Spirituality versus Religion

[Unveiled Artist]

Spirituality is your life guided by the morals which help you function in the world-with others, family, and with self. It's the morals that ground you so that life makes sense. It is the intense feeling that now that you are grounded, you can grow in learning, whatever subject it may be in.

Religion says to spirituality "yes, you have morals, but what are you going to do with those morals?" Religion is a structure (even a structure of non-structure) or a foundation to which your morals are shaped. For example, my moral is not to take a life for any reason. That's fine and dandy as a spiritual moral or belief but if I go and kill someone, how does that moral really apply to me. I'm just being a hypocrite. If I practice what I believe-have a religion-then my morals shape me based on what I do rather than just what I believe.

On that note:

I coined a saying decades ago: "Religion is for people who don't want to go to hell. Spirituality is for people who have already been there and don't want to go back."

What do you think?

I think that's kind of funny. Made me chuckle. It depends on the person's experiences with organized religion, it seems in this case. In general, religion is when people want to turn their morals to actions. Spirituality is seeing their actions as a reflection of their morals.

Do you think a person who doesn't follow a religion is wrong?

No. Most people have morals. I just don't understand how one can live off of "do not kill" but then have no means to apply the value of life in their everyday lifestyle. That's religion: application.

I consider it half way there.

Are all forms of religions good?

If we see religion as a gun, no. Not every religion uses it for the good. While others use it to prop their tables or target shoot walls as a hobby.

If we saw religions as each one having a different utincile: fork, spoon, knife, etc. and I picked up a fork to try to eat soup, of course it's not going to help me nourish my body. It's not wrong in itself. It's just not the right one to use. If I took a knife and stabbed someone, it's not religion/utincile, it's how I used it and to whom. I abused the tool. It's not wrong in itself unless used inappropriately. However, if I use a spoon to eat spoon and a spatula to flip a grilled cheese sandwich, then it's not wrong on either end. It benefits all.

Do you think a person who isn't into spirituality is somehow doomed?

No. In my personal opinion, I find having having interest and motivation to start a spiritual journey (aka grow in oneself in knowledge, social interaction, and place in his environment or other) is beneficial to a person's health and physical and mental well being. I haven't met anyone who didn't have morals, though unless they suffered from clinical depression or something.

Are all forms for spirituality good?

No. In my opinion, if it takes a life-physically (death) or mentally (from abuse to extreme indoctrination), then it isn't healthy. Good/healthy is how I see it. Good as a moral depends on the person.

Do you think there's a difference?

Between religion and spirituality? No. Both support and compliments the other. It's like soup (again).

Spirituality is the soup itself.
Religion is the bowl (structure) and utincle (practice) that holds the soup. Unless you want it all over your countertop.

You can have as many different types of soups-Chicken,Tomato, etc. That's fine.

I just find it odd when one party says "oh, I don't need a bowl, I can eat the soup with my mind or soul."

Then the other party says "of course you need a bowl, but you can mix and match the soups. Don't worry if you get sick by putting Mushroom and Cream soup with Raviolli and chicken noodle. It takes awhile for it to taste good to you."

Then another says "Okay, yeah we need to the bowl. It's just not the main focus. We need the right soup that won't unsettle our tummies, but we don't need the utincils because nourishment doesn't need things for us to be fulfilled." Then I think, how do you eat your soup, then?

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I wouldn't personally know what spirituality is, unless a spirit were defined to me. What definition of spirituality? There's a few.

Psychological and physiological fulfillment of sense of achievement, connection, relationship with self, family, other, and/or humanity, inspiration from foundations (external or internal) that could be manuals for life itself, a sense of belonging even if it's getting "likes" on RF-seeing that as a reflection of your personality rather than an uplift in ego. Things like that.

 

[Ingledsva]

pirituality vs. religion... Is it six in one hand, half a dozen in the other? What's the difference?

I coined a saying decades ago: "Religion is for people who don't want to go to hell. Spirituality is for people who have already been there and don't want to go back."

What do you think?

Do you think a person who doesn't follow a religion is wrong? Are all forms of religions good?

Do you think a person who isn't into spirituality is somehow doomed? Are all forms fo spirituality good?

Do you think there's a difference?

Religion - is Spirituality with DOGMA attached, - which usually becomes rigid, leading to trying to force others under your dogma. YOUR one and only way, to YOUR understanding of God, and what that is.

*

 

[ronandcarol]

Do you think a person who doesn't follow a religion is wrong? Are all forms of religions good? Do you think a person who isn't into spirituality is somehow doomed? Are all forms of spirituality good?

