• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Signs of eloquence in Quran

Link

Veteran Member
Premium Member
And as usual, those posts make no sense.
Take #77. You merely reiterate the lines from the verse without explaining why they couldn't have been written by a 7th century Arab.
And of course there are nuggets like...
"Ultimately God has hidden his proof for his proofs till the day of judgment, so that every soul can get what it strives for and so it's for the sake of himself wanting to be desired and worshipped, has to some degree hidden his name."
...which is just meaningless word salad.

The day of judgment is when his signs/proofs will be manifest when no one doubts. Until to some degree, they are hidden, although apparent and clear at the same time. His proof for his proofs, is in reference to: "why not a sign regarding him is revealed..." and "till their came to them a clear proof. A Messenger from God reciting..."
 
Last edited:

KWED

Scratching head, scratching knee
The day of judgment is when his signs/proofs will be manifest when no one doubts.
Too late then.

Until to some degree, they are hidden,
If Allah hides the proofs for his existence:
1. He is not justified in punishing people for not worshiping him.
2. He obviously doesn't want people to worship him - but the Quran says that's the only reason he created mankind. A major problem there.

although apparent and clear at the same time.
Not if he hides them.

His proof for his proofs, is in reference to what "why not a sign regarding him is revealed..." and "till their came to them a clear proof. A Messenger from God reciting..."
This is meaningless nonsense.
 

Link

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Somethings are binary, somethings are relative to each other.

The signs while hidden to some degree are almost manifest to some degree. Their utmost manifestation is on the day of judgment.
 

Link

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Salam

One of the eloquent features of Quran is how it has discussed God's Name. In every chapter except one, it begins with the phrase "by the name of God...". Some people think it's a formality but a whole new eloquent dimension to Quran is opened up if you see as part of the Chapter and making a phrase.

For example in Surah Fatiha, it would be saying "By the name of God... the praise is to God...", that is it's through the name of God that all praise is to God and God is known and praised.

In Surah Falaq, it means the name of God is a means of seeking refuge... say I seek refuge by the name of God....in the Lord of the dawn from the evil he has created.

In Surah Inshirah, the name of God is by which God widens the breast of Mohammad (s) and this is in reference to Ali (a) like God did through Harun (a) for Musa (a).

There are many dimensions and aspects of the name of God in the Quran. In Surah Quraysh, Quraysh if seen as the God-fearing who are the true protectors and guardians of the Kaba and it's rituals, then it's "the name of God" by which God has made unity of a certain people, who are these people, they are "this house" which God is the Lord of and want us to worship the Lord of this house, in the same way magicians of Pharaoh acknowledged the Lord of Musa and Harun.

So for the togetherness of the God-fearing people who are the true Quraysh, he made that Ahlulbayt (a) are together and bound together in the travel of winter and summer through God's Name.

Their truth and unity and God's Name are linked in a ever close way. He didn't decide to spread them through out the lands or put them in different times, but together as a "family" as to worship the Lord of this family who made the house by which he is to approached through his wisdom.

Every chapter that begins with the name of God emphasizes on a dimension of it. In Surah 2, it means it's through God's Name that there is no doubt this book to be a guidance for the Mutaqeen (the guarding/God-fearing). This has a meaning that Quran becomes a guidance and Taqwa is gained through God's Name.

In Surah Abu Lahab, the name of God is prayed to be the means by which God cuts off the ability of the Abu Lahab to misguide humans. We are still being misguided by an Abu Lahab of our times, but we pray one day, there be no more Pharaohs and Hamans, and there be an end to Gog and Magog rule. Consequently, helping God's Name and making people aware of this truth, is a means of ending oppression and dark rule of the devils of Jinn and Humans.

This is an eloquent feature of Quran but not a lot of people are familiar with it.
 
Last edited:

KWED

Scratching head, scratching knee
One of the eloquent features of Quran ...
You do realise that "eloquent" merely means that something is well written or expresses a point clearly?
Really not sure why you think eloquence in ancient scripture is something remarkable. The Bible is eloquent. The Iliad and Odyssey is eloquent. The Norse sagas and Roman fables are eloquent.

Pre-Islamic Arabia already had a rich tradition of eloquence in poetry and storytelling.
 

