stevecanuck
Well-Known Member
Right, which males it preaching rather than debating.
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Signs of eloquence in Quran
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Right, which males it preaching rather than debating.
How so?
stevecanuck
Well-Known Member
Sorry, but if you can't see the difference between preaching and debating, then we're done. I feel done.
You tend to assert a lot of things without elaborating or proving.
stevecanuck
Well-Known Member
This sort of thing. You quote the qur'an in a preaching manner:
Another amazing point is how it reminds of God's existence, and how it emphasized particularly on God's sight of us to remind of himself:
Does he think that no one sees him? (90:7)
Does he not know God sees? (96:14)
stevecanuck
Well-Known Member
Right. The qur'an is from God because the qur'an says it's from God.
This is not what I'm saying, I'm saying for Theists who believe in God, they should take notice the argument for God's existence in Quran and which one God emphasized on. He emphasized on very eloquent way to remember his existence without being overbearing to the reader nor is it silent that we can't take notice, but between that - a middle ground approach. And this how Quran proves everything almost, in a middle approach without being over assertive nor under assertive, but allowing reflecting and easing the readers into it and into it's proofs and wonders.
This is just us scratching the surface with a particular argument and why God chose it, with respect to reminding of his existence, over all arguments, and it's a major sign to those who accept the argument or at least, per me, should be, that the Quran is from God.
Matching eloquence:
Whatever is in the heavens and whatever is in the earth glorifies Allah, the King (1a), the Holy(2a), the Mighty(3a), the Wise(4a).
It is He who sent to the mother town people an apostle from among themselves, to recite to them His signs (1b), to purify them (2b), and to teach them the Book (3b) and wisdom(4b), and earlier they had indeed been in manifest error.
These are first two verses of Surah Friday/Jumaa
1a to 1b: As for King and his authority, it's proven through signs in form of miracles by his appointed kings who are signs of God and are his means of establishing his authority.
2a to 2b: Holiness and purity are linked in that holiness is an exalted level of purity.
3a to 3b: His books is said to be mighty(azeez) in another verse and has honor and mighty tone for anyone who reads it and God's words are honorable and cause us to fear him and revere him, and Quran emphasized it's only those who fear God that will be truly guided by Quran so his mightiness is linked to being taught the Quran.
4a to 4b: The wise sent a Messenger who teaches us the wisdom a long with his book, link is obvious.
This is really outstanding yet so subtle.
This is very eloquent, in my view. This is also the only place where 4 titles are mentioned in sequence after Allah (swt), other places are either two or a lot more (plenty of names). So this had a very good reason for the four emphasis which might seem odd with how Quranic verses are usually with two.
Whatever is in the heavens and whatever is in the earth glorifies Allah, the King (1a), the Holy(2a), the Mighty(3a), the Wise(4a).
It is He who sent to the mother town people an apostle from among themselves, to recite to them His signs (1b), to purify them (2b), and to teach them the Book (3b) and wisdom(4b), and earlier they had indeed been in manifest error.
These are first two verses of Surah Friday/Jumaa
1a to 1b: As for King and his authority, it's proven through signs in form of miracles by his appointed kings who are signs of God and are his means of establishing his authority.
2a to 2b: Holiness and purity are linked in that holiness is an exalted level of purity.
3a to 3b: His books is said to be mighty(azeez) in another verse and has honor and mighty tone for anyone who reads it and God's words are honorable and cause us to fear him and revere him, and Quran emphasized it's only those who fear God that will be truly guided by Quran so his mightiness is linked to being taught the Quran.
4a to 4b: The wise sent a Messenger who teaches us the wisdom a long with his book, link is obvious.
This is really outstanding yet so subtle.
This is very eloquent, in my view. This is also the only place where 4 titles are mentioned in sequence after Allah (swt), other places are either two or a lot more (plenty of names). So this had a very good reason for the four emphasis which might seem odd with how Quranic verses are usually with two.
stevecanuck
Well-Known Member
That was 100% preaching. You should take that nonsense elsewhere.
The topic is about signs of eloquence in Quran, in case you didn't know.
stevecanuck
Well-Known Member
Correct. And it doesn't belong here.
stevecanuck
Well-Known Member
Good bye and salaam.
Salam
There is another feature of Quran which payed attention to is pretty awesome. It's the way chronologically the Surahs expand on one another or summarize one another.
