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Featured Should there be harmony between science and religion?

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by adrian009, Oct 26, 2018.

?
  1. Yes

    28.3%
  2. No

    17.4%
  3. Usually

    6.5%
  4. Usually not

    26.1%
  5. It doesn't matter

    13.0%
  6. I don't know

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  7. This poll doesn't reflect my thinking

    8.7%
  1. nPeace

    nPeace Well-Known Member

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    Why do you quote the Bible, when you don't believe it?
     
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  2. 2ndpillar

    2ndpillar Well-Known Member

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    And why do you make false witness? The OT is the Law and the prophets, which is the rock the church is built on (Isaiah 28:16), for it is the spirit of prophecy (Matthew 16:16). The testimony of Yeshua, the "spirit of prophesy" (Revelation 19:10) is also true, and the stone that Zion is built on. What the "tare seed" is, is the testimony of the false prophet Paul, and his associates, and the power structure he set up in the "Christian" church, which is built upon his false gospel of grace/cross. That power structure was to last until the "end of the age" per Matthew 13:30 & 40), and then be gathered up "first", and burnt.
     
  3. j1i

    j1i Smiling is charity without giving money

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    brother
    I live where is more closer to jesus
    there is a lot of old gospel text tells different stories
     
  4. Milton Platt

    Milton Platt Well-Known Member

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    Since the findings of science are based upon experimentation, observation, and confirmation, science should always be accepted over simple dogmatic assertions which lack sufficient evidence tomsupport belief or that directly contradict what we actually know about the universe.
    This does not mean science is perfect, or that it’s conclusions are always correct, but it is demostrably better than believing unsubstantiated claims.
     
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  5. nPeace

    nPeace Well-Known Member

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    We live in a world where we have to make decisions as to what we will believe, and why we will believe what we believe.
    I believe the choice we make will either be that we have been misled, or we have not been misled. Matthew 7:15;

    So the question I think that is most important is, do we have a means of determining what is truth?
    2 Timothy 3:14-17
    14 You, however, continue in the things that you learned and were persuaded to believe, knowing from whom you learned them 15 and that from infancy you have known the holy writings, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. 16 All Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining in righteousness, 17 so that the man of God may be fully competent, completely equipped for every good work.

    Who believed it?
    Van den Broek writes in the email that "in Egypt, the Bible had already become canonized in the fourth/fifth century, but apocryphal stories and books remained popular among the Egyptian Christians, especially among monks."

    Whereas the people of the monastery would have believed the newly translated text, "in particular the more simple monks," he's not convinced that the writer of the text believed everything he was writing down, van den Broek said.

    "I find it difficult to believe that he really did, but some details, for instance the meal with Jesus, he may have believed to have really happened," van den Broek writes. "The people of that time, even if they were well-educated, did not have a critical historical attitude. Miracles were quite possible, and why should an old story not be true?"

    So what will we believe?

    2 Corinthians 11:12-15
    12 But what I am doing I will continue to do, in order to eliminate the pretext of those who are wanting a basis for being found equal to us in the things about which they boast. 13For such men are false apostles, deceitful workers, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ. 14And no wonder, for Satan himself keeps disguising himself as an angel of light. 15It is therefore nothing extraordinary if his ministers also keep disguising themselves as ministers of righteousness. But their end will be according to their works.

    Galatians 1:6-9

    6I am amazed that you are so quickly turning away from the One who called you with Christ’s undeserved kindness to another sort of good news. 7 Not that there is another good news; but there are certain ones who are causing you trouble and wanting to distort the good news about the Christ. 8However, even if we or an angel out of heaven were to declare to you as good news something beyond the good news we declared to you, let him be accursed. 9As we have said before, I now say again, Whoever is declaring to you as good news something beyond what you accepted, let him be accursed.
     
  6. adrian009

    adrian009 Veteran Member
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    The Baha'i approach is similar.