Link

Veteran Member
Premium Member
You do realise that "eloquent" merely means that something is well written or expresses a point clearly?
Really not sure why you think eloquence in ancient scripture is something remarkable. The Bible is eloquent. The Iliad and Odyssey is eloquent. The Norse sagas and Roman fables are eloquent.

Pre-Islamic Arabia already had a rich tradition of eloquence in poetry and storytelling.

In the context of this thread, I'm just trying to show high eloquence. Then people can judge if it can be human made or if the cumulative case proves it from God.
 

Link

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Salam

One of the biggest signs to me of Quran being from God is how he talks about Prophetic names in the order he does so and what grouping. At first glance, the grouping of Prophets together with their names may seem random. Over time, when you understand each grouping with respect to the chapter and with respect to Quran over all, indeed an eloquent feature opens up from God.

I am going to unveiling this aspect of Quran and inshallah, this feature will prove it to be from God without doubt for truth seekers.
 

Link

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Salam

The mention and omission of Ismail

In the 2nd Chapter, we see Ismail is mentioned in the grouping with Ibrahim, Isaac, and Yaqoub. This also contextualizes "the branches" to people like Isaac, Yaqoub, and later we find out Yusuf as well. They are the branches of the blessed tree of light of their time.

However, not everywhere is Ismail mentioned in this grouping. In Surah Baqara he is mentioned. In other places he is not. The reason why is because the argument for Ismail being included is already made in that chapter with respect to the Torah. The emphasis on Ibrahim and his leadership and the Messenger to come from the offspring of Ismail has made the argument.

In Surah Anbiya for example and other places it omits Ismail in the grouping. This is because it's make for sake of argument, Ismail is not accepted, still you accept Isaac, Jacob etc, from Ibrahim. In Surah Anbiya it's particularly making the case for a divinely chosen family and so after the emphasis mentions Ismail but does not put him in the grouping. This makes the case for Ismail, but also the case for sake of argument say he is not included in the family of Ibrahim that still there needs to be a divinely chosen family of the reminder to continue the mission of the chosen ones.

I personally find this very intriguing. Obviously Mohammad (s) has to have Ismail (a) as a significant person and the promise and response to God regarding him to be important.

I also find it very eloquent that he is mentioned along side Isaac (a) in Surah Ibrahim and with emphasis that "God is the hearer of prayers", and upon research we find out Ismail means "God has heard". And so he is mentioned again and grouped with Isaac when there is an argument for his sake with respect to the Torah.

Will continue more about grouping of Prophets in posts ahead.
 

Link

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Salam

The branches and not making distinction



Say, ‘We have faith in Allah and what has been revealed to us, and what was revealed to Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, Jacob and the branches, and that which Moses and Jesus were given, and that which the prophets were given from their Lord; we make no distinction between any of them and to Him do we submit.’

This is making a case for not distinguishing between Prophets, but it also makes a distinction in itself. Ismail is a branch of the foundation Ibrahim, Isaac is a branch, Jacob is a branch, Yusuf is a branch.

Then it mentions Musa who too is a foundation and Isa who is the end. This making iterative case for them, then says we believe the first and last are as significant as each other, while the start of the verse is making the case the ones in the middle are also very signficiant.

And so in the branches which Isa is the last of with respect to Musa, we don't distinguish between belief in who is more important or less. They are all significantly important and have to be accepted. The branches of foundation are not less significant then the foundation and founder.

And so we this contextualizes the concept of branches.

In Surah A'raaf it starts with the fact that we ought follow what is revealed by God and not follow other then God - Awliya.

It then emphasizes that those who didn't follow people such as Shuaib (a) were destroyed.

Getting to Mohammad (s) it says believers follow him and find him the Torah and Gospels among them. It also emphasizes on following the light revealed with him. It then emphasizes the authority in heavens and earth belongs to God and to follow Mohammad (s).

It then goes on to emphasize something significant with respect to not distinguish again.

And from the people of Musa was a way/course that guided by the truth and thereby they established justice


We saw earlier branches was emphasized with about not distinguishing between belief in Messengers but giving them all importance. Here we see they are all one way, one course.

But then the Quran says:

"And we divided them into twelve branches as ways...."

From one perspective, they are all one way, and from another they are branches of the foundation, and the means to follow Musa (a). Thereby to truly obey Musa (a), you have to obey and follow his successors who were one way from one perspective, but also split into twelve branches as ways in themselves individually.

