Sin?

[Galateasdream]

No I didnt or a god to deliver it

We just think differently on what counts as an educated assessment. Your internal moral compass expressed in thought and word is, to me, a quite complex endeavour - one that a snail couldn't do, for example. Enough to be an educated assessment, imho.

 

[Ayjaydee]

We just think differently on what counts as an educated assessment. Your internal moral compass expressed in thought and word is, to me, a quite complex endeavour - one that a snail couldn't do, for example. Enough to be an educated assessment, imho.

You over analyze, it has nothing to do with my moral compass.

 

[Galateasdream]

You over analyze, it has nothing to do with my moral compass.

OK. We disagree

 

[pearl]

Sin is doing stuff contrary to moral reality grounded in God's moral nature - ie, doing bad things (or for bad reasons etc).

I think the question does sin always represent guilt before God which would be separation form God. More important than the sin itself is our response to having sinned. Dose a sin represent who we have become?

 

[Ayjaydee]

OK. We disagree

Amazing how you can see inside my decision process. But then xtians often feel they know what's what

 

[Galateasdream]

Amazing how you can see inside my decision process. But then xtians often feel they know what's what

It's not a claim about your internal condition, its a claim about a definition of a word. Wind your neck in, lol You're too ready to fight and engage is casual christianophobia.

 

[Ayjaydee]

It's not a claim about your internal condition, its a claim about a definition of a word. Wind your neck in, lol You're too ready to fight and engage is casual christianophobia.

Christianophobia is important

 

[BSM1]

Not if they are instantiated in reality.
I mean, the concept of gravity or the number 2 is man made ... but also reflects or describes something that exists outside of the human conceptual framework.

If moral reality exists then it exists.
Whether it does or not is an open question.

Uhhh...?

 

[ChristineM]

Moral perfection, wholly virtuous and omnibenevolent.
Of course, exactly what that means on specific issues and details will take us forever to work out. Though we can make some educated assessments as we go, like torturing infants for fun is wrong etc.

I wouldn't say that of the god who created suffering, evil, was the first to commit genocide, and the second. Condones murder, rape theft and slavery.

I can assure you i have more morality than that and i am atheist.

 

[Yohanan ben Yaaqov]

I had no choice but to pick “Sin is something else” because none of your other options are even reasonably close.

“Sin” is Crime – aka breaking or violating the Law – nothing more and nothing less.

The specific Hebrew and Greek words which are translated “sin” are – חַטָּאת – ḥattaʾt and – αμαρτια – hamartia, respectively, both of which are Feminine Nouns and both of which share exactly the same definition: accident, error, inadvertence, mishap, mistake, etc. they also share one other definition – missing the mark – which is an archery reference, and literally means missing the bullseye; probably not equivalent to whatever your intended meaning of “missing the mark” may have been.

If you write 2 + 2 = 5 on a math test when you know fully well that 2 + 2 = 4; that is a ḥattaʾt and a hamartia and a sin. You accidentally violated a Math rule.

With your brake applied, you hit a patch of ice and slide into an intersection, past a stop sign or light; that is a ḥattaʾt and a hamartia and a sin. You accidently violated a Traffic Law.

A ḥattaʾt or hamartia is an unintentional violation of the Law which you accidently violated without advance knowledge of doing so.

This is the only type of legal violation which could be paid for by means of any type of gift offering. It did not exclusively have to be the slaughtering of an animal; 9 1/3 cups of grain, or the monetary equivalent of the value of the preferred animals were equally as acceptable.

Just as there is petty crime, misdemeanor and felony in modern Criminal Justice Systems, there is also ḥattaʾt – petty crime; עָווֹן – ʿavon – misdemeanor; and – פֶּשַׁע – peshaʿ - felony in the Jewish Criminal Justice System.

Sliding on the ice through a traffic signal, robbing a bank, and murdering someone are all sins/crimes, however they are not equal sins/crimes. Just as with any other criminal justice system – the more severe the crime, the more severe the punishment.

There is absolutely no crime within the Jewish Criminal Justice System for which the penalty is the human sacrifice of a demigod. Especially since the belief in demigods is a violation of Jewish Law, and human sacrifice is also a violation of Jewish Law.

Just as if I rob a bank I cannot go sacrifice a goat to make up for it according to modern Legal Systems, I cannot do it according to the Jewish Legal System either.