I would think that a person that doesn't follow a religion would not be a Christian. I don't feel that all religions are good. That said I am not knocking any other persons 'religion'. As far as spirituality, I have no idea what that all means, or what they believe. As far as that word doomed goes, the Bible that I read states that only followers of Jesus Christ will not be doomed. If you are a disciple of Christ in this life you will be a co-heir with Christ in His Kingdom.

ronandcarol

 

[Windwalker]

As far as spirituality, I have no idea what that all means, or what they believe.

Finally! Someone who claims to be a Christian who admits they have no idea what spirituality is. I don't know whether to applaud, or cry. But at least this is honest.

I only wonder then what is the point of following a religion then if it's not to nurture a spiritual life? Is for power? Politics? Career? Sex? Since it's not about having a spiritual life, then it's gotta be something less worthy. Personal gain? House in the sky with gold doors?

 

[arthra]

Do you think a person who doesn't follow a religion is wrong? Are all forms of religions good?
Do you think a person who isn't into spirituality is somehow doomed? Are all forms fo spirituality good? Do you think there's a difference?

I believe both religion and spirituality are important.. Yes sometimes the forms of religion can stifle spirituality. Spiritual experiences are important in our lives and they can confirm the religion we are following. When a new Prophet appears there is a revelatory experience that can upset the religious establishment but the revelation in order to be continued can also require some form of organization to perpetuate itself, that is, in a historical sense some form of record is required to pass down the experience of the revelation to others or to preserve it over time.

So you can look at this in different ways as it is an ongoing process and developement.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

Both words are understood in wildly different ways, so a proper context would need to be established before a meaningful answer can be offered.

I have no idea what "spiritual" means in a modern context. It seems to have the sense of seeking something beyond the mundane, but beyond that it's hopelessly fuzzy.

 

[Ingledsva]

I would think that a person that doesn't follow a religion would not be a Christian. I don't feel that all religions are good. That said I am not knocking any other persons 'religion'. As far as spirituality, I have no idea what that all means, or what they believe. As far as that word doomed goes, the Bible that I read states that only followers of Jesus Christ will not be doomed. If you are a disciple of Christ in this life you will be a co-heir with Christ in His Kingdom.

ronandcarol

It is that baloney that lets me know the God of the Bible is not GOD.

For good people to go to hell - just for not believing in one particular religion, - which has no proof, - is ridiculous.

*

 

[Windwalker]

Spiritual experiences are important in our lives and they can confirm the religion we are following.

More properly stated your experiences can validate for you that the form of religion you are following is working for you where you are currently at. That is not "confirming" the religion as "the truth", but rather it's usefulness to you for the stage you are at in your particular growth. Later on, it may not be valid for you any longer as you continue to grow. When the religion insists on being the "revelation of God" that you must never question, is when it hinders spiritual growth and should be questioned all the more.

When a new Prophet appears there is a revelatory experience that can upset the religious establishment but the revelation in order to be continued can also require some form of organization to perpetuate itself, that is, in a historical sense some form of record is required to pass down the experience of the revelation to others or to preserve it over time.

It is of course a natural cycle where the current religious establishment is questioned and broken from. This is what happens when the person on their path of spiritual growth discovers that the religion they are following doesn't meet where they are growing into, and instead tries to impose itself upon that person to block them and anyone else from questioning them, from questioning their "prophet" which is to question them as teachers of that prophet..

Then what happens is this individual has a new "revelation" which opens the door for them, others like his vision of truth, they follow it as an idea to believe in, and a new religion is formed in the prophet's name, codifying his teaching as the "new truth", which they then impose as the truth on its followers, doing the same as the religion their prophet broke away from. In other words, it's like teens who follow a new trend-setter because they do not want to be like their parents who don't know anything, only to find in later life as they've settled in for the long-haul that they have become their own parents. Everything their parents did they didn't like, they themselves are now doing.

Here's the thing, you cannot pass down the revelation and preserve it. It was that person's experience. I cannot write my experience and subsequent "revelation" about what it means to me and expect anyone else without similar experience to truly understand what it means. If I had students who glommed onto my words, put them into books and teachings, and then taught them to others, the best to hope for is that what they would end up with is a provocation for their own thoughts to find their own path, they use it as a springboard for their own discoveries. But that's not what happens with these prophet-based so-called "revealed" religions. They take the words of their said visionary (prophet) and turn them into the immutable truth for others to believe in and follow. "I believe in the prophet" becomes "I will not question him because that is challenging God".

This does not lead to continual growth. And then when someone so compelled as to continue to reach for God in their own experience of the divine opens themselves sufficiently, despite the risk of challenging their parent religion, they then "see" and are themselves now a "prophet". And then others like the vision of that person who broke the barriers of their current religion into something new, and start teaching his views as the "revealed truth", and the whole cycle begins again, and then again, and then again, and then again.