This concept of branches leads to a concept a blessed pure tree from God that is his word of light. And we see in Surah Ibrahim this concept is mentioned and Ismail is mentioned therein as well.

Yusuf (a) is significant person as well. He is branches of the branches of Ibrahim (a).

In this respect, Mohammad (s) said with respect to his own branches:

"Hussain is from me and I am from Hussain. God loves who loves Hussain. Indeed Hussain is one of the branches (Asbaat)"


This hadith is deemed authentic by Sunni scholars.

More about groupings to continue.
 
Last edited:

Link

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Salam

On the same points, the same chapter (7th) continues to emphasize "And from who we created is a path/course that guide by the truth and thereby do justice" linking it back to what was mentioned about the successors of Musa (a) with the present and future.

We see emphasis that they are signs of God and that who God leads astray has no guide.
Before that is also a significant relationship with God's Names. We see in Quran God has one name per Quran, but here it's mentioned in plural as in a few other places as well.

This goes well with that they are one path and the name of God from one perspective, but also split into paths and individually are all names of God from another perspective.

This also goes well with why we should not distinguish between any of them. They are God's signs and holy names and face and means to reach God. Therefore if submitting to God is the purpose, one is not more significant in terms of belief then the other.

We have to accept all of these ways who God appointed to be means and guidance from him.
 

Link

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Salam

I will continue with this theme for a while. One of the amazing features of Quran is how it has mentioned Elyas (a) in exactly two places, but very calculatively.

Indeed to understand the two places and order he is mentioned therein, is to understand all of Islam.

I will leave this comment as a sort of hype up. And then will explain the two places and order he appears therein with respect to the two chapters and theme therein.
 

Link

Veteran Member
Premium Member
The two Chapters Elyas are mentioned in are Surah Anaam (6) and Surah Saffat (37).

In the 6th Chapter, there is heavy contrast made by the light of guidance of God vs darkness of religion from Satan and the practices comparison. It brings the worse potential and contrasts that religion with that of the light of God.

Elyas (a) during his time faced polytheistic religions and more of the dark arts nature as well that were in line with misguiding devils from the Jinn. So it makes sense to be put in this chapter, because of the contrast between the two types of claimed guidance of God.

The chapter also heavily emphasizes on bringing proof for practices from either knowledge or revelation from God. That nothing should be attributed to God without knowledge.

But something occurs weird almost. Yahya is successor of Zakariya, and Isa is successor of Yahya... yet Elyas was born before all of these.

Yet we read:

And Zakariya, and Yahya, and Isa and Elyas and all of the righteous.


Here where light is emphasized, there needs to be light from God hence in all times, and the successor of Isa is Elyas although he was born before him, he came back to take his place.

In Surah Saffat, Isa is not mentioned and instead Elyas, who like Isaac and Ismail are from family of Ibrahim, Elyas is from the family of Musa and Harun....

And all this leads to "Peace be upon the family of Yaseen" which the chapter before it (36) is linked to it in that it talks about Yaseen in the same tone the Messengers are emphasized in Surah Saffat.

And so Elyas is the last "illuminating leader" before Mohammad (S) on earth, and these two places make sense for this reason. The absence of Isa (a) mentioned there, is because, Elyas (a) is the last leader before Mohammad (s), while Isa (a) is the last sent with messengerhood and Nubuwa before Mohammad (s).

To understand the position of the illuminating leader and light from God hence is to understand what Quran is saying about the light of God.

Light of God is with all beings, but it's saying, God will also manifest who is channeling that light from humans, and delegate the task of guidance to that person.


This order of the Prophets mentioned again is not random, but calculative. More will be said about order of chosen ones mentioned in Quran and their names, and that these verses are tactical in who they mention and why with respect to the Quran or Chapter.
 

Link

Veteran Member
Premium Member
The next two groupings I want to talk about is one "Moses and Aaron", and their names are paired up 12 times in Quran, while Aaron appears total of 20 times in Quran. Both of these are not coincidental in numbers, but I want to talk more about where they appear with respect to the chapter. Harun is so calculative where mentioned, but then we have to see where same story is found but he is not mentioned and only Moses. This is calculative too. There maybe several posts for this, as this is a very long task.