This feature can be seen for example in the first Chapter (Al-Fatiha), we pray for guidance, and then it emphasizes that this book there is no doubt in it a guidance to those who guard (against God's wrath). The very writing itself of that chapter also emphasizes on the chosen leaders such as Adam, Abraham, Talut, the branches of Abraham such as Joseph (peace be upon them all), and talks about in detail what bani-Israel did with the guidance they were given in form of scriptures as well divinely appointed kings among them.
On the way to verse 2:255 which is the peak of Quran, it talks about the story of Talut (a) who was poor but had immense knowledge from God and was given authority from God. It than emphasizes that authority is in the family of Moses and family of Aaron (peace be upon them all), and with the singular tarak (left behind) it's understood the household of Moses is the household of Aaron per Quran and authority is given to that holy family. It also tells of the bravery of the followers of Talut (a) who when outnumbered were able to vanquish their enemies. This leads perfectly into the next Surah. The next Surah is basically an expansion of that but relates it to Mohammad (s).
Some brief display of this, is that the family of Imran is emphasized on, and that's also the same family of Musa and Aaron. It talks about the believers and the help they received from Angels in battle when outnumbered.
And going back to the "he gives his authority to who he pleases" in the previous chapter, we find it relates to Mohammad (s) "O my God Master of the Authority, you give the authority to who you please and negate the authority from who you please, and honor who you please and disgrace who you please, in your hands is the good, indeed you have power over all things".
This relationship of one chapter to another is amazing feature of Quran. The emphasis on the family of Abraham alongside family of Imran, is also a leading on to the next chapter. This was emphasized with obeying God and the Messenger and following Mohammad (s) if we love God.
It also in a way shows how God answered the prayers at the end of Surah 2, with respect to the companions of Mohammad (s).
In the 4th Chapter, the allusion to Family of Ibrahim (a) is highly important as it talks about the household of Abraham's authority and the grace of God upon them to give context to the Ulil-Amr (possessors of the Authority) from us. The "from you" is obvious by the talk that similarly we been given a family that holds authority like the family of Abraham had the authority and the grace of God regarding the families chosen for guiding humanity is immense.
Now what is amazing is how this all goes back to the first chapter and introduction. The Quran said "guide us the straight bridge" but doesn't stop there, and says "The path of those who you favored (humanity) regarding them..." while these words can be seen in many ways, in flow of 4:59 it finally concludes "And whoever obeys God and the Messenger so these are with those who he has favored (humanity) regarding them from the Prophets and Veracious and Witnesses and Righteous and beautiful/good are these as company!".
The Quran always talks about those who God has favored (humanity) regarding to be the chosen ones, and you will see this emphasis through out Quran. Of course, there is sometimes where it talks about who God favored with wealth and also who God favored in general in case of Zaid and who Mohammad (S) also favored (Zaid), but most of the places it emphasizes on the chosen:
أُولَٰئِكَ الَّذِينَ أَنْعَمَ اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِمْ مِنَ النَّبِيِّينَ مِنْ ذُرِّيَّةِ آدَمَ وَمِمَّنْ حَمَلْنَا مَعَ نُوحٍ وَمِنْ ذُرِّيَّةِ إِبْرَاهِيمَ وَإِسْرَائِيلَ وَمِمَّنْ هَدَيْنَا وَاجْتَبَيْنَا ۚ إِذَا تُتْلَىٰ عَلَيْهِمْ آيَاتُ الرَّحْمَٰنِ خَرُّوا سُجَّدًا وَبُكِيًّا
These are they who God has favored (humanity) regarding them from the prophets of Adam’s progeny, and from [the progeny of] those We carried with Noah, and from among the progeny of Abraham and Israel, and from among those that We guided and chose. When the signs of the All-beneficent were recited to them, they would fall down weeping in prostration.
And this way Quran explains itself and explains the first chapter, is an amazing feature it has.
Regarding Isa (a) it also says is but a servant who God has favored (humanity) regarding and was made an example to Bani-Israel but else where talked about him being a word preceding from God and a spirit from him so we can see being servant who God favors humanity regarding is no small feet!
The chapter 5 also then flows with the previous 4 chapters. And I will discuss this is the next post inshallah.
There is another feature of Quran which payed attention to is pretty awesome. It's the way chronologically the Surahs expand on one another or summarize one another.
This feature can be seen for example in the first Chapter (Al-Fatiha), we pray for guidance, and then it emphasizes that this book there is no doubt in it a guidance to those who guard (against God's wrath). The very writing itself of that chapter also emphasizes on the chosen leaders such as Adam, Abraham, Talut, the branches of Abraham such as Joseph (peace be upon them all), and talks about in detail what bani-Israel did with the guidance they were given in form of scriptures as well divinely appointed kings among them.
