The objective truth is the best available information about the world external to the self. It's never absolute, but neither is anything else.
-
Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:- Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
- Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
- Access to private conversations with other members.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!
So why are you not a .......?
- Thread starter Marcion
- Start date
firedragon
Veteran Member
I am not a Christian because Jesus was a man to me, while they deify him. It sounds oxymoron. A circular rectangle.
TagliatelliMonster
Veteran Member
I'm an atheist, which is to say - I'm not any kind of theist, because all of theism involves superstition and what-I-can-only-call magic.
Also, theistic belief systems tend to consider "faith" to be a virtue.
I don't. I consider it the opposite. I consider it a "sin" (pun intended).
To me "faith" is gullibility.
Gullibility is not a good thing.
So any idea that requires "faith" to be believed, is a huge red flag for me.
Only a bad salesman, who doesn't even really believe in the product he's trying to sell, requires the argument of "you just gotta believe me!".
Well, sorry - I don't do "just believe".
TagliatelliMonster
Veteran Member
I strongly, strongly, strongly disagree with that when it is said in such general terms. That statement needs a whole bunch of qualifiers.
Let's go all Godwin here and take the worldview of the nazi's.
I'ld say that any path that respects the worldview of the nazi's, is not worthy of any respect itself nor does it have good value or reason.
The bottom line is that a "worldview" doesn't get to have respect by default. Not all views are worthy of respects. And it's disturbingly easy to come up with worldviews that don't deserve any respect and which only deserve ridicule and opposition.
Not just religion.
Fanaticism and extremism are never good things, as they lead to dogmatic thinking and closed mindedness.
Colt
Well-Known Member
I was born into Christianity and slowly became a disciple of the original pre-cross gospel of the kingdom wherein faith is the only requirement for salvation. I can learn from all faiths.
Brian2
Veteran Member
No no, Jesus was God first and then became a man.
firedragon
Veteran Member
Very good. Thanks.
What don't I like about various religions, and what stops me from believing in any?
Probably the obvious ones for many, and not specific to any particular religion:
* No evidence that convinces me of there being a God or anything spiritual, hence why would I even inspect or follow a faith path? Apart from the fact that I don't see 'the Hand of God' at work here on Earth or elsewhere, I also do not see anything that affirms the beliefs of any particular religious belief as being 'the correct belief', and this conclusion comes from a variety of different factors - as explained elsewhere - so more an overall impression (and probability basis) for non-belief.
* The reliance on some textual material, so obviously written for the times then rather than for all time, and which then often becomes a drag on human progress.
* The usual claims, expropriating morality as being the sole province of their religion, and originating in such.
* Discrimination (or worse) against various others (LGBT+, females, children - via indoctrination, non-believers, etc.).
* Dogmatic attitudes being inbuilt (this faith is 'the True Faith') all too often, and lack of humility - the chances of this belief being correct over so many others.
* The effects on attitudes to our being in control of our lives rather than 'preordained', in 'God's Hands', and such. No evidence that prayer works, for example.
* The 'sanctification' of human life over all other life - thus often allowing humans to abuse other life as we see fit, or in various abortion or euthanasia issues. And often the belief that we are not just part of life as all other life, not being primates for example, and that the ToE is not essentially the best explanation we have.
* The silly bits (to me) of dogma (circumcision, reciting verses - much like indoctrination so as to keep the faithful on track).
* The effects of any 'after-life' beliefs (often promoting suicide attacks, not fighting to survive, or believing some reward will ensure for any behaviour rather than acting because one believes it is just moral to do so).
* The incessant 'predictions' (world ending - whenever, those destined for Hell or whatever punishments).
* The deification of any 'prophets' such that death can come from some perceived slight to any, or for other blasphemies. And opposed to this, the servitude (even slavery) that is often expected to be a 'true believer'.
* The inevitable intolerance and conflicts (even deaths) because hardly anything rises to be so important to some as faith so as to fight over, apart from nationality.
* And lastly, the arrogance of so many believers, despite the evidence of so many other similar beliefs, and which no doubt endears them to none but those of the same faith. But then the very belief systems often promotes and/or demands such of them.
Apart from that, I have no quarrel with any particular believer as long as they don't harm others because of their beliefs and don't get in the way of humans advancing as a species - which will unfortunately conflict with many, given that we all too often don't agree what 'advancing' means.
Probably the obvious ones for many, and not specific to any particular religion:
* No evidence that convinces me of there being a God or anything spiritual, hence why would I even inspect or follow a faith path? Apart from the fact that I don't see 'the Hand of God' at work here on Earth or elsewhere, I also do not see anything that affirms the beliefs of any particular religious belief as being 'the correct belief', and this conclusion comes from a variety of different factors - as explained elsewhere - so more an overall impression (and probability basis) for non-belief.
* The reliance on some textual material, so obviously written for the times then rather than for all time, and which then often becomes a drag on human progress.
* The usual claims, expropriating morality as being the sole province of their religion, and originating in such.
* Discrimination (or worse) against various others (LGBT+, females, children - via indoctrination, non-believers, etc.).
* Dogmatic attitudes being inbuilt (this faith is 'the True Faith') all too often, and lack of humility - the chances of this belief being correct over so many others.
* The effects on attitudes to our being in control of our lives rather than 'preordained', in 'God's Hands', and such. No evidence that prayer works, for example.