Another grouping which I may do first, because it's shorter and easier, is the grouping of "Nuh, Ibrahim, Musa, and Isa" with respect to Mohammad (s) and particularly how they are always mentioned with the topic of disputes especially after the founder. They are mentioned with respect to disputes and differences and another place hinted with disbelieve in the covenants (in chapter 33). This is so calculative, and particular, that it's scary. Then we have to see why these four are mentioned with respect to Mohammad (s) and disputes.
 

Link

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Nuh, Ibrahim, Musa, Isa and Mohammad in Surah 33 and 42.


In Surah 33, we read

The Prophet has more right/authority over the believers then themselves, and his wives are (as if) their mothers, and the possessors of family/blood relationship/kinship, some of them have more right/authority then others, in the book of God, from the travellers/emigrants and the believers - only that you to your Masters/Authorities (Awliya) do goodness - indeed this is written in the book. And when God took the covenant of the Prophets and with you, and from Noah and Abraham and Moses and Jesus son of Mary and we took them a firm covenant. That he may question the truthful for their truthfulness and has prepared the disbelievers a painful chastisement. (33:6-8)

The chapter goes on to remind: "God only desires to make the uncleanness to be off of you o people of the House and purify you a (thorough) purification" (33:33) And that with respect to those people attribute purity to as opposed to who God declares pure and purifies in the minds of humans with proofs, "we follow our great ones and leaders so they lead us astray from the path" and says "Indeed we gave the trust to heavens and earth and mountains and they refused to carry it, and the human has carried it, indeed he was (in this regard) ignorant, unjust"

The authority and right of the Prophet (s) to be followed and loved to the degree of relying on his guidance to rely on God's guidance, and his station of leadership, is something that we don't get to choose. We don't choose who is leader and represents God. He and his family/possessors of kinship are high above others but it's God who manifests them, they were not manifested through human reputation.

Nuh, Ibrahim, and Musa and Isa are named and mentioned to emphasize on disputes. In this regard, breaking the covenant of the Prophets is emphasized after 33:6, and so the Wilayat of Mohammad (s) and his family (a) can similarly be broken and that covenant not fulfilled.

In chapter 42, we read similarly:

And those who take Awliya other then him, God is a guardian over them, and you aren’t responsible over them. And thus we revealed an Arabic Recitation, that you may warn the mother of the towns, and those around it, and warn about the day of gathering, there is no doubt concerning it, a portion in the garden and a portion in the blaze. And if God wished, he would have made them into one nation, but rather, he enters who he wants in his mercy, and the oppressors/unjust, will have no Wali nor a helper.


Or is that they’ve taken Awliya other then Him? Then verily God is the Wali and he gives life to the dead and he has power over all things.

The tone so far is clearly about establishing and clarifying a Wilayah God has with his creatures and humans that are not meant to be given to others.

And whatever you dispute about with regards to anything then the judgment is for God, that is God my Lord, upon Him to do I rely and to Him do I turn. The originator of the heavens and the earth, he has made from yourselves mates and from the cattle mates, He warns you there is nothing like Him And he is the Hearing Seeing. To him belongs the keys of the heavens and the earth he amplifies in sustenance who he wishes and measures, indeed he has knowledge of all things.


This will be repeatedly reminded that God is the sustainer and God in this chapter links to this unique relationship he has, and with the need of guidance from Him. The judgment belongs to God and here its’ emphasizing its not Mohammad’s judgment, but God’s judgment is that which we need to implement, and so while God’s judgment is revealed through Mohammad, the intention is that God is the judge.

He has explained for you the religion of what he enjoined Nuh, and that which we revealed to you, and what we enjoined upon Ibrahim, and Musa and Isa; In that uphold the religion and to not split regarding it, greatly hard is for those who associate what you call them to; God distinguishes for himself who he wishes and guides to him who turns.

The theme of this Surah is thus going to be what has been enjoined in all times which is submission to God, and hence Wilayah of God includes this. But how do we submit, and “what we revealed to you” meaning, revelation of Mohamad is also an instance of where this principle is revealed and following what is revealed to Mohammad is to follow God. It emphasizes not to differ with respect to the religion and so we can see, if we are sincere to God and do not associate with Him, we will not differ with respect to the religion. Before it was said, God could have made us into one nation, but will enter who he wishes into his mercy.

And they didn’t split except after there came to them knowledge, out of rebellion between them, and were it not for a word preceding from God towards an appointed term, it would’ve been determined between them and those who inherited the book after them, are in a disquieting doubt concerning it.