So you can look at this in different ways as it is an ongoing process and developement.

In the sense I just laid out, sure. But sadly that breaking away from the parent religion by the "prophet" is always a difficult, if not death-defying act. Make no mistake, the religion started up in that new prophet's name will start to do the same thing as the religion their own prophet fought to overcome on his own growth path. This is the danger when one elevates their prophet to position of an oracle of God Almighty. It makes the "believer" completely dependent upon the religion and their views of truth they interpret from their prophet. One does not question lightly the "revealed truth" from the mouth of God to their religion's prophet! Better to just quietly believe and keep following than risk expulsion or death.

Better would be a 'prophet' who guided his students to become prophets themselves, surpassing his own revelation with their own. The best teacher is the one who hopes to produce students who surpass his own understanding and become teachers themselves. To do that, the student must question "revealed truth". Otherwise, the question is settled and they best just shut up and know their place in the system.

 

[1137]

The division is a way for people to try and separate themselves from organized religion. In the end I think that the words are meant to have the same meaning.

 

[Quintessence]

The division is a way for people to try and separate themselves from organized religion. In the end I think that the words are meant to have the same meaning.

They used to. Read a fascinating book about that (among other things) a few years back. The wedge is also somewhat distinctly American.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I've been in rehab with heroin addicts, and dealers, coke whores, thieves, all
manner of low life people that turn the corner and became fine people, fathers, mother,
brothers, sisters, ALL because they relied on a Power greater than them and stopped
addictive behavior.
Sadly I've know a few that got sober and became sober jackasses.

The 12-step system does refer to a "higher power", but there are secular addiction recovery programs that actually get better success rates.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Spirituality is your life guided by the morals which help you function in the world-with others, family, and with self.

No; that's ethics.

 

[jeager106]

The 12-step system does refer to a "higher power", but there are secular addiction recovery programs that actually get better success rates.

Pleeease name those recovery programs as I have a deep personal interest.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Pleeease name those recovery programs as I have a deep personal interest.

Secular Organizations for Sobriety is the group I'm most familiar with:

http://www.sossobriety.org/

 

[jeager106]

The 12-step system does refer to a "higher power", but there are secular addiction recovery programs that actually get better success rates.

Please post stats to back up those claims as I AM interested.
A.A. is FREE by the way. Groups do pass the basket for financial support to pay
rent, electricity, and the always present coffee pot.

Please post information on free and available recovery groups that are self supporting,
non religious and non political?
Spiritual growth counts & is necessary and encouraged.
Religion is for people afraid of going to hell. Recovery is for people that have
been there.
By the way. In spite of my alcohol issues I've NEVER been arrested for anything,
not ever. Never drove under the alcofluence of incahol, or wrecked a car
due to drinking.
I JUST WOULD NOT DO THAT.
I'd buy my hooch and go home with it.

 

[jeager106]

secular addiction recovery programs
Never heard of it. Not saying it does not work but in the info on the web
I see NOTHING about the group that encourages spiritual growth.
Just abstaining interests me not in the least.
Spiritual growth has nothing to do with religion at all.
Sorry to say I've known a bunch of church going "normal" people.
They go into church and the personality under goes a dramatic shift.
They become welcoming, loving, and kind.
The leave the church building and become the @ss^oles they've always
been.
But then church people don't have the red hot poker of addiction calling them
to jails, institutions, and death now do they?
I'll continue to pray to a Power greater than me, keep company with other
recovering people, and stay in alcohol free environments.
A.A. recovery depends upon A.A. unity of purpose.
A.A. groups are the among most accepting people I've ever met.
I don't have any issues with believing in a Power greater than me.
This site is called "Religious Forum" not anti-religious forum tho it makes room
for those not religious at all.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

No; that's ethics.

Spirituality encompasses ethics, philosophy, religion, and all the above. It's not isolated but a word that expresses (or shows our spirit) by our ethics, religion/practice thereof, and what we value, etc. No religious word is isolated. It's all weaved together.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Spirituality encompasses ethics, philosophy, religion, and all the above.

My ethics have nothing to do with spirits. I'd wager good money that any ethical system that was somehow based on spirits probably wouldn't be that ethical.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

My ethics have nothing to do with spirits. I'd wager good money that any ethical system that was somehow based on spirits probably wouldn't be that ethical.

Maybe you call it something different? It doesn't have to be religious. If you value family, that's part of your spirit (who you are). If you value money, that's part of who you are-that's your spirit. What makes you-you. Unless you're an alien I'm sure you have ethics and values that make you, you regardless the names you call it?