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So why are you not a .......?

danieldemol

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
If one wants two people to learn from each other, or get along, or reach common ground, one does not invite them to express their dislikes for each other.
Based on a faulty assumption. One can like a person without liking their religion, and the same goes for disliking - it is independent of religion.

As for your comparison to wives, if someone else's wife was causing harm to you or other folks it would be perfectly valid to say the faults of their wife, and even moreso for their religion.

My suggestion - don't hold your religion so close to your heart that you can't see when it is harming others.

Back to the OP - Because none of them are a good fit for me. Therefore I stick to the spiritual but not religious crowd.
 

Irate State

Äkta människor
I don't like the Great Ju Ju under the sea: too wet, cold, dark and crushing.
Almost the same for the Space Teapot.

All hail TFSM.
 

danieldemol

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
I will hold my religion so close as to blind me to all other considerations
Enough said really, although I seem to remember the traditional Jesus is said to have said something about what happens when the blind lead the blind, so it certainly is an ironic position to hold
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
You're inviting forum members to announce the religions they don't like, and then announce whatever criticisms they can come up with w.r.t. those religions. It is basically an invitation to members to spill whatever hate they have in their guts.

You may have couched your post in diplomatic, "reasonable" terminology, but nevertheless what you're doing is vile. It is like asking people to name girls they wouldn't want to marry, and list for these girls what's bad about them.

Have you no sense of dignity? (That's a rhetorical question.) Ask people to speak for what they believe in, don't encourage them to put their dislike of the beliefs of others on display.

As for naming yourself Marcion, what a load of crock. Marcion was a wise man (regardless of whether one agrees with his theology), and certainly would not have stooped to such underhand tactics as you are doing.

P.S. In the interest of disclosure, I hereby announce that I have reported your post.
After so many years, this subject is the most interesting, thought provoking, insightful, awake, conscious, discerning, perceptive, instinctual, congenital post that ever was on this forum and you complain imo. That makes me sad. I think that posting as you did is insulting to @Marcion.
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
I was born into Christianity. I believe the major premise of it is love.

There is love in other religions.

I'm lazy.

Leave well enough alone, I say!
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
I tend to find that nothing of a "spiritual" nature appeals to me - outside of something like taking in a nice sunset, or contemplating the roots of existence. I don't, personally, consider those items to be of a "spiritual" nature, but I know some do. Otherwise, anything supernatural, anything that supposedly exists outside of the reality we inhabit that therefore can't be observed, anything that tries to tap into hidden, unexplainable "power" to accomplish - I find it all to be rubbish, and a terrible waste of time except perhaps as entertaining fiction. If any of it could be evidenced in a reproducible, intersubjectively shareable way - well... that'd be amazing! Holy crap... it would be revolutionary. The fact that such supposed "revolutions" have only been fizzling out more and more quickly as they arise in our "information age" is obviously very telling.
Beautiful art! I think that I understand! If I was a publisher I might wish to publish that.
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Certainly not the former, and only a bit of the latter. Jesus' sayings can be of value to anyone. But I was just playing tit-for-tat in response to your observation that my position was "ironic". I'm childish that way. (And various other ways.)

You know, we can keep this up all night (though given my tender age my bedtime is approaching.) Anyway, I'm certainly not to proud to bicker endlessly. You? Here goes:

No, actually you can't. You believe this because the modern world (society, education, "reasonableness", etc.) has pounded this notion into your head, i.e. the notion that religions can be treated as opinions, or hobbies, or political alignments, and that therefore you can "like the man while disliking his religion". Only those who are not passionate about religion can be this way. Whoever cherishes his religion in his heart, cannot be friends with those who point out its flaws. Sure, in the interest of "civil relations" they may smile and continue to "deal" with you in a neigborly fashion, but if a man has a heart for his religion, he will never let those who criticize it come close. Again, it is no different from commenting on his wife: maybe he'll tolerate it, but he'll never again consider you a true friend.
Very interesting!
 

danieldemol

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Whoever cherishes his religion in his heart, cannot be friends with those who point out its flaws.
Spoken like a true fanatic. I can be true friends to those who dont like my beliefs. Perhaps you are just presenting an argument unwittingly that holding a religion too close to one's heart is a hindrance to being a loving friendly person.

And I guess that's where we part ways, because to me religion which is the cause of enmity and estrangement is not fit to be followed.
 

A Vestigial Mote

Well-Known Member
No, actually you can't. You believe this because the modern world (society, education, "reasonableness", etc.) has pounded this notion into your head, i.e. the notion that religions can be treated as opinions, or hobbies, or political alignments, and that therefore you can "like the man while disliking his religion". Only those who are not passionate about religion can be this way. Whoever cherishes his religion in his heart, cannot be friends with those who point out its flaws. Sure, in the interest of "civil relations" they may smile and continue to "deal" with you in a neigborly fashion, but if a man has a heart for his religion, he will never let those who criticize it come close. Again, it is no different from commenting on his wife: maybe he'll tolerate it, but he'll never again consider you a true friend.
I have (anecdotal) evidence that goes against your assumptions here.