The word preceding here is important, as we will see in 42:24. Again, we see God has a right to be adhered to and his religion united on, and that we do not split from the truth regarding it. We will see instructions on how not to split. As opposed to rebellion, we will be asked something else.

Thus go on inviting, and go straight as you are commanded, and do not follow their desires, and say I believe what has been revealed by God from a book, and I am commanded to do set justice between you, God is our Lord and your Lord, for us is our deeds and for you your deeds, there is no plea (as an excuse) between us and you God will bring us together and to Him is the goal.

Here it’s emphasizing God has commanded Mohammad to set justice in society and whatever has been revealed to him, is a book among many books that God has revealed in the past. And to everyone belongs their own responsibility and that God is the goal in all this.

So as for those who dispute regarding God after he has been responded to, there argument is nullified with their Lord and upon them is wrath and for them is a severe chastisement. It is God who revealed the book in Truth and the balance, and what may make you know the Hour maybe close?

This emphasizing again, that accepting or rejecting Mohamad is not about him, but about God. Since it’ God’s revelation and his words and him establishing a proof and it’s his Wilayah that is contended and that is all revealed in truth.

Those who do not believe in it would hasten it, while those who believe are afraid of it and know its the truth, indeed those who dispute regarding the hour are in a clear error. God is gracious to his servants, he sustains who he wishes, indeed God is Powerful, Mighty. Any who desires the tilth of the next world, we will increase him in his tilth, and whoever desires the tilth of this world, we give some of it and these will have no portion in the next world.

These are important verses in that, God can give two types of sustenance, one pertaining to this world and one pertaining to the next. His Wilayah is a guarantee for the next world, and its this regard disbelievers have no Wali, and its this sustenance that we should sacrifice worldly sustenance for.

You see the oppressors/unjust fearful by what they’ve earned and it’s to befall them, and those who believe and do good deeds are in the pleasures of the garden for them is what they wish from their Lord that is the great grace.

This contextualizes that God’s graciousness is that he wishes to give us everything we wish for but there are consequences for being an oppressor or unjust person. This was all making way, and so far, it is arguing the Wilayah of God is the goal in all this. Keeping this theme in mind, it has prepared the way to 42:23 nicely.

That is the good news that God gives his servants that believe and do good deeds. Say: No reward do I ask for it except the love in the kin and whoever does a goodness, we increase them therein in its beauty, verily God is Forgiving, Appreciative.

This is the verse, and we saw so far it emphasizes on God’s Wilayah, “love in the kin” is obviously connected to what God will forgive us and appreciate our deeds on account of by the ending, and to what is a goodness that God wishes to increase us in it’s beauty.

Somethings to mention about the word love here, is that this type is not the type in English where we can have for abstract things for example “I love to play video games”. This word is the type of love people have for other humans they appreciate, honor and have affection for. It is the type that includes affection. Just as it does not make sense to have compassion for abstract or non-living things, it is the same with this word.


Also, it is the disbelievers who see Mohammad as seeking a reward for the message, but then states that which they accuse him as the reward he seeks to be only love of the kinsfolk chosen by God and intertwined with his guidance.

Or do they say he has forged a lie against God? So, if God wishes, he can seal our heart and make the falsehood disappear, and establish the truth through his words, verily he is aware of the secret of the hearts.

This goes in line with the reward he seeks is not really a reward, but from the viewpoint of the disbelievers, Prophets look greedy for power, and put’s Mohammad on the defensive, and here God is advocating on his behalf, even if Mohammad was a forger, God still can make the falsehood disappear and verify the truth with his words, and so they would have to seek a different Prophet then him is all. Not that God would leave humans to themselves! The Quran is words from God, but in this regard, so is Mohammad, and so his family. They are words preceding from God as alluded to earlier and they are the living breathing Quran where its light resides.

Its saying Mohammad and his family were false, then where is the words of God by which he verifies the truth and makes falsehood disappear.

There would a kinsfolk to hold on to and love and get guided by no matter what. This is one way the Quran argues, that, there must be guidance from God and talks about the exact structure it must have. The structure of a divinely chosen kinsfolk is something that occurred in all times.
 

Link

Veteran Member
Premium Member
And he it is that accepts repentance from his servants and pardons the evil deeds and knows what you do. And he answers those who believe and do good deeds, and gives them more out of his grace, and for the unbelievers, they will have a severe punishment.

