Smooth transition?

[King Phenomenon]

Our transition to other forms of energy after oil and coal runs out. Or will it be chaotic and involve a lot of loss of life? Or will we eventually not be able to have power at all?

 

[Twilight Hue]

Our transition to other forms of energy after oil and coal runs out. Or will it be chaotic and involve a lot of loss of life? Or will we eventually not be able to have power at all?

I look at it this way.

The Amish don't seem too concerned.
Well if idiots don't go after their coal, kero, and wood after they're through with everyone else.

 

[Vinayaka]

Our transition to other forms of energy after oil and coal runs out. Or will it be chaotic and involve a lot of loss of life? Or will we eventually not be able to have power at all?

It's already started. So far, so good.

 

[Soandso]

We have other technologies we can switch to if nothing else, but if supplies ran out suddenly, there would definitely be wars fought over resources, IMO

 

[Nakosis]

Our transition to other forms of energy after oil and coal runs out. Or will it be chaotic and involve a lot of loss of life? Or will we eventually not be able to have power at all?

The oil companies have become energy companies. They delayed the transition until they could still control a majority of the market. They have a lot of money to invest into new technologies so they can continue the provide the world's energy needs.

So the energy sources will be different but you'll likely be paying the same people for it.

 

[Exaltist Ethan]

I have a hard time believing we'll ever be out of power.

 

[Sand Dancer]

Our transition to other forms of energy after oil and coal runs out. Or will it be chaotic and involve a lot of loss of life? Or will we eventually not be able to have power at all?

If we continue to offer hybrid vehicles, it's at least a step in the right direction, although the making and using of these vehicles often uses the energy type that we are trying to do away with or other just as damaging forms.

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

will we eventually not be able to have power at all?

We have more clean, renewable power than we need shining down from the sun. We put panels and a solar water heater on our roof twelve years ago (which paid for themselves in six years) and haven't paid for electricity since. Furthermore, we went from refilling the propane tank every three months to once a year, since we no longer use it to heat water in showers and appliances - just the range and outdoor grill require propane now. Sufficient numbers of panels in deserts could power the world: Saharan sun to power European supergrid | Solar power | The Guardian

 

[icehorse]

We have more clean, renewable power than we need shining down from the sun. We put panels and a solar water heater on our roof twelve years ago (which paid for themselves in six years) and haven't paid for electricity since. Furthermore, we went from refilling the propane tank every three months to once a year, since we no longer use it to heat water in showers and appliances - just the range and outdoor grill require propane now. Sufficient numbers of panels in deserts could power the world: Saharan sun to power European supergrid | Solar power | The Guardian

Yes. Between solar, wind, fusion, thermal and so on, we'll have energy. It might get more expensive but..

But I think the REAL concern is that climate change could very well upend society Rising sea levels will likely displace a BILLION people from their homes! Talk about a border crisis! It's also likely that we'll suffer a lot of droughts and floods that will seriously impact our food supplies

 

[Quintessence]

But I think the REAL concern is that climate change could very well upend society.

You're right. Not quite hitting the mark on the underlying cause as human-induced climate change is symptomatic of the underlying cause, but this is definitely where the focus needs to be.

That underlying cause is a dysfunctional relationship the species has with its environment. Instead of understanding the species grew out of the earth and is 100% dependent upon it, the species decides the earth is a resource to be used at will without consideration for the cost and giving back. Put simply, the tab is coming due. One does not simply kick off a sixth mass extinction and planetary scale ecocide and not suffer extreme consequences from it.

Planet'll still be here afterwards. So will life. Humans? Debatable.

 

[King Phenomenon]

You're right. Not quite hitting the mark on the underlying cause as human-induced climate change is symptomatic of the underlying cause, but this is definitely where the focus needs to be.

That underlying cause is a dysfunctional relationship the species has with its environment. Instead of understanding the species grew out of the earth and is 100% dependent upon it, the species decides the earth is a resource to be used at will without consideration for the cost and giving back. Put simply, the tab is coming due. One does not simply kick off a sixth mass extinction and planetary scale ecocide and not suffer extreme consequences from it.

Planet'll still be here afterwards. So will life. Humans? Debatable.

Eh I think God has other plans

 

[Vinayaka]

If we continue to offer hybrid vehicles, it's at least a step in the right direction, although the making and using of these vehicles often uses the energy type that we are trying to do away with or other just as damaging forms.

And this is precisely why I'm hesitant to go EV. Our power comes from a coal burning power plant. 95% of my driving is local.

 

[icehorse]

You're right. Not quite hitting the mark on the underlying cause as human-induced climate change is symptomatic of the underlying cause, but this is definitely where the focus needs to be.

That underlying cause is a dysfunctional relationship the species has with its environment. Instead of understanding the species grew out of the earth and is 100% dependent upon it, the species decides the earth is a resource to be used at will without consideration for the cost and giving back. Put simply, the tab is coming due. One does not simply kick off a sixth mass extinction and planetary scale ecocide and not suffer extreme consequences from it.

Planet'll still be here afterwards. So will life. Humans? Debatable.

We're of a mind. I assume you're familiar with the "7th generation" idea?

For those that are not, it's said that some native american nations weighed important decisions that would affect their lives, by trying to imagine the impact of their decisions on the next 7 generations.

Man, nowadays we can't seem to be able to look past the next quarter's P&L or the next election cycle. This will bite us in the butt, big time!

 

[The Kilted Heathen]

That underlying cause is a dysfunctional relationship the species has with its environment. Instead of understanding the species grew out of the earth and is 100% dependent upon it, the species decides the earth is a resource to be used at will without consideration for the cost and giving back.