    God has endowed man with intelligence and reason whereby he is required to determine the verity of questions and propositions. If religious beliefs and opinions are found contrary to the standards of science they are mere superstitions and imaginations; for the antithesis of knowledge is ignorance, and the child of ignorance is superstition. Unquestionably there must be agreement between true religion and science. If a question be found contrary to reason, faith and belief in it are impossible…
    ‘Abdu’l-Bahá

    Religion must conform to science and reason; otherwise, it is superstition. God has created man in order that he may perceive the verity of existence and endowed him with mind or reason to discover truth. Therefore, scientific knowledge and religious belief must be conformable to the analysis of this divine faculty in man.
    ‘Abdu’l-Bahá
     
  7. j1i

    j1i Smiling is charity without giving money

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    But we must look at the linguistic errors and interpretations that are made
    On the whole the Bible did not speak of Jesus dying crucified, to atone for sins






    i'm not here to say look at quran
    I was look same link without word quran to not think that i'm Encouraging you to change faith
    its not easy to find this differents
    It is strange that many civilizations reject the idea of the Trinity previously like Arianism
     
  8. j1i

    j1i Smiling is charity without giving money

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    The religions are show confusing, such as the inability of science to interpret cosmic phenomena
    Most scientists put theories that are not scientifically confirmed, but rather like cartilage in some religions
    The process is equal and it is agreed that the most difficult science is the science of God and Knowledge of God
    There are many theories that place forms of divinity
    Some say he lives on the ground and some say he sacrifices himself and some say this and that
    In mathematics there is a science call Mathematical logic
    we can use this Temporarily to know the causative of the universe
    Many underestimate the logic of the Creator and this makes us live with a cognitive setback

    for non believers in causative of the universe GOD
    We believe in logical things on Earth and oppose them in cosmology
     
    #368 j1i, Nov 20, 2018
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2018
  9. nPeace

    nPeace Well-Known Member

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    Are you looking at human opinions and interpretations, or what the Bible says? What do you think is the wise thing to do?

    The scriptures do say that Christ died for our sins. Do you not see that as well?
    Isaiah 53:5, 12; Matthew 20:28; John 1:29, 30; Romans 5:17; Romans 6:10; Philippians 2:5-8; 1 Timothy 2:5, 6; Titus 2:13, 14; Hebrews 2:9; 9:28; 1 Peter 1:18, 19; 2:24; Revelation 5:9, 10

    As I understand it, the Bible also teaches that God is one - not three.
     
  10. j1i

    j1i Smiling is charity without giving money

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    On the whole, I do not believe in these scriptures Because I think that some of the additions are human
    Because they oppose my logic
    Abraham sent Ismail to Mecca and commanded him to worship one God without Jesus or Trinity As well as Isaac and Jacob and I wanted to follow this path

    I do not want to deviate from the formulation in this topic my beloved brother

    GOD BLESS YOU brothers
    AMEN :)

    Let us complete the dialogue on science and religion :D
     
  11. nPeace

    nPeace Well-Known Member

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    My question is, how do you go about deciding which scriptures to believe and which not to believe, which belong and which doesn't?
    Your logic. How can I debate that? ;)
    On science and religion?
     
  12. j1i

    j1i Smiling is charity without giving money

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    I thank you with all my heart for this humanitarian initiative
    I do not like to engage in discussions because this creates a negative atmosphere

    first
    Let us leave the Scriptures aside

    Will America accept to be among the third world countries?

    Will America accept that the value of the dollar is equivalent to 1 yen?

    Well God will not accept that lowering his level to be a child out of the womb of a woman to receive human care?

    God does not need diplomatic representation (Diplomatic rank)

    Please read my answer clearly and reflect on it without ignoring the logical facts

    I do not believe that something is created inside a woman's belly and comes out of her womb to be a god

    with respect
    GOD bless you )^_^(
     
  13. nPeace

    nPeace Well-Known Member

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    Well, we have no quarrel then. We can actually shake hands on that, and go our merry way, because I agree with you 100%, and interesting enough, you are agreeing with what the Bible teaches. God cannot die.
     