There is a man who, at times, has been homeless in the town where I live. My wife and I once took him Thanksgiving dinner, and he stopped us once in the street while walking our dog, asked me if I "knew Jesus" and when I stated that I did not, and didn't need to, he ended up telling me that if I studied The Bible, I'd come to know "how vile [|] really [am]."

This man was one day sitting on the steps of a building he tends to frequent, and as I passed by, he noticed me (but did not recognize me) as I tend to take a lot of walks around town in my spare time. He asked me this: "I have seen you out walking alone quite often. Like me, are you short on friends?" And I could tell that was a sort of imploring in his voice. He wanted a friend. So we walked, and talked. He was still staunchly Christian, and I a staunch and unforgiving atheist. And yet we both managed to appreciate the other for our candor. For the ability of our conversation to jump directly into "the good stuff."

We debate, and get on one another's nerves, and at times seem heated, but very often agree with one another on important matters, and laugh at one another's jokes and cajoles. I consider him a friend, and I have evidence that he feels the same toward me. He seeks me out when walking, and laments when it has been too long since he has seen me, and tells me (sincerely) that he wishes our conversation could go longer when it is time to part. How is this, then, when I very nearly berate him for his willingness to believe things without evidence? When I, time and again, deliver him words of the most egregious sorts of blasphemy (such as telling him, one day, that I figure that Satan probably fears me, because I simply don't believe in him, or, therefore, any possibility of his "influence" - that if everyone felt like I did, then Satan would find himself without a single hold on the world anywhere - and then I turned this same idea toward God, positing God's fear of my disposition as the reason He doesn't interact with me).

Just the other night, he accepted an invitation to eat dinner with my family, and often when we meet, offers me small gifts - like some treat he likes to partake of. Which has actually become a bit of a running sentiment between us. I have given him tamarind candy, vegan chocolate chip cookies that taste like cookie dough, candied ginger, gourmet fruit slice candies, guava nectar, and he has proffered me a host of items as well. And yet - from your descriptions, shouldn't this man hold some lasting grudge against me, and I against him? Why is it I feel I can trust him, and that if I were in some form of trouble he could help me with, my asking would be welcomed? How is that, do you think?
 
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robocop (actually)

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Most people on this forum will have some ideas abouth the faiths, religions or paths they feel less attracted to.

Perhaps there are some aspects, some practices, doctrines of a path or just a general feeling that makes that you would not want to join that path or religion, at least not for the time being.

I'm curious about what those reasons are.
So why are you not a christian or a muslim or a bahai or an atheist or a buddhist, a hindu , a witch or a tantra-yogi or a .......?
What are the aspects or impressions that make you feel less attracted to them?
I will say I've always believed you can only know how much you believe in something inasmuch as you know why you don't believe in the opposite.
 

Clara Tea

Well-Known Member
Paraphrasing (shorter version of your question) "why did you choose your religion and not another?"

Irish Catholics might cringe at their son marrying out of their religion (Roman Catholic).

Religion segregates and isolates.

Yet all Christians (for example Mormons) believe in Christ and the same God. (I can imagine other Christians cringing at the mention of Mormons).

Many theists feel blessed by God to have been born to parents with the ONLY true religion (all others are deemed heathen, Pagan, or evil). In their view, God revealed his presence only to a small group of people in the Middle East (not to all of his children). Many feel that the "Old Time Religion" was good enough for grandpa, good enough for father, and good enough for me.

Pioneers often settled in the boonies, surrounded by Native Americans, and often were cut off of their own religion. They had to either settle for the religion endemic to the region, or go without spiritual guidance all together. They might have attended the newly formed Methodist church, or Lutheran church, because, though it was different, they felt that it was close enough to their own religion that they would tolerate it (barely). Over the years, it grew on them, and their kids grew up with it, so they dearly loved their church and their community.

To God, all humans are his children, and all presumably, deeply loved. One wonders why one suffers with cancer and predation (and all of the pain associated with them).

If this is so, then the ancient native Hawaiians, who believed in a volcano God, would also have to be a child of God. Why would God not send a message to all of his children and let his presence be known? Are Hawaiians wrong? They practiced human sacrifice, murdering newborns with blemishes (mark of the devil). But, when one lives on an isolated island, and mates with close relatives (many kings married their sisters), one must be ever vigilant against mutations, and ritual sacrifices of the deformed kept their genome pure. Perhaps, for the Hawaiians, their form of God's law worked, and other forms of God's law would not have? Maybe "thou shalt not kill" didn't apply to the Hawaiians, under all circumstances? I can't blame Hawaiians for worshiping a powerful flame and molten rock spewing God that shakes the earth.

