Speaking of virgins ...

[Aquitaine]

First of all they are not "suicide" bombers...They are called Martyrs....

Then who said that they will not go to paradise?!

OMG Haha!

Thanks, Sajdah!

 

[enchanted_one1975]

What do you do if you'r satisfied enough with your current partner(s)?

Do we have the right to return the virgins to Allah, or will we be punished for it?

Even if you are satisfied, having 72 servants around isn't a bad idea. Wait, how did we get from 75 to 72? Is there a shortage that suddenly kicked in?

 

[bp789]

Even if you are satisfied, having 72 servants around isn't a bad idea. Wait, how did we get from 75 to 72? Is there a shortage that suddenly kicked in?

The real number is 72, not 75.

 

[Gharib]

First of all they are not "suicide" bombers...They are called Martyrs....
Then who said that they will not go to paradise?!

i never said that they will go or not go to paradise.

i would not call martyrs those who blow up themselves in markets filled with civilians. we do not fight for our ego and kill civilians be it muslim or non muslim, we fight for what Allah has allowed and in the way he has allowed. as far as i know there are a number of hadith that say suicide is forbiden. and some scholars say that these suicide bombers are in violation of the ahadith.

 

[JMorris]

i never said that they will go or not go to paradise.

i would not call martyrs those who blow up themselves in markets filled with civilians. we do not fight for our ego and kill civilians be it muslim or non muslim, we fight for what Allah has allowed and in the way he has allowed. as far as i know there are a number of hadith that say suicide is forbiden. and some scholars say that these suicide bombers are in violation of the ahadith.

eselam said something that i could agree with............:thud:for the most part

 

[enchanted_one1975]

Ok well I was doing more thinking about this last night while I was working. Assuming that all religions have at least some truth to them, I figure there are 144,000 people that will go to heaven to share 72 virgins. This may not be as wonderful as some of you are hoping for...

 

[MountainHumanist]

It's not virgins.It's white raisins..mistranslation.

 

[Aquitaine]

It's not virgins.It's white raisins..mistranslation.

Why only 72 White Raisins then? Also, who's got the "correct" translation/interpretation? Not that one exists, but still.....

Some say Virgins, some say Wives, some say White Raisins

To be fair though, it's a lot more difficult to convince Men to sacrifice thier lives for your "cause" if the only promise is a bunch of Raisins, but throw in the prospect of eternal sex into the mix, and you have yourself a fanatically loyal army!

 

[angellous_evangellous]

I'm confused. Regarding the virgins that the suicide bombers are supposed to get in 'heaven', is it 75 virgins EACH, or TOTAL?

:biglaugh:

 

[MountainHumanist]

If I recall the article correctly, the 72 number was part of the mistranslations..it could mean a bunch of white raisins or a chilled drink based on white raisins. Doesn't sound so great to us but in a desert culture it was considered a delicacy.

Within the context of surrounding verses, it makes more sense since everything else refers to food.

 

[Aquitaine]

If I recall the article correctly, the 72 number was part of the mistranslations..it could mean a bunch of white raisins or a chilled drink based on white raisins. Doesn't sound so great to us but in a desert culture it was considered a delicacy.

Within the context of surrounding verses, it makes more sense since everything else refers to food.

LOL, well then who interpreted it as "officially" meaning 72 Virgins?

But, also isn't there an Islamic holy text that talks about Virgins in Paradise, being as horny as Female horses during Heat or something?

 

[Sajdah]

i never said that they will go or not go to paradise.

i would not call martyrs those who blow up themselves in markets filled with civilians. we do not fight for our ego and kill civilians be it muslim or non muslim, we fight for what Allah has allowed and in the way he has allowed. as far as i know there are a number of hadith that say suicide is forbiden. and some scholars say that these suicide bombers are in violation of the ahadith.

killing non-combatants by F16 or blowing up the markets is awful crime. I commented on the word "Suicide", it is not suicide...Those Mujahdeen are using their bodies as weapons, because they don't have such modern weapons to fight the terrorism of occupation....At the same time, they have to defend their lands, their families, and our sacred places....They have no other mean to use except for the Martyr operations.

I know that some Scholars are calling those operations "Suicide"...But most of them consider those operations as the greatest form of Jihad.

Martyr operations are not suicide and should not be deemed as unjustifiable means of endangering one's life. Allah says in the Glorious Qura'n: (And spend of your substance in the cause of Allah, and make not your own hands contribute to (your) destruction; but do good; for Allah loveth those who do good) (Al-Baqarah 2: 195).
The verse obviously indicates that failing to spend in Allah's Cause is like casting oneself into ruin. That is the reason behind the revelation of the noble verse. Reviewing the Islamic rule: "Words should be construed as imparting general meanings regardless of their specific occasions", the meaning of the afore-mentioned verse is bound to extend to include any negligence of a religious duty; i.e. forsaking a religious duty entails casting oneself into ruin. The same applies to committing sins.
Therefore, it's quite an abysmal analysis for someone to focus on the afore-mentioned verse through a narrow a perspective, without taking into consideration all relevant points.
Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) strictly forbade suicide and made it clear that anyone who commits suicide would be cast into hell. But in such case suicide means Muslim's killing himself without any lawfully accepted reason or killing himself to escape pain or social problems.
On the other hand, in martyr operations, the Muslim sacrifices his own life for the sake of performing a religious duty, which is jihad against the enemy as scholars say. Accordingly, a Muslim's intention when committing suicide is certainly different from his intention when performing a military operation and dying in the Cause of Almighty Allah. So it is natural that the religious legal status would differ in each case, as Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) says in a hadith: "Actions are but by intention, and every man shall have but that which he intended."
This means that martyr operations are totally different from the forbidden suicide. Concerning the Palestinians, they carry out the operations in showing resistance to the aggression launched by the enemy who has occupied their land, destroyed their houses, desecrated their sacred places and driven about four million of them out of their houses, replacing them with even larger numbers of Jewish settlements......​

Source

 

[Aquitaine]

killing non-combatants by F16 or blowing up the markets is awful crime. I commented on the word "Suicide", it is not suicide...Those Mujahdeen are using their bodies as weapons, because they don't have such modern weapons to fight the terrorism of occupation....At the same time, they have to defend their lands, their families, and our sacred places....They have no other mean to use except for the Martyr operations.

I know that some Scholars are calling those operations "Suicide"...But most of them consider those operations as the greatest form of Jihad.




Source

Oh yes, of course, all those noble suicide bombers detonating bombs in hotels and outside crowded markets full of innocent people, how thier totally misunderstood Freedom Fighters actually trying to liberate the country - just like those Freedom Fighters who throw Acid in girl's faces for attending school.

 

[Sajdah]

Oh yes, of course, all those noble suicide bombers detonating bombs in hotels and outside crowded markets full of innocent people, how thier totally misunderstood Freedom Fighters actually trying to liberate the country - just like those Freedom Fighters who throw Acid in girl's faces for attending school.

So Is it all what concern you? the way innocents were killed?! by bombs, and Acid are awful, but by F16, and nuclear weapons are OK?!

 

[Aquitaine]

So Is it all what concern you? the way innocents were killed?! by bombs, and Acid are awful, but by F16, and nuclear weapons are OK?!

I get the impression, that you get the impression, that I said at some point that killing innocents is okay, providing it's via an expensive toy jet or a bomb that makes a really loud BOOM!

I'm also going to presume, that you presume I'm a G.W. Bush/Blair supporter and that I fully support the invasion and occupation of Iraq and Afghanistan.

Killing innocents is unacceptable, regardless - and practically every week in Iraq or somewhere else in the world there are Muslim suicide bombers who kill innocents, now this isn't a bash at Islam or Muslims, I'm just disagreeing with your romanticized viewpoint that all these Suicide Bombers are "glorious Martyrs" and "Liberators".

They're about as "liberating" as Bush and Blair were to the Iraqi people.

 

[Sajdah]

I get the impression, that you get the impression, that I said at some point that killing innocents is okay, providing it's via an expensive toy jet or a bomb that makes a really loud BOOM!

I'm also going to presume, that you presume I'm a G.W. Bush/Blair supporter and that I fully support the invasion and occupation of Iraq and Afghanistan.

Killing innocents is unacceptable, regardless - and practically every week in Iraq or somewhere else in the world there are Muslim suicide bombers who kill innocents, now this isn't a bash at Islam or Muslims, I'm just disagreeing with your romanticized viewpoint that all these Suicide Bombers are "glorious Martyrs" and "Liberators".

They're about as "liberating" as Bush and Blair were to the Iraqi people.

And if you read my response to brother Eselam very well, you will understand that I oppose killing INNOCENTS (Muslims, or non Muslims)....... Martyr operations are not about targeting innocents....In fact they are targeting combatants, and occupiers..Like what happened in palestine!

 

[enchanted_one1975]

...it could mean a bunch of white raisins or a chilled drink based on white raisins...

I'm pretty sure that either one will make you poop. I hope they have toilets and really soft paper in Heaven. Imagine a virgin seeing you poop in your pants after guzzling white raisin puree.

 

[Aquitaine]

And if you read my response to brother Eselam very well, you will understand that I oppose killing INNOCENTS (Muslims, or non Muslims)....... Martyr operations are not about targeting innocents....In fact they are targeting combatants, and occupiers..Like what happened in palestine!

Except, let's face it: most "Martyrdom operations" are targeting Civilians!

Practically all suicide bombers hold the same faith, and believe they're fulfilling their "duty" as a Martyr. It's not as Romantic or as innocent as you seem to put it: that it's merely a cause of brave, glorious freedom fighters using thier bodies as a force for liberation.

Come on, you have to admit it's incredibly naive to think like that?

If it was such a "glorious" thing to do then your Prophet Mo' would've blown himself up during his lifetime for the "liberation" of the Arabian lands.

 

[Gharib]

killing non-combatants by F16 or blowing up the markets is awful crime. I commented on the word "Suicide", it is not suicide...Those Mujahdeen are using their bodies as weapons, because they don't have such modern weapons to fight the terrorism of occupation....At the same time, they have to defend their lands, their families, and our sacred places....They have no other mean to use except for the Martyr operations.

I know that some Scholars are calling those operations "Suicide"...But most of them consider those operations as the greatest form of Jihad.
Source

looks like i was wrong.

that article was helpfull sister, i now see how it is, Allah does judge us in our intentions and us humans judge one another in our actions, and unfortunately i made a wrong judgement, i mixed the true martyrs with those who kill our innocent brothers and sisters of islam.

jazak allahu khairan sister. may Allah reward you and all those martyrs with jannatul firdaus.

 

[T-Dawg]

So Is it all what concern you? the way innocents were killed?! by bombs, and Acid are awful, but by F16, and nuclear weapons are OK?!

... When did the Americans use nuclear weapons?

As much as I hate Bush's war, I don't recall him ever using nukes...