Spirit vs matter

[Storm]

I am not referring to religious folks with their homophobic attitudes, racism etc.

Question: do you see the bigotry in that intro?

I am referring to those who keep their minds on the things of the spirit - love, peace, forgiveness, and so on.

Then there are those whose minds only revolve around the things of the world - money, success, status, power. They worship those who have these things, and shun those who have nothing. This is their religion.

Throughout history, we see a battle between these two forces. And although it appears as if the world has an edge, in the end it is only the spirit that triumphs. Violence, slavery, exploitation etc. used to be the norm, they represent crude materialism. But today, non-violence, equality, cooperation - in short, things of the spirit - are becoming more and more relevant even though many people still continue to fight against these values.

Somehow, with or without people's support or knowledge, spirit triumphs over matter, peace over violence, compassion over cruelty, cooperation over competition. And I am glad this is so.

Do you think that's purely the work of atheists?

 

[Music]

Question: do you see the bigotry in that intro?


Do you think that's purely the work of atheists?

What's purely the work of atheists?

 

[Storm]

What's purely the work of atheists?

Everything I quoted. Also, I didn't say that it is, I asked if YOU think it is. Big difference.

 

[Music]

Everything I quoted. Also, I didn't say that it is, I asked if YOU think it is. Big difference.

You mean the good things, such as peace, humanism etc.? If so, it has less to do with theism vs atheism and more to do with spirit vs matter, as the title suggests.

 

[Storm]

You mean the good things, such as peace, humanism etc.? If so, it has less to do with theism vs atheism and more to do with spirit vs matter, as the title suggests.

As you wish.

I'd still like to know if you see the hypocrisy in your opening.

 

[Music]

As you wish.

I'd still like to know if you see the hypocrisy in your opening.

There is no hypocrisy. See, that was easy.

 

[Storm]

There is no hypocrisy. See, that was easy.

Why am I not surprised?

It's only bigotry when other people do it, I suppose.

 

[Quintessence]

That which is born of flesh is flesh. That which is born of spirit is spirit.

Okay? Did you miss the part where I said I'm not a dualist? >_>

I still don't think I can be coherent on this, but I can try.

The first, and to my mind less severe infraction has to do with theological differences. In religions which see the divine as immanent - such as Paganism - there is no clear division between matter and spirit in the first place; sometimes it is absent entirely. Dividing aspects of reality up in the manner of the OP makes no sense, at best. Worse, the way in which aspects have been divvied up shows a clear agenda. It's an agenda that makes sense from a certain theological point of view, but it is offensive to those of us who see the sacred as manifest within the world. All the "bad" things are stuck in the worldly/matter category, which is basically spitting in the face of the immanent divine. There's more that can be said about the demonization of the land/worldly/material, but that probably deserves it's own thread so I won't comment on that further.

The second infraction is more problematic, because it transcends theological belief. Granting that you can make a constructed division between matter and spirit (which I don't believe in, but let's run with it), on what basis are things placed into their respective categories? How is it that all the "nasty" things somehow ended up on the "matter" side? The OP claims things like violence, slavery, exploitation are problems of materialism. Why? Whoever thinks violence is solely something of "matter" hasn't done the time contemplating it's nature. They haven't thought about things like bloodlust, which is a deep-seated emotion with a strongly "spiritual" component to it. Violence, slavery, and exploitation can be every bit as spiritual as non-violence, equality, and cooperation. I see no reason why these oft-demonized characters of humanity need be shunted in the "matter" category instead of the "spirit" one.