kjw47
Well-Known Member
Judas was not one of the 144,000. Who told you that?
Every apostle was one of the 144,000
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Judas was not one of the 144,000. Who told you that?
I understand. But then, they can't say they are no part of the world! It's a lie!
They haven't endured to the end yet so they can't rightly say they are of the 144,000. It's a lie!
How many have died without confessing their lies?
OK. That someone else is wrong does not make you right. That is what I am saying.
Right! But, that they have not stood PROOVES they are not the 144,000! You are using David as an example, but your real teachers say David IS NOT one of the 144,000. Do you not know that? Have you read the Watchtower?
You are not listening. It's not as though I didn't know that, but, boy oh boy, I am just glad that I can laugh about it.
People who Satan can mislead ARE NOT OF THE 144,000.
Judas was of 12, not 144,000.
You know very well that I presented the NWT - your bible version - or maybe you forgot or didn't see them or something.
So, I'll give you, once again, another opportunity to go to your version and directly engage these two texts and give an explanation as to how they relate to your theology.
Psalm 102:24-27
24 I said: “O my God, Do not do away with me in the middle of my life, You whose years span all generations.+25 Long ago you laid the foundations of the earth, And the heavens are the work of your hands.+26 They will perish, but you will remain; Just like a garment they will all wear out. Just like clothing you will replace them, and they will pass away.27 But you are the same, and your years will never end.+
This is relating the eternal and immutable (unchanging) nature of YHWH.
Hebrews 1:8-12
8 But about the Son, he says: “God is your throne+ forever and ever, and the scepter of your Kingdom is the scepter of uprightness.* 9 You loved righteousness, and you hated lawlessness. That is why God, your God, anointed you+ with the oil of exultation more than your companions.”+ 10 And: “At the beginning, O Lord, you laid the foundations of the earth, and the heavens are the works of your hands. 11 They will perish, but you will remain; and just like a garment, they will all wear out, 12 and you will wrap them up just as a cloak, as a garment, and they will be changed. But you are the same, and your years will never come to an end.”+
"about the SON", He (God v.5) speaks throughout these verses that "At the beginning, O Lord, you (the Son) laid the foundations of the earth, and the heavens are the works of your hands. 11 They will perish, but you will remain; and just like a garment, they will all wear out, 12 and you will wrap them up just as a cloak, as a garment, and they will be changed. But you are the same, and your years will never come to an end.”+
Your own NWT demonstrates that the Son (Jesus) is revealed in the New Testament as eternal, immutable YHWH in the Old Testament.
As an aside, Your claim that Michael the Archangel became Jesus is also refuted in the next two verses of your own version:
13 But about which of the angels has he ever said: “Sit at my right hand until I place your enemies as a stool for your feet”?+14 Are they not all spirits for holy service,*+ sent out to minister for those who are going to inherit salvation?
Echoed in Psalm 110 Jehovah declared to my Lord: "Sit at my right hand+Until I place your enemies as a stool for your feet.”+
and
Ps.132: 5 Until I find a place for Jehovah, A fine residence* for the Powerful One of Jacob.”+ 6 Look! We heard about it in Ephʹra·thah;+We found it in the fields of the forest.+ 7 Let us come into his residence;*+Let us bow down at his footstool.+
The logical - Biblical answer to this rhetorical question of verse 13 is of course NONE. Including Michael.
@kjw47 I think you have to agree with me that every one of the 144,000 is a soul who has to "endure to the end".
You have been taught that a person can be one of the144,000 but not endure to the end.
I understand that you say he WAS one of the 144,000 until he proved unfaithful.
But, unfaithfulness IS NOT a sign of any of the 144,000.
Can anyone see that the governing body of Jehovah's Witnesses is ruining minds in the name of goodness?
I said they make sure--the flock is taught every utterance from God--over and over--because they listen to Jesus.
Only in your twisted reasonings. a failure to believe Jesus.
YHVH(Jehovah) did all of it--he did it through Jesus.
John 5:30, Acts 2:22)
Sheol=Hebrew=The grave=Hades-Greek= The grave=Hell-English--- Hell is not where satan is going to. He will be destroyed in the lake of fire.
Instead of personal insults and unsupported assertions step up to the plate, prove me wrong by actually addressing the text, from your version, with a direct, pertinent, reasoned response like honest, rational people do.
The flock trusts that they listen to Jesus. You do not know that they do.I said they make sure--the flock is taught every utterance from God--over and over--because they listen to Jesus.
Just prove it. You should understand that to be one of the 144,000 means that the person has proved faithful. YOU say a person can be of the 144,000 and then not prove faithful.Every apostle was one of the 144,000
I understand anyone can fall. No one of the 144,000 ever does fall. That is what makes them of that group!The bible is clear--The holy spirit bears witness to their spirits that they are of that little flock---- but still any one can fall.
Matthew 24:45 does not name the faithful and discreet slave. It just doesn't!I agree with you here--The teachings of Jesus prove who is who. That is what I go by.
The Bible is clear that Jesus made the way to Jehovah. It DOES NOT say that a person can not be resurrected via the way that Jesus made.The bible is clear--none who died before Jesus died get to enter heaven. Not even John the baptizer
It is not what the Bible says! Please read what the Bible says about the 144,000.Any one can fall--1/3 of Gods angels fell to satan--They know and have seen a gazillion x more truth than any mortal knows. They were made perfect yet could not stand. Every mortal is imperfect with sin built in.