Here we see its emphasizing back that this is God’s Wilayah, and so love of the family of Mohammad is asked but is so God’s Wilayah with them is established.

And if God should amplify the sustenance to his servants, they would have rebelled in the earth, but rather he brings down by measure what he pleases, indeed he is aware seeing regarding his servants. And he it is who sends down rains of his mercy, after they have despaired and unfolds his mercy, and he is the Wali Praiseworthy.

Again, we see God linking and reminding of his sustaining nature with the Wilayah he has.

And from his signs is that he created the heavens and the earth and put into them creatures and he can bring them together if he wishes. And whatever afflictions befalls you, it is on account of what your hands have done and he pardons regarding a lot. And you cannot escape him in the earth, and you have no Wali or helper besides God.

Again, we see that God is saying the religion and authority, and reward they see Mohammad seeking, is due to God’s relationship and Wilayah with his creation. We have no Wali besides God and the Wilayah has been described.

And from his signs are the ships that are like banners in the sea.

This refers to his Messengers, they come as groups and are Captains to the ship of salvation by which the name of God is its’ sailing and anchoring.

God is emphasizing he establishes these ships to guide humans, and Mohammad if he were a forger, God would establish a ship to guide through that as well and clarify the truth.

If he wishes, he may cause the wind to come to a standstill on it’s back, most surely in this is a sign for every patient grateful one. Or he may cause them to perish for what they have earned, and he pardons over much. And those who dispute the signs of God may know, there is for them no escape.

He is saying this ship of salvation is blessed by God’s Name and it’s sailing and anchoring is by God’s Name and if he pleases, he can make it come to a standstill, but through sending Mohammad, it’s meant not to. Another possibility is then mention, or he may cause destruction of the people, as he did with past nations. And he pardons over much. And we can’t escape God’s Wilayah, and hence, we should accept the ones God has chosen to guide us through.

Therefore, whatever you’ve been given of anything is for the pleasures of the life of this world, and what is with your Lord is better and more lasting for those who believe and rely on their Lord.

This emphasizing again that God’s Wilayah is an everlasting reward, no one can we invest with regards to the next world, but God.

Those who avoid the greater evils and indecencies and whenever they are angry, they forgive. And those who respond to their Lord and establishing the prayer, and their command is consultation between themselves and who spend what we wish out of sustenance.

Here its emphasizing that responding to Mohammad (s) and his family (a), is in fact, responding to God. Then it talks about the command structure of believers, is consultation between themselves and shows they won’t try to be tyrants over themselves but rather they council one another with the advice of Mohammad and his family, and try to learn from one another with respect to the religion.

And those who when rebellion afflicts them, defend themselves. And the recompense of an evil is an evil like it, so whoever pardons and sets aright, so his reward is with God, indeed God doesn’t like the oppressors. And whoever defends themselves after they are oppressed, there is no way against them. The way is against those who oppress humans, and who rebel in the earth without right, for them is a great punishment.

These verses show despite believers swallowing their anger, they defend themselves when rebelled against. Another form also is when they are oppressed. Both these situations, God has allowed believers to defend themselves. And then says God’s way is against those who oppress humans and who rebel in the earth without right. And this is part of God’s Wilayah, is that he is establishing the right of the oppressed and giving them leaders who will guide them against their oppressors.

And whoever is patient and forgives, so this is of the honorable affairs. And whoever God misguides, there is no Wali after Him, and when they see the punishment, will ask, is there a way of return?

This is telling them again; this Wilayah is for those get guided by God and whoever God misguides will have no Wali in this sense. So, its not about the family of Mohammad, really, but about God’s Wilayah.

And you shall see them brought before it, humbling themselves because of the abasements, looking with a faint glance. And those who believe shall say: Surely the losers are they who have lost themselves and their followers on the resurrection day. Now surely the oppressors shall remain in a chastisement that lasts. And there were no Awliya to help them from other then God and whoever God misguides, there is no way for them.

This shows the path of guidance, the path of Ahlulbayt laid out for people, is from God and God’s Wilayah is linked with that, and whoever God misguides, there is no alternative way. That is why the Prophet is told to say in 42:23, and God is the one saying it, to love them the kinsfolk who recognizing is linked to recognizing God’s Wilayah on his creatures. And this why its saying they have no Awliya other then God in this respect.