* The 'sanctification' of human life over all other life - thus often allowing humans to abuse other life as we see fit, or in various abortion or euthanasia issues. And often the belief that we are not just part of life as all other life, not being primates for example, and that the ToE is not essentially the best explanation we have.
* The silly bits (to me) of dogma (circumcision, reciting verses - much like indoctrination so as to keep the faithful on track).
* The effects of any 'after-life' beliefs (often promoting suicide attacks, not fighting to survive, or believing some reward will ensure for any behaviour rather than acting because one believes it is just moral to do so).
* The incessant 'predictions' (world ending - whenever, those destined for Hell or whatever punishments).
* The deification of any 'prophets' such that death can come from some perceived slight to any, or for other blasphemies. And opposed to this, the servitude (even slavery) that is often expected to be a 'true believer'.
* The inevitable intolerance and conflicts (even deaths) because hardly anything rises to be so important to some as faith so as to fight over, apart from nationality.
* And lastly, the arrogance of so many believers, despite the evidence of so many other similar beliefs, and which no doubt endears them to none but those of the same faith. But then the very belief systems often promotes and/or demands such of them.
Apart from that, I have no quarrel with any particular believer as long as they don't harm others because of their beliefs and don't get in the way of humans advancing as a species - which will unfortunately conflict with many, given that we all too often don't agree what 'advancing' means.
As a child I developed some concepts that later would hinder joining certain religions.
- The idea that a single person knew more about vague stuff that anyone else didn't make sense to me. I understood how a mechanic could fix the tractor better than Dad, or how a doctor had training, but as to some individual understanding life so much better than anyone else that others would listen, nah, that didn't make sense. Later I learned that supposedly God worked through that person. That didn't make sense at all.
- The idea that a certain day was your birthday, or some days were special, made no sense. The sun came up every day, fish could be caught any day of the week, the cows had to be milked every day. When others did nothing on that day, it was puzzling. I wondered, as a kid, if their cows starved.
- The idea that a book contained everything you need to know about life was puzzling. I watched people, and learned who to avoid, who was smart, which teachers had a clue, etc. How could a book help me with my own observations?
- Life was about having fun. Building a treehouse, or playing ball seemed a better more useful activity.
- If there was a God, why did he let my uncle die tragically, whey did he let my pets die? Why did he let Biafra happen?
- Why were 'religious' kids the most promiscuous at my high school?
- Why were the religious neighbours so angry all the time?
- The idea that a single person knew more about vague stuff that anyone else didn't make sense to me. I understood how a mechanic could fix the tractor better than Dad, or how a doctor had training, but as to some individual understanding life so much better than anyone else that others would listen, nah, that didn't make sense. Later I learned that supposedly God worked through that person. That didn't make sense at all.
- The idea that a certain day was your birthday, or some days were special, made no sense. The sun came up every day, fish could be caught any day of the week, the cows had to be milked every day. When others did nothing on that day, it was puzzling. I wondered, as a kid, if their cows starved.
- The idea that a book contained everything you need to know about life was puzzling. I watched people, and learned who to avoid, who was smart, which teachers had a clue, etc. How could a book help me with my own observations?
- Life was about having fun. Building a treehouse, or playing ball seemed a better more useful activity.
- If there was a God, why did he let my uncle die tragically, whey did he let my pets die? Why did he let Biafra happen?
- Why were 'religious' kids the most promiscuous at my high school?
- Why were the religious neighbours so angry all the time?
Last edited:
I don't think I could join:
* Any path or religion where males are held in higher esteem than ladies
* Any path or religion that forces me to accept irrational practices or beliefs by using or imposing dogma's
* Any path or religion where the theoretical (beliefs) are more important than actual spiritual development
* Any path or religion where spiritual practices are not sufficiently balanced by social service
* Any path or religion that sanctions cruelty to animals
* Any path or religion where males are held in higher esteem than ladies
* Any path or religion that forces me to accept irrational practices or beliefs by using or imposing dogma's
* Any path or religion where the theoretical (beliefs) are more important than actual spiritual development
* Any path or religion where spiritual practices are not sufficiently balanced by social service
* Any path or religion that sanctions cruelty to animals
eldritchsleep
Member
I am not a theist because I am unconvinced that deities exists. I have never heard a definition for god(s) that I believe to be true. I also am under the impression that most definitions for any kind of meaningful god are contradictory to the Laws of Thought and Logic and therefore, impossible and incapable of being true. In that regard, I am more anti-theistic than just atheistic.
I actively disbelieve the Bible and its claims to be true due to scientific inaccuracies, failed prophecies, contradictions, and immoral laws and this also holds true for all religious texts that I have read. The possible exception to this being the Tao De Ching which I have respect for philosophically but reject as being anything more than interesting philosophy but I find the concept of the Tao to be equally impossible as anything tangible or real. Anything that falls within the category of unfalsifiable I simply do not entertain or care about because there is no way to know and therefore they have no impact on my life.
Aupmanyav
Be your own guru
I am an atheist advaitist Hindu. Why I am not any other is because of these reasons:
Jew, Christian, Muslim, Ismaili, LDS, Bahai, Ahmadiyya: Insistence on One God and his assorted messengers, no evidence.
Jain: False karma beliefs, not practical, they think even suicide is the way to deliverance (Santhara).
Tantra: Superstition, dominated by charlatans.
Buddhist: Bars contemplation on many things, too practical.
The respect should be genuine, as Indian religions have for each other, and not fake for their own benefit. Do you mean that a religions whose followers refuse to accept your religion are fanatical and extremists?
Last edited: