Six Dr. Seuss Books Will Stop Being Published Because of Racist Imagery

[SomeRandom]

I know two kids, now 8 and 4 (boy and girl, respectively), who I have known since they were born. Love them both dearly, and have to say that both are very intelligent -- both were reading independently before 3 years old. They both understand that there are things that are accepted today that were looked down on before.

They both know, for example, that my partner and I are essentially a married couple, and that did not confuse them (when the boy asked when he was 6 1/2) "can two boys get married?" and were told, "yes, but they didn't used to be able to." And the boy has also had the sense to ask, "why didn't people like black people before?" because one of his best friends is, guess what....

By the way, both those kids love me dearly, and are always asking when I can come over again...

Like I said, better with kids than I am.
Though in saying that, perhaps being in a blended family there was no cause for the kids to question something such as “race.”
Interestingly they were more curious about same sex couples. Because my cousin who visited one day brought along his fiancé. Many (perfectly innocent) questions were asked of me that day.

In many ways I think that’s freeing. Nipping prejudice in the bud, so to speak

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Like I said, better with kids than I am.
Though in saying that, perhaps being in a blended family there was no cause for the kids to question something such as “race.”
Interestingly they were more curious about same sex couples. Because my cousin who visited one day brought along his fiancé. Many (perfectly innocent) questions were asked of me that day.

In many ways I think that’s freeing. Nipping prejudice in the bud, so to speak

Thank you for your response. I hope you see that you are actually giving support to the point I made. Children can indeed be taught tolerance, acceptance, equality, worth -- just as easily as they can be taught hate and fear. We just have to want to teach the good rather than the other.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I loathe any form of racism but if things keep going as they are, when will banning white bread or white chocolate happen?
Its time to curb it in.


Six Dr. Seuss Books Will Stop Being Published Because of Racist Imagery

At this point, classic literature itself will be deemed "problematic".

 

[Brian2]

I loathe any form of racism but if things keep going as they are, when will banning white bread or white chocolate happen?
Its time to curb it in.


Six Dr. Seuss Books Will Stop Being Published Because of Racist Imagery

The story of the star bellied sneetches and plain bellied sneetches seems to be against discrimination based on whether you had a star on your belly or not.
I guess that could be extrapolated to other forms of discrimination if you were good at extrapolating that sort of parable story telling.
Looking at the banning cynically I would say that it could be a money issue and a pre-emptive strike by the publishers before someone was offended and wanted them banned anyway,,,,,,,,,,,which could be on the cards these days.

 

[SomeRandom]

Thank you for your response. I hope you see that you are actually giving support to the point I made. Children can indeed be taught tolerance, acceptance, equality, worth -- just as easily as they can be taught hate and fear. We just have to want to teach the good rather than the other.

I do agree with your stance overall. I see merit in the position.
I just don’t know how one does that with a picture book. With a movie or TV show it’s easy. Have someone open the piece with a little disclaimer. The portrayal was wrong then as it is now, but that’s just the way society was back then. Etc etc etc.
In a Dr Seuss book? Are they going to have a little disclaimer on the opening page? One that might not be legible to the target demographic?
I mean not every kid has someone who will be willing to have or broach such a discussion, that’s an unfortunate reality I wish wasn’t so.
I’m just torn, is all

 

[SomeRandom]

At this point, classic literature itself will be deemed "problematic".

It kind of already is???
Seriously, this was being discussed when I was in school.
Often times in SOSE class rather than English, but still. Though sometimes we’d read something that made someone gasp. So we’d have the “back in those days this was normal” discussion.
Never to the point of taking it off shelves though.
Might have a hard time finding De Sade’s work but otherwise

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

I do agree with your stance overall. I see merit in the position.
I just don’t know how one does that with a picture book. With a movie or TV show it’s easy. Have someone open the piece with a little disclaimer. The portrayal was wrong then as it is now, but that’s just the way society was back then. Etc etc etc.
In a Dr Seuss book? Are they going to have a little disclaimer on the opening page? One that might not be legible to the target demographic?
I mean not every kid has someone who will be willing to have or broach such a discussion, that’s an unfortunate reality I wish wasn’t so.
I’m just torn, is all

I would encourage every parent to read with their kids from about the time they're 4 days old (people will call me nuts right away for that, I suppose). And keep reading with them for quite a while -- right up until they're doing their own reading in about grades 4 or 5. That way, when questions come up, they can be answered right there and then -- when everybody is comfortable and warm and feeling safe.

