns out to be a LOT of dead people. That comes out to 5.52 MILLION deaths worldwide and counting.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  6. Polymath257

    Polymath257 Think & Care
    Staff Member Premium Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2017
    Messages:
    23,567
    Ratings:
    +29,344
    Religion:
    Non-theist
    How in the world are those two remotely the same???

    Nobody claims that vaccinated people ONLY catch the virus because of unvaccinated people. That would be silly.

    But it is also the case that having a lot of unvaccinated people, who are thereby more at risk of catching and transmitting the virus and its variants, puts everyone, including the vaccinated at higher risk. And that has prolonged this pandemic unnecessarily.

    If everyone was vaccinated, there would still be variants that arise, but they would be far less likely to spread and infect large numbers of people. There would still be *small* outbreaks. But the massive infection rates that overwhelm our healthcare system would not be happening.

    By giving a large population of people that more much more likely to get infected, they provide a reservoir where mutations can occur and spread. This type of spread doesn't happen in smaller populations, or where more people have high immunity.

    These mutations are the *variants* that we see popping up. The risk is that they can be more transmissible and/or more deadly than previous variants. Also, new variants can be different enough that the vaccines don't provide as much immunity, thereby putting even those who are vaccinated at risk.

    At each and every step of this pandemic, there have been some that refuse to take basic measures to reduce the severity of this disease. From refusing to socially distance, to refusing to wear masks, to refusing to get vaccinated, they have consistently refused to take responsibility and have put others at risk.

    Once again, NO VACCINE IS 100% EFFECTIVE. But it is far, far, far better than letting the virus propagate unchecked.

    Simply having fewer people at risk of infection makes it harder for mutations to spread. Having a large number of people at risk means that variants will continue to occur and spread. This puts even those who are vaccinated at risk.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  7. Polymath257

    Polymath257 Think & Care
    Staff Member Premium Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2017
    Messages:
    23,567
    Ratings:
    +29,344
    Religion:
    Non-theist
    Really? What survival rate would lead you to saying a vaccine is warranted? Would 90% be too low? How about 80%? 50%?

    What do you think the survival rate was for the Spanish Flu? Smallpox? What diseases, historically, had a survival rate low enough to warrant vaccines in your mind?

    Historically, a 1.2% death rate is *very* high.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  8. We Never Know

    We Never Know Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2019
    Messages:
    9,867
    Ratings:
    +6,903
    Religion:
    It exists
    I didn't ask them.
     
  9. We Never Know

    We Never Know Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2019
    Messages:
    9,867
    Ratings:
    +6,903
    Religion:
    It exists
    Read my post again. I didn't say that, its what some people I have talked to said.
     
  10. 9-10ths_Penguin

    9-10ths_Penguin 1/10 Subway Stalinist
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2007
    Messages:
    64,191
    Ratings:
    +22,194
    Religion:
    None (atheist)
    But you do see my point, right?

    If someone says "the mortality rate isn't high enough for me to get a vaccine," then – if they aren't full of crap – they have an idea of what the mortality rate would be where they would get the vaccine.

    If someone says "the vaccine hasn't been tested enough to know it's safe," then – if they aren't full of crap – they have an idea of how much testing would make them feel like they would feel safe.

    If someone says "the vaccine has too many side effects," then – if they aren't full of crap – they have an idea of a side effect rate that they would consider acceptable.

    It's not even a matter of their opinion being reasonable or informed; it's a matter of their opinion being honest and internally consistent.
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Winner Winner x 1
  11. nPeace

    nPeace Veteran Member

    Joined:
    May 31, 2018
    Messages:
    10,775
    Ratings:
    +3,126
    Religion:
    Follower of Christ
    @TagliatelliMonster I noticed you did not respond to my post. Any reason why?
    Will you be responding to it. I really would like to hear your response.
    Also, I am interested in your educating us on this. Can the virus mutate and thus become a new variant in fully vaccinated people, and thus put others at risk, including the unvaccinated.
    I am not interested in the far more likelys and the figure comparisons. Is that okay with you?

    Hence, how is it that the unvaccinated are prolonging the pandemic? ...More precisely, the ignorant selfish unvaccinated?
    Something else I am interested in that was just said, but I'm interested in hearing you on this first.
     
  12. Polymath257

    Polymath257 Think & Care
    Staff Member Premium Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2017
    Messages:
    23,567
    Ratings:
    +29,344
    Religion:
    Non-theist
    Well, it shouldn't be okay.