On the way to verse 2:255 which is the peak of Quran, it talks about the story of Talut (a) who was poor but had immense knowledge from God and was given authority from God. It than emphasizes that authority is in the family of Moses and family of Aaron (peace be upon them all), and with the singular tarak (left behind) it's understood the household of Moses is the household of Aaron per Quran and authority is given to that holy family. It also tells of the bravery of the followers of Talut (a) who when outnumbered were able to vanquish their enemies. This leads perfectly into the next Surah. The next Surah is basically an expansion of that but relates it to Mohammad (s).
Some brief display of this, is that the family of Imran is emphasized on, and that's also the same family of Musa and Aaron. It talks about the believers and the help they received from Angels in battle when outnumbered.
And going back to the "he gives his authority to who he pleases" in the previous chapter, we find it relates to Mohammad (s) "O my God Master of the Authority, you give the authority to who you please and negate the authority from who you please, and honor who you please and disgrace who you please, in your hands is the good, indeed you have power over all things".
This relationship of one chapter to another is amazing feature of Quran. The emphasis on the family of Abraham alongside family of Imran, is also a leading on to the next chapter. This was emphasized with obeying God and the Messenger and following Mohammad (s) if we love God.
It also in a way shows how God answered the prayers at the end of Surah 2, with respect to the companions of Mohammad (s).
In the 4th Chapter, the allusion to Family of Ibrahim (a) is highly important as it talks about the household of Abraham's authority and the grace of God upon them to give context to the Ulil-Amr (possessors of the Authority) from us. The "from you" is obvious by the talk that similarly we been given a family that holds authority like the family of Abraham had the authority and the grace of God regarding the families chosen for guiding humanity is immense.
Now what is amazing is how this all goes back to the first chapter and introduction. The Quran said "guide us the straight bridge" but doesn't stop there, and says "The path of those who you favored (humanity) regarding them..." while these words can be seen in many ways, in flow of 4:59 it finally concludes "And whoever obeys God and the Messenger so these are with those who he has favored (humanity) regarding them from the Prophets and Veracious and Witnesses and Righteous and beautiful/good are these as company!".
The Quran always talks about those who God has favored (humanity) regarding to be the chosen ones, and you will see this emphasis through out Quran. Of course, there is sometimes where it talks about who God favored with wealth and also who God favored in general in case of Zaid and who Mohammad (S) also favored (Zaid), but most of the places it emphasizes on the chosen:
أُولَٰئِكَ الَّذِينَ أَنْعَمَ اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِمْ مِنَ النَّبِيِّينَ مِنْ ذُرِّيَّةِ آدَمَ وَمِمَّنْ حَمَلْنَا مَعَ نُوحٍ وَمِنْ ذُرِّيَّةِ إِبْرَاهِيمَ وَإِسْرَائِيلَ وَمِمَّنْ هَدَيْنَا وَاجْتَبَيْنَا ۚ إِذَا تُتْلَىٰ عَلَيْهِمْ آيَاتُ الرَّحْمَٰنِ خَرُّوا سُجَّدًا وَبُكِيًّا
These are they who God has favored (humanity) regarding them from the prophets of Adam’s progeny, and from [the progeny of] those We carried with Noah, and from among the progeny of Abraham and Israel, and from among those that We guided and chose. When the signs of the All-beneficent were recited to them, they would fall down weeping in prostration.
And this way Quran explains itself and explains the first chapter, is an amazing feature it has.
Regarding Isa (a) it also says is but a servant who God has favored (humanity) regarding and was made an example to Bani-Israel but else where talked about him being a word preceding from God and a spirit from him so we can see being servant who God favors humanity regarding is no small feet!
The chapter 5 also then flows with the previous 4 chapters. And I will discuss this is the next post inshallah.
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stevecanuck
Well-Known Member
The first Muslims would have known none of this because it was not presented to them in this order. This therefore makes no sense.
It would make no sense if there was no divine planner all along but the order of chapters and relationship to one another is there and wisdom in the order is there.
stevecanuck
Well-Known Member
You ignored my point. It was NOT presented in this order, yet the first Muslims understood it anyway.
stevecanuck
Well-Known Member
I have another theory as to the compilation order of the qur'an. If it were presented chronologically, nobody would read it. The first 86 surahs from Mecca are mind-numbingly boring. They repeat the same things over and over and over. To make it worse, they introduce almost nothing new. It wasn't until the hijrah that anything new (including the sixth pillar - fighting) was introduced. The qur'an in an unholy mess.