Then, when kids get to very difficult books, like To Kill a Mockingbird -- probably the best novel written in the last 100 years in my opinion -- or to trying to understand Othello the Moor or Shylock the Jew in Shakespeare, they will be ready to answer their own questions.

Do you know how many people cannot see that Shakespeare was the farthest thing from a racist, or anti-semitic? Really read Merchant of Venice, and you will understand that Shakespeare doesn't judge anyone. If Shylock is bad -- he's bad because he's a bad Jew in exactly the same way that Antonio the Merchant and his friends are bad Christians. There are other Jews in the play -- daughter Jessica and kinsman Tubal -- who are presented with complete neutrality.

Or Othello, noble at the beginning, and failing for merely human faults -- and most importantly regaining his nobility at the end (read his last speech, below, to see what I mean).

That's the beauty of teaching kids to read and think independently -- and to ask questions when they don't understand. You can prepare them for anything, and give them the best possible chance at deep understanding of what it really means to be human.

Othello: "Soft you; a word or two before you go.
I have done the state some service, and they know't.
No more of that. I pray you, in your letters,
When you shall these unlucky deeds relate,
Speak of me as I am; nothing extenuate,
Nor set down aught in malice: then must you speak
Of one that loved not wisely but too well;
Of one not easily jealous, but being wrought
Perplex'd in the extreme; of one whose hand,
Like the base Indian, threw a pearl away
Richer than all his tribe; of one whose subdued eyes,
Albeit unused to the melting mood,
Drop tears as fast as the Arabian trees
Their medicinal gum. Set you down this;
And say besides, that in Aleppo once,
Where a malignant and a turban'd Turk
Beat a Venetian and traduced the state,
I took by the throat the circumcised dog,
And smote him, thus." [Stabs himself]

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

At this point, classic literature itself will be deemed "problematic".

Not if I can help it...let the battle begin! Sign up to do battle!

 

[SomeRandom]

I would encourage every parent to read with their kids from about the time they're 4 days old (people will call me nuts right away for that, I suppose). And keep reading with them for quite a while -- right up until they're doing their own reading in about grades 4 or 5. That way, when questions come up, they can be answered right there and then -- when everybody is comfortable and warm and feeling safe.

Then, when kids get to very difficult books, like To Kill a Mockingbird -- probably the best novel written in the last 100 years in my opinion -- or to trying to understand Othello the Moor or Shylock the Jew in Shakespeare, they will be ready to answer their own questions.

Do you know how many people cannot see that Shakespeare was the farthest thing from a racist, or anti-semitic? Really read Merchant of Venice, and you will understand that Shakespeare doesn't judge anyone. If Shylock is bad -- he's bad because he's a bad Jew in exactly the same way that Antonio the Merchant and his friends are bad Christians. There are other Jews in the play -- daughter Jessica and kinsman Tubal -- who are presented with complete neutrality.

Or Othello, noble at the beginning, and failing for merely human faults -- and most importantly regaining his nobility at the end (read his last speech, below, to see what I mean).

That's the beauty of teaching kids to read and think independently -- and to ask questions when they don't understand. You can prepare them for anything, and give them the best possible chance at deep understanding of what it really means to be human.

Othello: "Soft you; a word or two before you go.
I have done the state some service, and they know't.
No more of that. I pray you, in your letters,
When you shall these unlucky deeds relate,
Speak of me as I am; nothing extenuate,
Nor set down aught in malice: then must you speak
Of one that loved not wisely but too well;
Of one not easily jealous, but being wrought
Perplex'd in the extreme; of one whose hand,
Like the base Indian, threw a pearl away
Richer than all his tribe; of one whose subdued eyes,
Albeit unused to the melting mood,
Drop tears as fast as the Arabian trees
Their medicinal gum. Set you down this;
And say besides, that in Aleppo once,
Where a malignant and a turban'd Turk
Beat a Venetian and traduced the state,
I took by the throat the circumcised dog,
And smote him, thus." [Stabs himself]

You’re not an English teacher, by chance, are you?

