"Some Feminists are Man-Haters"

[Sunstone]

Funny how "Some feminists are man-hatters" keeps coming up in conversations about feminism, even when the topic is not specifically about those relatively few feminists who are indeed man-hatters. Funny, because the same people who bring up the point are quite often not the sort of people to say things like, "Some Progressives beat their dogs" or "Some Conservatives are drunkards" in general conversations about Progressives or Conservatives, for instance.

It would be one thing if the point that "some feminists are man-hatters" only came up in conversations specifically about feminist man-hatters, but why does it come up so frequently in just about any conversation about feminism?

Do you think it's a clever slur? Why or why not?

Do you think there's a bit of a double standard here in the sense that all feminists, apparently, are expected to be decent people, but not all Progressives, Conservatives, etc? Why or why not?

What do you think?

 

[Revoltingest]

Do you think there's a bit of a double standard here in the sense that all feminists, apparently, are expected to be decent people, but not all Progressives, Conservatives, etc? Why or why not?

I haven't seen this expectation of feminists being uniformly exemplary.

 

[Sunstone]

I haven't seen this expectation of feminists being uniformly exemplary.

It seems implied in the notion that it's worth mentioning some aren't.

 

[Revoltingest]

It seems implied in the notion that it's worth mentioning some aren't.

I wouldn't infer that.
People are always talking about the nastier elements in conservatism, liberalism,
MRA, Democrats, Republicans, egalitarians, Arabs, Muslims, Xians, etc, etc.
Certainly, there's no expectation that they're all uniformly decent folk.

 

[Buttercup]

Funny how "Some feminists are man-hatters" keeps coming up in conversations about feminism, even when the topic is not specifically about those relatively few feminists who are indeed man-hatters. Funny, because the same people who bring up the point are quite often not the sort of people to say things like, "Some Progressives beat their dogs" or "Some Conservatives are drunkards" in conversations about Progressives or Conservatives, for instance.

It would be one thing if the point that "some feminists are man-hatters" only came up in conversations specifically about feminist man-hatters, but why does it come up so frequently in just about any conversation about feminism?

Do you think it's a clever slur? Why or why not?

Do you think there's a bit of a double standard here in the sense that all feminists, apparently, are expected to be decent people, but not all Progressives, Conservatives, etc? Why or why not?

What do you think?

This calling feminists "man haters" is rooted in the same type of societal pressure women have put up with for ages when we don't act sweet and pleasant all the time. Women get accused of being *****y, man haters, unpleasant, touchy or troublesome when we don't conform to the lingering effects of a patriarchal society. We aren't acting they way "we should". I see this name calling of "man haters" in largely the same frame of reference.

 

[Sunstone]

People are always talking about the nastier elements in conservatism, liberalism, MRA, Democrats, Republicans, egalitarians, Arabs, Muslims, Xians, etc, etc. Certainly, there's no expectation that they're all uniformly decent folk.

Yes, but with few exceptions (such as Muslims, perhaps), people do not tend to interject some truly equivalent reference to how bad a tiny minority of those groups are in virtually any general discussion of them. If they're talking about how bad Democrats are, for instance, it's most often because the conversation is focused on how bad Democrats are. Yet I have observed that with feminists and feminism, the conversation can be about something having little or nothing to do with man-haters, yet a few people almost always feel it's necessary to point out that some feminists are man-haters.

Start a thread here on feminism and the equal rights amendment. See how long it goes before someone mentions that "some feminists are man-haters".

But let's go further that. Let's assume you're actually right. Even if it were true that people treat others just as frequently as they do feminists to the same clever slurs, that obviously would not make those slurs any less slurs.

 

[Sunstone]

This calling feminists "man haters" is rooted in the same type of societal pressure women have put up with for ages when we don't act sweet and pleasant all the time. Women get accused of being *****y, man haters, unpleasant, touchy or troublesome when we don't conform to the lingering effects of a patriarchal society. We aren't acting they way "we should". I see this name calling of "man haters" in largely the same frame of reference.

Very insightful, I think.

 

[Revoltingest]

Yes, but with few exceptions (such as Muslims, perhaps), people do not tend to interject some truly equivalent reference to how bad a tiny minority of those groups are in virtually any general discussion of them. If they're talking about how bad Democrats are, for instance, it's most often because the conversation is focused on how bad Democrats are. Yet I have observed that with feminists and feminism, the conversation can be about something having little or nothing to do with man-haters, yet a few people almost always feel it's necessary to point out that some feminists are man-haters.
Start a thread here on feminism and the equal rights amendment. See how long it goes before someone mentions that "some feminists are man-haters".
But let's go further that. Let's assume you're actually right. Even if it were true that people treat others just as frequently as they do feminists to the same clever slurs, that obviously would not make those slurs any less slurs.

If anything, feminists fare better here on RF than conservatives, Republicans (not the same thing), Muslims, & MRAs (the worst of the lot).
Start a thread on MRA or why one isn't a feminist....see how quickly one is called a "misogynist".

 

[Sunstone]

If anything, feminists fare better here on RF than conservatives, Republicans (not the same thing), Muslims, & MRAs (the worst of the lot).