    #373 nPeace, Nov 20, 2018
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2018
  14. j1i

    j1i Smiling is charity without giving money

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    Welcome my brother
    I enjoy dialogue in religions but I do not want to hurt others
    I accept to continue the dialogue if you wish
    But if you feel that this will hurt the feelings of others, stop
    I want to be a light guest
    lets start
    I do not want to believe in these genetically modified scriptures I mean chemist
    They are revised and some words have been modified to give another understanding
    Example
    Who bear witness in heaven three
    Blood, water, soul and not
    God and Son
    This is a frightening thing, and my acceptance of faith in these penetrated books will make me a believer in the Trinity or in faith in Jesus.
    Therefore, I believe in all the words of God revealed but the original version and truth
    Since the facts have disappeared because of the large number of The liars, I do not have the willingness to venture to believe in books suffered by the hackers


    The other challenge we face is the misinterpretation of religious texts
    People tend to interpret the Bible as they wish and not the intended fact


    As an example and to be a fair man and sincereTrustworthy
    Some Muslims resort to quoting verses of the Koran in inciting violence
    This system is driven by political, economic or colonial interests
    Such as what the Church did to encourage the crusades
    The problem is that we do not practice books honestly
    We are the greatest enemy of God because of ignorance and because of desires
    Enough a lie to God
    We carry candles of disinformation for people
    My brother apologized but we want to be honest
    I am not here for an interesting image of Islam but to understand each other from a human perspective
    The highest interest is the cultivation of moral values
    the greatest moral is respect for God, mother and father

    GOD bless you (^_^)
    amen
     
    #374 j1i, Nov 21, 2018
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2018
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  15. nPeace

    nPeace Well-Known Member

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    "genetically modified scriptures " [​IMG]
    That's a good one.

    I have no quarrel with anything you said here.
    There are corrupt men with dishonest intent, and some have made efforts to corrupt the ancient scriptures. That's why students of the Bible are careful to detect spurious insertions, like the one you referred to in 1 John 5:7.
    Some translators have decided to leave out texts that are questionable, and they cannot be certain of.

    For example...
    Regarding the long conclusion for Mark 16 (verses 9-20), the short conclusion for Mark 16, and the wording found at John 7:53–8:11, it is evident that none of these verses were included in the original manuscripts. Therefore, those spurious texts have not been included in this revision.
    You can read more from the article How the Bible Came to Us

    It's good that you are sensitive to the feelings of others, but I'm sure you agree that love is balanced? 1 Corinthians 13:4-7
    Besides, how would you find out if one would be hurt or pleased, if you don't, as you put it, "be a light guest"? :grin:
    Proverbs 9:8; 17:10;

    I try to to apply these principles.
    Proverbs 15:1 A mild answer turns away rage, But a harsh word stirs up anger.

    Colossians 4:6 Let your words always be gracious, seasoned with salt, so that you will know how you should answer each person.

    1 Peter 3:13-18 13 Indeed, who will harm you if you become zealous for what is good? 14 But even if you should suffer for the sake of righteousness, you are happy. However, do not fear what they fear, nor be disturbed. 15 But sanctify the Christ as Lord in your hearts, always ready to make a defense before everyone who demands of you a reason for the hope you have, but doing so with a mild temper and deep respect. 16 Maintain a good conscience, so that in whatever way you are spoken against, those who speak against you may be put to shame because of your good conduct as followers of Christ. 17 For it is better to suffer because you are doing good, if it is God’s will to allow it, than because you are doing evil. 18 For Christ died once for all time for sins, a righteous person for unrighteous ones, in order to lead you to God. . . .

    1 Timothy 2:3, 4 3 This is fine and acceptable in the sight of our Savior, God, 4 whose will is that all sorts of people should be saved and come to an accurate knowledge of truth.

    2 Timothy 2:24, 25 24 For a slave of the Lord does not need to fight, but needs to be gentle toward all, qualified to teach, showing restraint when wronged, 25 instructing with mildness those not favorably disposed. Perhaps God may give them repentance leading to an accurate knowledge of truth,

    2 Timothy 4:2-5 2 Preach the word; be at it urgently in favorable times and difficult times; reprove, reprimand, exhort, with all patience and art of teaching. 3 For there will be a period of time when they will not put up with the wholesome teaching, but according to their own desires, they will surround themselves with teachers to have their ears tickled. 4 They will turn away from listening to the truth and give attention to false stories. 5 You, though, keep your senses in all things, endure hardship, do the work of an evangelizer, fully accomplish your ministry.