Also is it bad that I find it easier to watch The Bard’s plays than to read them?

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

You’re not an English teacher, by chance, are you?

No, I'm a life-long reader with a particular fondness for Shakespeare. I have written and performed my own one-man show on the Bard, and I've had many people tell me, when I walk them through the plays and sonnets, that if they'd had a teacher like me maybe they would have done better.

And I do confess it, I absolutely love telling people what some of Shakespeare's words mean. Ask me about Sonnet 135 one day, and I'll tell you. It's filthy, bloody filthy! (Read it below, if you dare.)

Also is it bad that I find it easier to watch The Bard’s plays than to read them?

Not at all, in fact it's perfectly natural. What actors do, actually, is not so much "act" but try to understand what all those weird words and constructs actually mean -- and then through their understanding, convey that to you.

But let me say this: there is, when you learn to do it, a great joy in being able to read (which involves internal mental acting) the plays for yourself. I've read them all, and still read them again and again today.


Sonnet 135

Whoever hath her wish, thou hast thy Will,
And Will to boot, and Will in overplus;
More than enough am I that vex thee still,
To thy sweet will making addition thus.
Wilt thou, whose will is large and spacious,
Not once vouchsafe to hide my will in thine?
Shall will in others seem right gracious,
And in my will no fair acceptance shine?
The sea, all water, yet receives rain still,
And in abundance addeth to his store;
So thou being rich in Will add to thy Will
One will of mine, to make thy large Will more.
Let no unkind, no fair beseechers kill;
Think all but one, and me in that one Will.

(Here's a hint: Elizabethans used the word "will" to mean what you and I usually mean, but also, uncontrolled lust -- and ALSO those body parts that are engaged. Thus "will" - which is of course Shakespeare's first name -- was also used to mean the sexual organs, both male and female. Now read it again -- he's talking to the "Dark Lady," a mistress of his who was unfaithful to him with others around London at the time.)

 

[SomeRandom]

No, I'm a life-long reader with a particular fondness for Shakespeare. I have written and performed my own one-man show on the Bard, and I've had many people tell me, when I walk them through the plays and sonnets, that if they'd had a teacher like me maybe they would have done better.

You certainly do seem to possess an aptitude towards the “teaching spirit.”

And I do confess it, I absolutely love telling people what some of Shakespeare's words mean. Ask me about Sonnet 135 one day, and I'll tell you. It's filthy, bloody filthy! (Read it below, if you dare.)

Bruh, I grew up around teachers. Trust me when I say, I’m quite familiar with the dirtier aspects of classical poetry/literature. Nothing bawdier than the classics lol
Actually my cousin gifted me a book called “filthy Shakespeare.” A break down of all the dirty jokes, puns and other such wonderful educational material. Such a resource should be mandatory in all schools, imho.

Not at all, in fact it's perfectly natural. What actors do, actually, is not so much "act" but try to understand what all those weird words and constructs actually mean -- and then through their understanding, convey that to you.

Hmm, that does make sense. I suppose with a visual medium like plays, sometimes reading it doesn’t do it justice.
Like there are Wilde’s plays that I find a bit tedious to read. But watching them is a different experience entirely. Like making the words come alive, I guess

But let me say this: there is, when you learn to do it, a great joy in being able to read (which involves internal mental acting) the plays for yourself. I've read them all, and still read them again and again today.

I wish I could. I like reading the Canon don’t get me wrong. I like the abstract and the “artsy-ness.” But I’m more comfortable pretending I understand Lolita than acting out the Bard in my head lol

Sonnet 135

Whoever hath her wish, thou hast thy Will,
And Will to boot, and Will in overplus;
More than enough am I that vex thee still,
To thy sweet will making addition thus.
Wilt thou, whose will is large and spacious,
Not once vouchsafe to hide my will in thine?
Shall will in others seem right gracious,
And in my will no fair acceptance shine?
The sea, all water, yet receives rain still,
And in abundance addeth to his store;
So thou being rich in Will add to thy Will
One will of mine, to make thy large Will more.
Let no unkind, no fair beseechers kill;
Think all but one, and me in that one Will.