Respond to your Lord before there comes a day whence there is no one to repel it, you have no asylum this day, nor any room for denial. And so if they turn away then we have no sent you as a guardian over them, upon you is just the conveyance, and if we make the human taste of our mercy, he exults in it, and if an evil afflicts them, on account of what their own actions have earned, they are ungrateful.

This is asking us to respond to Mohammad(s) and his family(a) for the sake of God, and that responding to them is responding to God and our intention should be for God. Then it emphasizes those with gratitude and humble natures will benefit from this favor of God, while the arrogant and ungrateful will not, due to their insolence towards their Lord.

To God belongs the authority of the heavens and the earth he gives who he wishes females and gives who he wishes males. Or he gathers them males and females and makes who he wishes barren, indeed God is knowing capable.

This emphasizing God’s wisdom in giving Fatima (s) as a legacy to Mohammad (s), and Hassan (a) and Hussain (a) from her to Ali (a), and who he gave who to, has its’ wisdom. And Mohammad(s) not having male heirs, is of God’s wisdom. All this is to establish his authority on earth, just as it in heaven.

And it is not fitting for a human that God speaks them unless behind a veil or sending a Messenger and revealing by his permission what he wishes indeed he is exalted, wise.

This a huge revelation in that, it reminds, that God speaks through veils and so Mohammad (s) and his family, must trust veils. Either Angels, or themselves. And so, the highest veils they can trust themselves and those like them, trustworthy holy spirits, but the case with normal humans, is they can not trust their own selves as veils. And how can we, when we do not have the power to discern between God’s veils and Satanic veils and his minions?

And thus have We revealed You a Spirit of Our command. You knew not what the Scripture was, nor what the Faith but We have made it a light whereby We guide whom We will of Our Servants. And indeed, you guide them to a straight path.

God shows that the spirit of his command, in Mohammad and his family, are the light by which he guides humans, and his call to himself and his family, is in fact, calling them to guidance as they guide the straight path.

The path of God Whose is whatsoever is in the heavens and whatsoever is in the earth; now surely to God do all affairs eventually come.

Then to summarize what has been emphasized, calls this path, the path of God. Its’ his path, established by him, and its his light that has been vested in Mohammad(s) and his family (a).

We can see clearly here, that, the family of Mohammad (s) were meant to be adhered to and followed.

And these four are mentioned in this chapter, because it heavily emphasizes not to dispute their authority and not to split into sects but to adhere to God's Wilayah through them and God has a unique Wilayah on his creation.

And so they are calculative in how they are mentioned.
 

Link

Veteran Member
Premium Member
So we the mention of these four is calculative with respect to disputes with regards to after Mohammad (s) and with regards to his family (a) needing to be adhered to. Nuh (a) was sent after successors of Adam (a) were not accepted and instead leaders appointed by humans were and this lead to corruption of the generations and he couldn't save them. Musa (a) is a founder, and Isa (a) is an end, and to follow them truly, is to follow the chosen ones between Musa (a) and Isa (a) was well. As that didn't happen, people over emphasized on either Musa (a) or Isa (a) and couldn't see that chosen ones exist in all times.

Ibrahim (a) is emphasized and in Quran, his chosen offspring and chosen family is heavily emphasized. And so there is that link, and that to be truly born of Ibrahim, is to follow a leader from God, and so that is the proper creed. His successors and family were part of the creed of Abraham. The branches are emphasized with respect to Ibrahim (a) in Quran, branches like Ismail (a), Isaac (a), Yaqoub (a) and hence you know without mention Yusuf (a) is such a branch.

So this is a warning not to repeat the disputing and making our own leaders, rather then submitting to leaders appointed by God. Nuh (a) was the 9th Successor of Adam (a) per the Bible.

Both the chapters where these four are emphasized on together, emphasize on the family of Mohammad (s) (33:6, 33:33) and (42:23).
 
Last edited:

stevecanuck

Well-Known Member
Somethings are binary, somethings are relative to each other.

The signs while hidden to some degree are almost manifest to some degree. Their utmost manifestation is on the day of judgment.

So much for "So have I made the Qur'an easy".
 

Link

Veteran Member
Premium Member
The next two groupings I want to talk about is one "Moses and Aaron", and their names are paired up 12 times in Quran, while Aaron appears total of 20 times in Quran.

Coming soon to a theater near you. This is going to be long and I will try to simplify and make it as short as possible.
 
Top