    The *whole point* is to *reduce* risk. There is no way to *eliminate* it. So those 'more likelys' and 'figure comparisons' are the *whole point*.
     
  13. We Never Know

    We Never Know Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2019
    Messages:
    9,867
    Ratings:
    +6,903
    Religion:
    It exists
    When I talked to people about the vaccine I listen to what they say without arguing with them, whether I agree or disagree.
    Some say they don't trust it, some say there isnt enough data, some say the survival rate is almost 99% , etc.

    Same as I don't argue with people about religion. They have their thoughts and I'm not going to try to change them.
     
    • Winner Winner x 1
  14. Thirza Fallen

    Thirza Fallen Crazy Cat Lady

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2013
    Messages:
    5,104
    Ratings:
    +2,713
    Religion:
    Agnostic Pantheist
    So you have never ever had a vaccine or shot? Really? You never eat food that is bad for you or use products that have harmful chemicals in them?
     
  15. Thirza Fallen

    Thirza Fallen Crazy Cat Lady

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2013
    Messages:
    5,104
    Ratings:
    +2,713
    Religion:
    Agnostic Pantheist
    When people pretend their religion is against certain actions, you will not be able to reason with them to make smart choices. It's sad. They keep doing things that make people resent them and wonder why.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
  16. InChrist

    InChrist Free4ever

    Joined:
    May 9, 2011
    Messages:
    9,236
    Ratings:
    +2,523
    The last shot I’ve had was over thirty years ago and vaccine over forty-five years. I eat organic, non-GMO food almost all the time. I avoid products with harmful chemicals as much as possible as there are plenty of safer alternatives and certainly don’t have such chemicals injected into my bloodstream.
     
  17. Thirza Fallen

    Thirza Fallen Crazy Cat Lady

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2013
    Messages:
    5,104
    Ratings:
    +2,713
    Religion:
    Agnostic Pantheist
    At least you're trying to be consistent.
     
  18. TagliatelliMonster

    TagliatelliMonster Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2019
    Messages:
    13,695
    Ratings:
    +11,581
    Religion:
    Atheist
    The word "only" implies that vaccinated people can not catch it from another vaccinated person.
    Which is not true.

    The unvaccinated indeed prolong the pandemic problems and idd are a statistical danger to everyone, if there are enough of them.

    The immune system of an unvaccinated person still has to learn how to respond once infected. So they are sick and infectious for longer. It means the virus gets to reproduce a lot longer then in a vaccinated person (since then the immune system kicks in right away with what it already has learned from the vaccine).

    Meaning:
    - infectious for larger periods of time
    - a LOT more virus particles (so more infectious also, not just longer)
    - more reproduction = more mutations = higher chance of mutants capable of breaking through vaccination

    A combination of these factors means that they will infect a lot more people (including the vaccinated) and will also end up in the hospital a lot more also. Meaning more stress on healthcare systems. Leading to restrictive measures and lockdowns.

    So in short, the unvaccinated infect a lot more people then the vaccinated. And they likely also will be the incubators of new variants.

    Ironically, the omicron variant might be the beginning of the end.

    Apparently it's required...

    See above.

    They are among the 3 to 7% (depending on which vaccine they had) in which the vaccination didn't work very well.


    PS: how do you explain that in countries where the vast majority is vaccinated, the vast majority of the hospitalized, those in ICU and those that die are unvaccinated people?

    Could it perhaps be that being vaccinated lowers your chances severely of needing hospitalization, ICU or worse? And since the social measures and lockdowns are a direct result of stress on hospitals (to prevent health care collapse), wouldn't then by definition mean that unvaccinated people are prolonging pandemic measures?
     
    • Winner Winner x 1
  19. nPeace

    nPeace Veteran Member

    Joined:
    May 31, 2018
    Messages:
    10,775
    Ratings:
    +3,126
    Religion:
    Follower of Christ
    I'll get back to you shortly with an answer to your question, along with a scenario. Just have something to do in a few minutes.
     
  20. nPeace

    nPeace Veteran Member

    Joined:
    May 31, 2018
    Messages:
    10,775
    Ratings:
    +3,126
    Religion:
    Follower of Christ
    Sorry Tag. Lost interest. It's not you. I just don't want to talk about this topic on RF anymore.
    See you some other time.... some other thread.:)

    If you really really really feel it's important though, PM me.
     
Loading...