That's your opinion. We happen to disagree. But what matters it if feminists actually did fare better on RF? RF is not the world.

 

[Revoltingest]

That's your opinion. We happen to disagree. But what matters it if feminists actually did fare better on RF? RF is not the world.

I mistakenly thought the OP was about things here at RF, so I addressed this venue.
But regarding discussions elsewhere, it generally appears to be much of the same.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

This calling feminists "man haters" is rooted in the same type of societal pressure women have put up with for ages when we don't act sweet and pleasant all the time. Women get accused of being *****y, man haters, unpleasant, touchy or troublesome when we don't conform to the lingering effects of a patriarchal society. We aren't acting they way "we should". I see this name calling of "man haters" in largely the same frame of reference.

Don't forget emotional, irrational, and hormonal. Because men are never emotional, irrational, or hormonal. Or at least are only those things "within reason."



Anyway, I hold the same opinion that you do. Feminists are expected to pass a litmus test of accountability for crimes against them and full embracing inclusion of the people who despise them before they are considered marginally acceptable by it's harshest critics. If feminists speak up against this litmus test, or call it out for the vile and complete bull**** that it is, the pushback commences. Tale as old as time.

 

[columbus]

Start a thread here on feminism and the equal rights amendment. See how long it goes before someone mentions that "some feminists are man-haters".

That is an easy fix. You start it in the Feminist Only DIR. Then you give out infractions to people who are not feminists.
Like the "Most Men Are Closet Misogynists" thread. I did not post in it because I am not a feminist. I did have an opinion. But I am not allowed to post there.
Tom

 

[MysticSang'ha]

Yes, but with few exceptions (such as Muslims, perhaps), people do not tend to interject some truly equivalent reference to how bad a tiny minority of those groups are in virtually any general discussion of them. If they're talking about how bad Democrats are, for instance, it's most often because the conversation is focused on how bad Democrats are. Yet I have observed that with feminists and feminism, the conversation can be about something having little or nothing to do with man-haters, yet a few people almost always feel it's necessary to point out that some feminists are man-haters.

Start a thread here on feminism and the equal rights amendment. See how long it goes before someone mentions that "some feminists are man-haters".

But let's go further that. Let's assume you're actually right. Even if it were true that people treat others just as frequently as they do feminists to the same clever slurs, that obviously would not make those slurs any less slurs.

That's why I like the newest comments game of #inbefore (feminism-bashing-rhetoric).

It never fails that any single topic about women's rights or women's issues becomes derailed into something about why feminism sucks. They can't help it. No other solution for women's issues except to point out that feminism sucks and what women are complaining about doesn't actually exist.

The #inbefore game and the Derailment Bingo game made these typical conversations less depressing.

 

[Sunstone]

That is an easy fix. You start it in the Feminist Only DIR. Then you give out infractions to people who are not feminists.
Like the "Most Men Are Closet Misogynists" thread. I did not post in it because I am not a feminist. I did have an opinion. But I am not allowed to post there.
Tom

I put this thread in debates precisely so it could be debated. If you want to instead debate your gripe about DIRs, please start a new thread. There have been at least a dozen times when I've wanted to debate something posted in the men's issues forum, but I don't complain about it -- and that's not even a DIR.

 

[columbus]

I put this thread in debates precisely so it could be debated.

Have a nice day
Tom

 

[BSM1]

Just a minor point but in your post you say some feminists are"man-hatters". Does this mean they put hats on men? Or should this say "man-haters"? Or maybe "mad-hatters"? I'm sure there are "mad-hatter" feminists but everyone I have seen have been very grounded and sensible *cough*.

 

[Sunstone]

Just a minor point but in your post you say some feminists are"man-hatters". Does this mean they put hats on men? Or should this say "man-haters"? Or maybe "mad-hatters"? I'm sure there are "mad-hatter" feminists but everyone I have seen have been very grounded and sensible *cough*.

ROFL! I guess I can't pull your hat over your eyes.

 

[Buttercup]

On another note, we still have so much work to do toward empowering women to believe they can do a job as well as a man. We've made tremendous advances in that realm in the last 30 years but then every once in awhile you hear something like what my 78 year old mother said last weekend. We were discussing the qualifications of the presidential contenders and she said, "I consider myself a feminist but I can't imagine a woman handling the job of president of the United States as well as a man." Needless to say, we had a long talk.

Most traditional Christian women think a man should lead the country and never a woman. Recently, a Christian female relative said "I'm a feminist but I think men should hold the power positions in our country. The bible says women are to be submissive to men, in general. God has his reasons." When you live in a country where a large percentage of men and women think along those lines, there's still a long road ahead.

 

[Parsimony]

Recently, a Christian female relative said "I'm a feminist but I think men should hold the power positions in our country. The bible says women are to be submissive to men, in general. God has his reasons." When you live in a country where a large percentage of men and women think along those lines, there's still a long road ahead.

So she's a feminist, but she doesn't think women should have all the same rights as men? Does she know what "feminism" even means?

 

[Taylor Seraphim]

Some feminist are sexist against men, but not all of us are.

Honestly I fell the political stereotypes have a bit more truth to them.