    Titus 3:1, 2 Continue reminding them to be in subjection and to be obedient to governments and authorities, to be ready for every good work, 2 to speak injuriously of no one, not to be quarrelsome, but to be reasonable, displaying all mildness toward all men.

    I don't always remember to apply them on debate forums, but from time to time I get a reminder - like now. ;)

    I think it's important to share with persons what you think may be informative or beneficial - especially if it relates to our creator, to whom the highest honor belongs. So feel free to share what you have in mind.

    I'm sure I don't need to remind you to do so "with a mild temper and deep respect". You are doing fine. :)
     
  16. Milton Platt

    Milton Platt Well-Known Member

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    Your English is a bit garbled, but I think I follow.

    Scientific theories are always scientifically confirmed, that is how they become a theory. I don't understand the reference to cartilage.

    God is not a science. It is an unsubstantiated claim. There is no actual knowledge of a god, only unsubstantiated claims of knowledge.

    Theories are well founded, tested explanations of phenomena that make predictions and are testable. There are no such theories about a god.

    I do not know what you are meaning by your reference to mathematics. Why would knowledge we gain be temporary?

    Logic is a useful tool. I see no reason to refer to it as having anything to do with a creator,.
     
  17. j1i

    j1i Smiling is charity without giving money

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    Thank you brother for sharing and this kindness of you
    And excuse me for the weakness of English
    I respect your brother's opinion, but leave me unleashed to express my feelings :rolleyes:

    Science is the basis of research of knowledge of God
    There are some questions that will never ever be answered or get answers, what ever how the science develops

    The skeptics cannot deny creator (maker)
    The believers can prove God (creator) (maker)

    I cannot prove that i'm the son of my father and mother because I have not seen birth of the synthesis
    We cannot also watch electricity moving between wires but we can confirm its existence

    All these substances in the vast universe have a maker (causing)
    It is not reasonable to say that cars made without maker, this is a non-scientific
    Well its unreasonable to say that universe made from a non-maker
    I cannot prove that the car was made from animals that are poorly of Sensory perception and knowledge

    The presence of objects in the cosmos is evidence of a sane maker (compos mentis)
    On the whole these are Knowledge facts I can not ignore because I use my mind effectively

    There is a difference between logical facts and desires
    The desire of mankind in general loves to deny, not to thank even parents and respect them

    GOD bless you
    amen :)
     
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  18. j1i

    j1i Smiling is charity without giving money

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    I am happy to see you happy
    I hope the whole world is happy
    God's mercy covers all creatures

    thank you brother
    Muslims believe in the incapacity of Jesus to divinity or that he is God, and that GOSPEL has misled the facts
    This is very painful when I find my brothers on the way far from the truth (in my opinion)
    I want to emphasize the important issue
    It is not necessary to serve my interests or be in my side as much as it is important to be on truth

    The Qur'an says that the Trinity is a modern idea of mankind
    Qur'an warns against following Trinity or jesus became god

    After I looked logically into the subject and told you the logic Comparisons in the last replied

    GOD bless you
    amen
     
  19. Aupmanyav

    Aupmanyav Be your own guru

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    Where is the evidence for this? You start with an unproved premise.
    To believe in existence of God - and why only one that you suggest, is hardly logic.
    Then, why are you posting in a public forum?
    You are putting limits to what God should do or what he should not do. Is He the God or You?
     
    #379 Aupmanyav, Nov 22, 2018
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2018
  20. Aupmanyav

    Aupmanyav Be your own guru

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    Had we taken the view that some questions will never be answered we would not have been able to land on moon.
    Skeptics do deny the existence of Gods, and no believer till now has ever been able to prove the existence of God or claims of some people of being a prophet, son, messenger, manifestation or mahdi from this imaginary God. You think that a God is necessary for creation because you have not studied science.
     
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