The prevalence of religion around the world is proof that mankind has an innate need for a God (father figure who will come to one's rescue and guide one's actions, and ultimately find room in eternal paradise (perhaps with 72 virgins if you murder his enemies).

Why would a God have to rely on a mere human to murder? Isn't God, the all powerful, the creator of the universe, powerful enough to do his own murdering? Couldn't God, with the wave of his hand, wipe out whole armies? Why would God demand that his own son (Jesus) be horribly tortured to death before he relents to pardon humans for their sins? Wouldn't that make God a cruel God? Who would want to spend eternity right next to a cruel God? If God is evil, and people worship God merely because he is powerful, why not worship Satan instead?

While many theists consider their counterparts Pagan (and often call them that to their faces), their counterparts likewise consider them to be Pagan.

Wouldn't it be a better world if we all treated each other as brothers and sisters (all God's children)?

If God taught rules to other cultures and religions, maybe it is a matter of studying other religions to piece together threads of commonality of all religions? God had initially scrambled languages at the Tower of Babel, and strewn people to far-flung locations. Could it be that God wants us to find peace and brotherhood in our hearts, overcome language barriers, overcome distance barriers, and seek a common religion with all of his children? Maybe Babel was a test, to see if mankind has the capacity to get along on earth, to make sure that mankind could get along in heaven, as well?
 

blü 2

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Most people on this forum will have some ideas abouth the faiths, religions or paths they feel less attracted to.

Perhaps there are some aspects, some practices, doctrines of a path or just a general feeling that makes that you would not want to join that path or religion, at least not for the time being.

I'm curious about what those reasons are.
So why are you not a christian or a muslim or a bahai or an atheist or a buddhist, a hindu , a witch or a tantra-yogi or a .......?
What are the aspects or impressions that make you feel less attracted to them?
My own view is that fundamentalism (in any religion, not just Christianity) should only be lawful when done between consenting adults in private. It should never be taught to children. Antiscience is good neither for the individual nor society as a whole.

The objective truth will set you free.
 

Salty Booger

Royal Crown Cola (RC)
I'm curious about what those reasons are.
So why are you not a christian or a muslim or a bahai or an atheist or a buddhist, a hindu , a witch or a tantra-yogi or a .......?
What are the aspects or impressions that make you feel less attracted to them?
I have been spending good time trying to shelve personal identities. I am not opposed to others holding onto theirs, it just seems pointless in my case. :)
 

Amandi

Member
I would say due to lack of knowledge and/or experience for most religions. For Christianity, Judaism, and Islam, it is lack of belief in at least some of their teachings.
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
So why are you not a christian or a muslim or a bahai or an atheist or a buddhist, a hindu , a witch or a tantra-yogi or a .......?
What are the aspects or impressions that make you feel less attracted to them?

Interesting question. I was raised as a Christian.....or I thought I was until I started studying the Bible rather than religion. This was after I had already checked out a variety of other faiths. What let them down for me was the idolatry.....any religion that used images (especially weird ones that combined animals and humans) was out of the picture for me. But then I was always aware that the 10 Commandments were sacrosanct. Idolatry was forbidden in Abrahamic faith.

Also, any religion that used mindless repetition and ritual was also out of my comfort zone....I wanted a faith that appealed to my logic....one I could sink my teeth into without running into dead ends or the brick walls of blind faith. When I found it, I knew I was "home". Every question was answered to my satisfaction.

So when I converse with others about my faith I figure that I can do what Jesus did....offer it, but not force it.
I can answer questions...but I can't make anyone believe me. If God gave me that choice, then the least I can do is give it to others and accept their choice even if I believe it is wrong.

I like that saying..."I may not believe what you say, but I will defend your right to say it."

We all have choices and some of us will make the right ones....we just have to hope that it is us at the end of the day. I don't believe we will know any sooner because we are all being caught in the act of being our true selves.
 

Dawnofhope

Non-Proselytizing Baha'i
Staff member
Premium Member
Most people on this forum will have some ideas abouth the faiths, religions or paths they feel less attracted to.

Perhaps there are some aspects, some practices, doctrines of a path or just a general feeling that makes that you would not want to join that path or religion, at least not for the time being.

I'm curious about what those reasons are.
So why are you not a christian or a muslim or a bahai or an atheist or a buddhist, a hindu , a witch or a tantra-yogi or a .......?
What are the aspects or impressions that make you feel less attracted to them?

Any path that disrespects others who hold different worldviews, doesn't value courtesy or reason. Any religion that promotes fanaticism and extremism.
 
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