I 100% blame colonialism and capitalism for this. The Earth is now seen as a commodity, a source of income and profitable exploitation for some mad-dash race to have the most money. It's absolutely deadly stupid.

 

[sun rise]

Our transition to other forms of energy after oil and coal runs out. Or will it be chaotic and involve a lot of loss of life? Or will we eventually not be able to have power at all?

We're already transitioning. There have been many stories about this. For example Texas gets about 25% of its power from renewables (mostly wind).

 

[Quintessence]

We're of a mind. I assume you're familiar with the "7th generation" idea?

For those that are not, it's said that some native american nations weighed important decisions that would affect their lives, by trying to imagine the impact of their decisions on the next 7 generations.

I have heard of the notion, and it's something I ought to look into more. My studies into indigenous North Americans have taken a bit of a pause lately as I'm bouncing into other directions, but I'll definitely get back to it as they've made significant contributions to environmental thought. The seven generations idea is among those contributions. It is a long form thinking that is at odds with much of how the Western world tends to operate.

I 100% blame colonialism and capitalism for this. The Earth is now seen as a commodity, a source of income and profitable exploitation for some mad-dash race to have the most money. It's absolutely deadly stupid.

That is part of it, but I think it goes deeper than that.

If you give an animal a tool it can use to exploit the environment to its advantage - and it is capable of using that tool - it will use it. I'd place the blame more solidly on technology as these tools enabled humans to become unparalleled ecosystem engineers. Instead of being forced to engage in a relationship of reciprocity of the land, technology permitted us to temporarily ignore or bypass that reciprocity. Keyword: temporarily. When the stilts give out, so will the civilizations built atop them. And it won't matter what economic or political system is involved with that.

 

[Mock Turtle]

I believe our government is going to provide us with gym bikes to power our homes, so for all those who never took up cycling, better get some practice in. On the other hand, this might just be a rumour.

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

I think the REAL concern is that climate change could very well upend society

Yes, and worse. The beasts will suffer as well, and that bothers me more. People will have to relocate. Yes, sea levels will rise and coastal habitats flooded, but people will likely increasingly discover that where they live is no longer habitable for a variety of extreme weather reasons. Also, people might need to move into sunnier (or windier) climes to be closer to free power.

Planet'll still be here afterwards. So will life. Humans? Debatable.

I expect humanity to survive this, but to suffer a huge correction.

the species decides the earth is a resource to be used at will without consideration for the cost and giving back

It's not hard to trace the roots of that thread of thought.

I 100% blame colonialism and capitalism for this.

But where did they learn that that was their God-given right? I blame the religions that sucked the sacred out of the earth, gave it a name, and sent it off to heaven to give man, that special creation and apple of its eye, dominion over everything to do as he pleases.

I think God has other plans

You're not alone. These Christian gentlemen agree with you:

• "We don't have to protect the environment, the Second Coming is at hand" - James Watt, Secretary of the Interior under Reagan (note his position and responsibilities)

• "My point is, God's still up there. The arrogance of people to think that we, human beings, would be able to change what He is doing in the climate is to me outrageous." - Sen. Inhofe, R-Okla

• "The Earth will end only when God declares it's time to be over. Man will not destroy this Earth. This Earth will not be destroyed by a flood. I do believe God's word is infallible, unchanging, perfect." - Rep John Shimkus, R-Ill.

Wasn't the recent thread that asked if man would have been better off without religion also yours? The polytheistic religions seem to be harmless to me (and possibly of value to their adherents) if they preserve the concept that the here and now actually has value. This other kind of religion with the man who lives outside our world and is intending to end it in fiery apocalypse teaches contempt for our world as you can plainly see from those quotes above.

 

[The Kilted Heathen]

But where did they learn that that was their God-given right? I blame the religions that sucked the sacred out of the earth, gave it a name, and sent it off to heaven to give man, that special creation and apple of its eye, dominion over everything to do as he pleases.

Why did that religion do that? The acquisition of wealth and privatization of both faith and land resources, which as I see it is a direct precursor to capitalism, with colonialism being capitalism in action abroad. And while @Quintessence had a very good point with technology, I still see inordinate and taught greed at the root of it all; a crow using a tool discards the tool once the task is done, it doesn't mine what it's trying to get to profit off the needs of other crows. And neither, at times, did humans, until Capitalism taught us how to profit and feed our greed.

 

[Quintessence]

Why did that religion do that? The acquisition of wealth and privatization of both faith and land resources, which as I see it is a direct precursor to capitalism, with colonialism being capitalism in action abroad. And while @Quintessence had a very good point with technology, I still see inordinate and taught greed at the root of it all; a crow using a tool discards the tool once the task is done, it doesn't mine what it's trying to get to profit off the needs of other crows. And neither, at times, did humans, until Capitalism taught us how to profit and feed our greed.

This reminds me about another aspect of the technology problem and where it becomes front and center.

When the crow discards a tool, the tool used by the crow is perhaps a blade of grass that returns to the nutrient cycle in a season. There's more or less a balance of give-and-take and things flow into the great cycle in a way that's sustainable.

Human technology use breaks these cycles.

Exploiting each other happened long before capitalism even existed. But the persistent remainders of this exploitation? That's newer. From stone buildings to smithed metals to plastics... this is stuff that breaks the great cycle and takes thousands of years and up to return to the cycles. There's too much of the throwing things "away" as if "away" is an actual place stuff goes to. Not enough considering of the end-use of any technological item that takes geologic ages to actually go "away" in any real sense.