Sin is crime, period, nothing else. There is no hidden, mystical or esoteric meaning – sin is crime, period.

 

[Thief]

the Spanish use the word to mean.....without


I go with that

 

[Galateasdream]

wouldn't say that of the god who created suffering, evil, was the first to commit genocide, and the second. Condones murder, rape theft and slavery.

Neither would I.

 

[ChristineM]

Neither would I.

That list comes from actions claimed in the bible of the abrahamic god.

 

[Galateasdream]

That list comes from actions claimed in the bible of the abrahamic god.

I know. But many of the portrayals of God in the bible make Him a monster.

 

[ChristineM]

I know. But many of the portrayals of God in the bible make Him a monster.

They do indeed make him an immoral monster. As i understand it, the trick is not to read those bits

 

[Samantha Rinne]

"Sin" or unskillfull or unwholesome acts leading to suffering

Unskillful? So if you do a bad job cooking dinner you're sinning? You gotta explain this one...

 

[BilliardsBall]

Sin gets mentioned in the Bible, and in a couple other books of faith, I imagine. But the problem is, it is very poorly defined. So, I'm gonna put it to a poll.

I'm gonna allow multiple answers.

Personally, I used to believe sin is separation from God, but I now know nothing can separate us from God. What can happen is a sense of distorted good/evil, and the inability to see Grace.

So basically the two below that.

I do not believe in Original Sin. But I do think Knowing Good and Evil create sins that aren't real.

I don't know what you mean, "sins that aren't real," but it would be foolish to say IMHO that any human besides Jesus Christ is morally PERFECT, 100% of the time (without SIN).

 

[Samantha Rinne]

I think that 'sin' is doing something one believes to be wrong, according to the faith/philosophy one claims to live by. Therefore 'sin' can be subjective. It is VERY personal.

For instance; awhile back, Catholics were not allowed to eat meat on Friday, only fish. Even now some Christians make promises for lent; to do, or abstain from doing, something during that time that would ordinarily be fine any other time of the year, or if they had not promised. Well then, for THEM, eating meat on Friday is sinful. If they had promised to, say, abstain from smoking during lent, then smoking would be a sin...as well as being stupid (not the same thing).

In my faith, we are supposed to fast for 24 hours, or two meals, on the first Sunday of the month. So, unless it isn't healthy to do so, if I do not fast, I'm sinning. If you don't believe in fasting once a month, then it's not a sin if you don't.

So 'a sin' is to do, or fail to do, something one believes God expects of you...or something you expect of yourself. So atheists can sin too. All that is required is an expectation of what a 'good person' should do...and a violation of that expectation.

One cannot confuse secular law with 'sin.' It's quite possible to break the law and not sin...for instance, breaking the speed limit to get one's pregnant wife to the hospital might be dumb, but probably not sinful. If one is a pagan islander who figures that killing and eating one's enemies is honorable, and does so in spite of laws against it, it's not sinful...just unlawful. There are many people who have been jailed for things they did not consider to be sins.

And lots of people who go merrily sinning their way through life by only doing legal things.

Anyway, that's my view and I'm sticking to it. The issue then is not to condemn others for being horrible sinners....especially when in their own views and belief systems they aren't, but to see if you can change their minds to agree with you about what 'sin' is. I do not believe that God is going to condemn anybody for committing 'sins' that they don't KNOW are sins.

I'm a little skeptical about the islander one (I think there are certain things that are wrong, and cannibalism is generally allowed by their ppl, but is in the same class as slavery or burning ppl alive, inherently wrong because it causes suffering to others).

But other than that, it seems like for the most part, the rest of what you're defining as sin is "making a vow to yourself or standard of behavior, and then not living up to it"?

 

[Samantha Rinne]

I had no choice but to pick “Sin is something else” because none of your other options are even reasonably close.

“Sin” is Crime – aka breaking or violating the Law – nothing more and nothing less.

The specific Hebrew and Greek words which are translated “sin” are – חַטָּאת – ḥattaʾt and – αμαρτια – hamartia, respectively, both of which are Feminine Nouns and both of which share exactly the same definition: accident, error, inadvertence, mishap, mistake, etc. they also share one other definition – missing the mark – which is an archery reference, and literally means missing the bullseye; probably not equivalent to whatever your intended meaning of “missing the mark” may have been.

If you write 2 + 2 = 5 on a math test when you know fully well that 2 + 2 = 4; that is a ḥattaʾt and a hamartia and a sin. You accidentally violated a Math rule.