(Here's a hint: Elizabethans used the word "will" to mean what you and I usually mean, but also, uncontrolled lust -- and ALSO those body parts that are engaged. Thus "will" - which is of course Shakespeare's first name -- was also used to mean the sexual organs, both male and female. Now read it again -- he's talking to the "Dark Lady," a mistress of his who was unfaithful to him with others around London at the time.)

 

[McBell]

But we’ve moved on

I disagree.
Cause if we have really "moved on" then the stereotypes would not be an issue.
In books.
Toys
bathrooms
....


IMO we have moved backwards.
and I mean as a society, not as individuals.
though there are definitely some individuals pushing really hard to go backwards.
what baffles me is why we are letting them.
Hells bells, we are encouraging it by entertaining this type of nonsense.

instead of learning from history, we are erasing it.
what is that old saying about not learning from history....?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

No more "Mr Potato Head" in order to be more inclusive and so all could feel “welcome in the Potato Head world.

They also made a "Mrs Potato Head". Don't want a Mr, buy the Mrs.

When I started seeing conservatives getting worked up about the gender of a plastic potato is when I got a new appreciation for just how far off the deep end they had gone.

 

[McBell]

I used those more as a metaphor. In my opinion things are getting out of hand.

I'm mixed race so I can call my friends n****r and its fine but no other race can use it without being racist. Don't tell me its because its a friendship term among us because we even call that to people we despise.

Uncle Ben Rice. He was an African-American rice grower known for the quality of his rice. It made him famous

No more "Mr Potato Head" in order to be more inclusive and so all could feel “welcome in the Potato Head world.

They also made a "Mrs Potato Head". Don't want a Mr, buy the Mrs.

Etc

 

[SomeRandom]

I disagree.
Cause if we have really "moved on" then the stereotypes would not be an issue.
In books.
Toys
bathrooms
....


IMO we have moved backwards.
and I mean as a society, not as individuals.
though there are definitely some individuals pushing really hard to go backwards.
what baffles me is why we are letting them.
Hells bells, we are encouraging it by entertaining this type of nonsense.

instead of learning from history, we are erasing it.
what is that old saying about not learning from history....?

Learning from history doesn’t always mean you can keep intact everything from it. Not necessarily anyway. I’m sure there have been many shows/movies even books that are not allowed on TV or shelves anymore in my country. Even shows/movies/books I’m completely unaware of since they’ve been banned before my time. Or at least such things that are a little harder to come by in the mainstream. I have no qualms with recognising history.
I would not be entirely comfortable showing my baby cousins a cartoon with blackface from the 30s. As a teaching exercise maybe. But I guess as a non parent, such is not my lines to cross with them. I dunno. Such depictions are certainly appropriate for a classroom perhaps where a teacher can lead a discussion on it. But in my spare time? I’d have to leave that up to the parent. Though that could also be me reacting to such depictions.
I had an old VHS of bugs bunny cartoons as a tot. There was one with bugs going against what is essentially a black version of Elmer Fudd, with a gambling addiction for some reason. A lot of the actual context was lost on me since I was not only very young but not American. The “coding” is not universally recognised, if that makes sense? So neither of my parents could properly have that particular discussion with me. Indeed some of my teachers could point out why it was disrespectful, but not fully. Since we have our own stereotypes.

So I dunno. I think ultimately one should not be censoring these types of works. But on the other, maybe some parents wish to wait a little longer to have such discussions? And might favour a different option.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Anyone reading Dr Seuss is likely still learning the alphabet. Do you really think at such an age it is okay to normalise caricatures that may reflect poorly on another race, even if unintentional?
Mr Geisel is a racist in the same way everyone of his generation were. Things were different back then. Certain portrayals were okay. But we’ve moved on

How is that poorly?

Pygmys did wear handmade garb from plant materials and Chinese eyes are obviously different and unique as with most Asian people.

Did Dr Seuss ever potray anyone to make a person hate those characters?

I think assessments reflect on a person's insecurities and personal failures to grasp what is actually racist / bigoted and what is good humor and is complementary in those portrayed.

I like singing dippity do da for instance, and Uncle Remus is beloved by its viewers, not hated.

