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Species? Kinds? Species? Something?

Discussion in 'The Living World' started by YoursTrue, Jul 17, 2021.

  1. YoursTrue

    YoursTrue We know gravity by happenstance. (Newton)

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    Statement defining evolution, comments from experts here on evolution, please. See what you think of the following statement since I'm looking up concept of evolution. So, first off,

    "What is evolution?
    In biology, evolution is the change in the characteristics of a species over several generations and relies on the process of natural selection. The theory of evolution is based on the idea that all species are related and gradually change over time."

    Let's start there. To recap, the theory of evolution considers all species to be related and gradually change over time. All species.
    What is evolution?.
     
  2. Jimmy

    Jimmy Well-Known Member

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    Evolutions fact.
    It’s processes are theory’s.

    Not that I buy into evolution at all, but in the world of ‘facts’ it’s a fact all day long.
     
    #2 Jimmy, Jul 17, 2021
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2021
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  3. SigurdReginson

    SigurdReginson Grēne Mann
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    As far as I'm aware, this even includes plants - Anything with DNA. A banana shares about 60% of the same DNA that a human has.

    I'm no expert, though, and I could be mistaken. :)

    The only place I've heard the term "kinds" though, is from YECs explaining how animals evolved (a little bit) after Noah's flood. By only allowing a small number of "kinds" of animals on the ark, it would be easier to account for how the ark would fit untold species of animals inside. They were supposed to have evolved into several new types of animals (such as from deer to antelopes and elks) after they were released from the ark when the flood waters went down. This was referred to as microevolution rather than macroevolution, from what I was taught in my Southern Baptist schooling.

    Microevolution - Wikipedia

    "In young Earth creationism and baraminology a central tenet is that evolution can explain diversity in a limited number of created kinds which can interbreed (which they call "microevolution") while the formation of new "kinds" (which they call "macroevolution") is impossible.[50][51] This acceptance of "microevolution" only within a "kind" is also typical of old Earth creationism.[52]

    Scientific organizations such as the American Association for the Advancement of Science describe microevolution as small scale change within species, and macroevolution as the formation of new species, but otherwise not being different from microevolution."
     
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  4. Dan From Smithville

    Dan From Smithville Veteran Member
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    What are you after here?
     
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  5. Brickjectivity

    Brickjectivity Veteran Member
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    Not an expert but thought it might be good to contribute this link to the onezoom project which is working to make all of the known species of animals, plants bugs etc available to see in map format that lays them out with their taxonomic classifications in a huge tree. They arrange all life into a tree like structure.
    About OneZoom

    Starting at the base of the tree 'All Life' there is a spiral with branches, and at the tip are the Eukaryotes, and if you select Eukaryotes that shows most of the life that we are familiar with such as plants and animals. There are numbers on the branches estimating how many different species with identifiable differences there are. They are large numbers, so there large numbers of creatures with different characteristics and shapes; however they have similarities with other creatures that neighbor them on the tree.
     
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  6. exchemist

    exchemist Veteran Member

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    Yes, all species. That’s what the biochemistry, including DNA, seems to indicate.
     
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  7. epronovost

    epronovost Well-Known Member

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    So by that do you mean that evolution by that the fact that current lifeforms have changed from those in the past and are continuing to change is factual but you don't believe they do it via mutation and natural selection as in the modern synthesis theory of evolution?
     
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  8. Jimmy

    Jimmy Well-Known Member

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    I believe we’re evolving very very little during our brief stay on this planet. The rest I don’t.
     
  9. Jimmy

    Jimmy Well-Known Member

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    I’d say that the moder synthesis theory of evolution is a fact too. Sure Why not. I still don’t believe in it though.
     
  10. epronovost

    epronovost Well-Known Member

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    So, in effect, you are declaring yourself insane. You are saying X is a fact, but you don't believe in it. It would be akin to saying the Earth is round, but I don't believe it is. That's basically admitting to being completely delusional. Since I don't think you consider nor admit to being completely insane, what do you mean by "I don't believe in it though"?
     
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  11. Martin

    Martin Spam, wonderful spam (bloody vikings!)

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    "Several generations"? I think it's more like hundreds, or thousands, in the context of geological time.
     
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  12. We Never Know

    We Never Know Well-Known Member

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    Depends on who you are talking to.
    I myself have no problem with the word "kind"..... being a feline is a different kind of species than a canine.
    With that said some hardcore atheist will say kind is meaningless, that its a creationist word.


    kind
    noun
    1. a group of people or things having similar characteristics.
    Which goes back to the feline and canine, they are kind of similar but yet are different kinds of species.

    As for evolution it happens, has been happening and continues to happen.
     
  13. exchemist

    exchemist Veteran Member

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    Dépends on the complexity of the organism.
     
  14. Jimmy

    Jimmy Well-Known Member

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    My beliefs aren’t based in ‘fact’.
    My belief is that our solar system was destroyed/created with people already a part of it in a nano second. Also repeatedly and infinitely.
     
    #14 Jimmy, Jul 18, 2021
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2021
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  15. Jimmy

    Jimmy Well-Known Member

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    Lol
    I believe in a creation event and that alone opens up some pretty ‘crazy’ senarios IMO
     
    #15 Jimmy, Jul 18, 2021
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2021
  16. Jimmy

    Jimmy Well-Known Member

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    I’m not a creationist who supports evolution. I’m not a creationist who believes that God created a void. I believe that if God is going to create something hed put his heart and soul into it and make something worthwhile.

    Well I do support evolution a little bit while we’re here on this planet. we’re probably evolving a little bit I guess. Haha
     
  17. Heyo

    Heyo Well-Known Member

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    The term "species" has its problems. It is more precise than "kind" which can mean anything the YEC using it wants to. But "species" has different definitions in different branches of biology and not all biologists use it consistently.
    That is not because biologists are dumb or lazy but because the concept of distinguishing between species is very complex. The most used criterion in evolutionary biology, the ability to interbreed, is not applicable to single celled life and even in animals it breaks down when looking at ring species.
    (Lets assume populations with slightly different characteristics that makes them distinguishable by optics alone. Subgroup A and B can interbreed and have viable offspring 80% of the time. The same goes for B and C, C and D, D and E and E and F. A can have viable offspring with C 60% of the time, with 40%, with E 20%
    but A and F can't interbreed any more.
    Now we have a situation where any paring of the subgroups results in them being of the same species only A and F are of different species.
    This breaks logic itself as the law of identity doesn't apply here.)
    In conclusion, we shouldn't mock YEC for their inability to define "kind" when we have a problem with "species" ourselves.
     
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  18. Altfish

    Altfish Veteran Member

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    I think the difference is, on the one hand YECs are using the grey areas of 'species' (or kinds as Ham calls them) to discredit evolution.
    Whereas scientists find it an exciting anomaly that needs further explanation and in no way affects the credibility of evolution
     
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  19. Heyo

    Heyo Well-Known Member

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    Yes, and interestingly that was one of the very few cases when I could convince a YEC when I explained the complexity and problems with speciation using ring species.
     
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  20. YoursTrue

    YoursTrue We know gravity by happenstance. (Newton)

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    It does? How complex does it have to get?
     
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