With your brake applied, you hit a patch of ice and slide into an intersection, past a stop sign or light; that is a ḥattaʾt and a hamartia and a sin. You accidently violated a Traffic Law.

A ḥattaʾt or hamartia is an unintentional violation of the Law which you accidently violated without advance knowledge of doing so.

This is the only type of legal violation which could be paid for by means of any type of gift offering. It did not exclusively have to be the slaughtering of an animal; 9 1/3 cups of grain, or the monetary equivalent of the value of the preferred animals were equally as acceptable.

Just as there is petty crime, misdemeanor and felony in modern Criminal Justice Systems, there is also ḥattaʾt – petty crime; עָווֹן – ʿavon – misdemeanor; and – פֶּשַׁע – peshaʿ - felony in the Jewish Criminal Justice System.

Sliding on the ice through a traffic signal, robbing a bank, and murdering someone are all sins/crimes, however they are not equal sins/crimes. Just as with any other criminal justice system – the more severe the crime, the more severe the punishment.

There is absolutely no crime within the Jewish Criminal Justice System for which the penalty is the human sacrifice of a demigod. Especially since the belief in demigods is a violation of Jewish Law, and human sacrifice is also a violation of Jewish Law.

Just as if I rob a bank I cannot go sacrifice a goat to make up for it according to modern Legal Systems, I cannot do it according to the Jewish Legal System either.

Sin is crime, period, nothing else. There is no hidden, mystical or esoteric meaning – sin is crime, period.

Why isn't that number two? Disobedience? If you disobey the Law, you are usually a criminal. The only real difference is that while many sins (like murder) are crimes, some things that are not crimes (like slavery, at one point) were sins.

BilliardsBall, by sins that aren't real, I mean that because we have knowledge of good and evil, we have the ability to label things as evil and therefore "sinful". Here's an example, a person who is not on any diet but simply eating a variety of foods and keeping healthy will occasionally eat chocolate. A person on a diet, usually fails at it, because they declare chocolate "bad" (actually, cocoa is very good for the body, it's the excess of sugars and fats) and gets cravings because they deprive of everything fun. Likewise, a low fat diet declares fat to be "bad", especially saturated fat. Studies have been done, and people who eat fatty foods (like certain fish or eggs) that are nonetheless natural (as opposed to a low-fat but heavily processed tv dinner) are generally healthier weight because these fats contain nutrients that the body otherwise lacks from a vegan diet or something. It is possible to get into an unhealthy mind state where perfectly okay things like burning wood are seen as "sins" because of neurosis about pollution.

 

[james bond]

Sin gets mentioned in the Bible, and in a couple other books of faith, I imagine. But the problem is, it is very poorly defined. So, I'm gonna put it to a poll.

I'm gonna allow multiple answers.

Personally, I used to believe sin is separation from God, but I now know nothing can separate us from God. What can happen is a sense of distorted good/evil, and the inability to see Grace.

So basically the two below that.

I do not believe in Original Sin. But I do think Knowing Good and Evil create sins that aren't real.

Original sin is what you are doing in the second to the last sentence. It is the key learning to what happened with Adam and Eve. Sure, there is Adam's sin in that we are all born of it. The evidence is we are all flesh and blood creatures and this means death, but it's what he and you did in the OP that was the original sin.

If you look at what Satan said to both Eve and Adam in the garden of Eden,

"The Fall

Now the serpent was more crafty than any other beast of the field that the Lord God had made.

He said to the woman, “Did God actually say, ‘You1 shall not eat of any tree in the garden’?” And the woman said to the serpent, “We may eat of the fruit of the trees in the garden, but God said, ‘You shall not eat of the fruit of the tree that is in the midst of the garden, neither shall you touch it, lest you die.’ ” But the serpent said to the woman, “You will not surely die. For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.” So when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was a delight to the eyes, and that the tree was to be desired to make one wise, she took of its fruit and ate, and she also gave some to her husband who was with her, and he ate. Then the eyes of both were opened, and they knew that they were naked. And they sewed fig leaves together and made themselves loincloths." Genesis 3:1-7

Can you spot what their sin was? It the same sin that Lucifer committed. He wanted to be like God. Satan said, "You will not surely die. For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God..."

Thus, "I do not believe in Original Sin" is the you will be like God statement. No one can convince you otherwise because you are "like God." Food for thought.