Rip James Baskett. You will be dearly missed.


Cancel culture advocates come across as being insecure and jaded people who really are not happy with themselves. What a sad existence.

 

[SomeRandom]

How is that poorly?

Pygmys did wear handmade garb from plant materials and Chinese eyes are obviously different and unique as with most Asian people.

Did Dr Seuss ever potray anyone to make a person hate those characters?

I think assessments reflect on a person's insecurities and personal failures to grasp what is actually racist / bigoted and what is good humor and is complementary in those portrayed.

I like singing dippity do da for instance, and Uncle Remus is beloved by its viewers, not hated.

Rip James Baskett. You will be dearly missed.


Cancel culture advocates come across as being insecure and jaded people who really are not happy with themselves. What a sad existence.

Cancel culture also known as “consequence culture.”
I couldn’t care less what the company behind the Seuss fortune does, in all honesty. They themselves said it was to “preserve his legacy.” So this is more PR than any real concern of historical portrayals, I’d wager.
Plenty of companies do the same and have done for like 100 years. Rebrand after some stupid results from their marketing team. Publishers are no different.
Since I no longer read Dr Seuss (but still hold him in very high regard) I just can’t find myself to cry about this. I’m sorry. What can I say? Buy them when you can and sell them online for a profit. Otherwise. Eh. I wish they’d reconsider because it’s short sighted. But I don’t control them

Also nothing but respect for Mr Baskett. Fun fact find I haven’t been able to watch that movie since....well as long as I’ve been alive. Either due to the Disney vault being a thing or Disney not wanting to tarnish their image internationally. Since that movie is from the 40s right?
I fail to see how this phenomenon is anything new.

 

[Heyo]

I saw that in the news too.
Pretty amazing.
Reminds me of San Francisco renaming schools named
after people associated with racism, eg, Abraham Lincoln,
Dianne Feinstein, George Washington.
A couple decades back, Michigan's real estate licensing
board banned terms like "master bedroom" as insensitive.

I wonder if this phenomenon is related to making electrical
terms unisex in popular parlance? What is now just "plug"
was once separated into "plug" (male) & "outlet" (female).

Yep, very sexist. But in one thing we were ahead of the times: we had no problems with gender change(rs).

 

[Heyo]

I loathe any form of racism but if things keep going as they are, when will banning white bread or white chocolate happen?
Its time to curb it in.


Six Dr. Seuss Books Will Stop Being Published Because of Racist Imagery

I loath any form of discrimination but this is not a stance against racism, it's a marketing ploy.
There are subtle reasons why speech contributes to discrimination and it has to be viewed in that light. But PC speech has become a main topic in its own right instead of a side issue.
The result is that people use PC speech as virtue signalling and some may even think to be progressive when they use PC speech. They are not. It is a side issue and if it is treated as the main issue, it distracts from the main issue.
The main issue is the real discrimination. It is systemic racism in the police and other organizations. It is the right to discriminate for bakers and other professions. And while those issues exist, I couldn't care less about linguistics.
But the real issue are hard to tackle while linguistics is cheap and easy. It gives some people the illusion of accomplishment and others the opportunity to deflect from the real issues. And it creates a delusional state that there can't be big problems when the biggest problem is how to politically correct call someone.

 

[Samael_Khan]

I loathe any form of racism but if things keep going as they are, when will banning white bread or white chocolate happen?
Its time to curb it in.


Six Dr. Seuss Books Will Stop Being Published Because of Racist Imagery

My question is: Did the racist aspect of the book impact people's views on race at all? I mean, I watched Looney Toons as a kid and it displayed black people in top hats with black faces and white lips but that didn't affect my view of black people at all.

People should read things in their historical context and have the critical thinking skills to not adopt the authors viewpoints.

The same thing is the case with HP Lovecraft books. Love his fiction and the world that he created. But he has xenophobic elements in his books which are amusing because it sheds light on his ignorance and paranoia and also adds to the horror, but how many people who read his books actually become xenophobic? Or do those elements actually not affect people in any meaningful way?

Should we eventually ban or stop publishing books like the Bible and the Quran because it shows intolerance to homosexuals or any other book that doesn't agree with our supposed high morality today?