Should there be a predetermined structure in worship or not?

[☆Dreamwind☆]

Religion and its rites have a long history of structure and routines. From coming together to worship with each religion putting its own spin on how clergy go about leading followers in prayer, learning, song, meditation, mysteries, or praise. Performing special rites such as baptism, initiation, communion, funerals, and marriages. To observing special customs for holy days. My family is some form of Christian or other, with roughly half being Catholic. Even some people who practice in private may choose these things. I'd say it's already pretty deeply ingrained, even if it's been watered down in some sects. If you have a good relationship with a deity, doesn't matter if it's public or private. You do not necessarily need a religious building, or ritual to worship.

 

[LuisDantas]

Every religion glorifies itself as the only way. Hence we fight in the name of the same God.

That is, quite simply, not true.

 

[Bharat Jhunjhunwala]

Really?

Yes. Jews say they are the chosen people. Christians say jesus is the only way. Muslims say mohammad is the final prophet. So we fight.

 

[Bharat Jhunjhunwala]

That is, quite simply, not true.

Why. IT IS TRUE. The conflicts are based on this presumption

 

[freelight]

I am Catholic and have grown up my whole life attending Mass. When I was young, I was very bored, and found the set prayers of the priest and the congregation to be monotonous. I also didn't know why we were doing what we were doing. Now, as I understand a lot more, I have grown to appreciate it. However, I understand from conversations with others, that for some, praying to God in nature is enough for them. My question is: should there be a set structure in worship at all (predetermined by someone else)?

Structure and ritual serve as an template perhaps in which spirit and meditation can be facilitated or directed, so therein is its usefullness when used appropriately to actually unite with Spirit. 'Church' as usual can get boring I suppose depending on what tradition you are raised, yet one may go on to use different rituals in their soul's journey to focus their worship.

I currently have no set rituals besides LIFE itself, hoping to allow love and wisdom to direct my path, as I abide in the omnipresence of Spirit, and lean towards a more gnostic and theosophic perspective of the divine. - our experience of 'God' is personal and subjective in its core essence. - all else can enhance or support our worship of Deity from microcosm to macrocosm to infinity.

Universally I offer J. Krishnamurti's perspective, that truth is a pathless land,...the grandeur of 'God' is ever present and unknowable (prior to thought, time, language, ritual and creeds).....its the grace that sustains every moment of existence, the most intimate reality knowable (to whatever degree we can know or re-cognize anything). - it is beyond space or time yet all-pervading, always already be-ing and be-coming whatever it wills to be. ("I AM"....& "I Will Be") - the name/identity of 'God' in all sentient life.

~*~*~

 

[Truthseeker]

Yes. Jews say they are the chosen people. Christians say jesus is the only way. Muslims say mohammad is the final prophet. So we fight.

Those are not the only religions in the world.

 

[LuisDantas]

Why. IT IS TRUE. The conflicts are based on this presumption

That... is not quite true even for particularly unenlightened versions of the Abrahamics, sir.

 

[freelight]

Why. IT IS TRUE. The conflicts are based on this presumption

If we agree that one universal omnipresent ultimate reality exists which we can call 'God',.......that alone is absolute, while all else are relative abstractions and descriptions thereof....concerning the 'names' and 'forms' of 'God'. If we are true monotheists/monists....we will recognize the unity of all truth/existence....while differences exist from point of view and perspective.

Concerning the NAME of 'God'.....that reality and IDENTITY is universally the same for all, regardless of 'name'. - a universalist stays true to universals, never disturbed over particulars or differentials which arise in the ONE. Respecting God's name is key....which unifies all into source-essence....which is true worship of Deity, the "I AM" cognizant within all sentient beings. - just a few tid-bits to nibble on


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[Bharat Jhunjhunwala]

Those are not the only religions in the world.

Of course. The hindu and Buddhists do not have this concept.

 

[Bharat Jhunjhunwala]

That... is not quite true even for particularly unenlightened versions of the Abrahamics, sir.

That is true. Please explain why not true.

 

[RabbiO]

I’m going to suggest that this thread be moved to a debate subforum. @Bharat Jhunjhunwala has raised allegations and accusations that can be better addressed in a subforum that allows for a bit more heat.

 

[Truthseeker]

I’m going to suggest that this thread be moved to a debate subforum. @Bharat Jhunjhunwala has raised allegations and accusations that can be better addressed in a subforum that allows for a bit more heat.

I agree. I was going to assert something further to what he said to me, but this is not the place for that.

 

[Bharat Jhunjhunwala]

I’m going to suggest that this thread be moved to a debate subforum. @Bharat Jhunjhunwala has raised allegations and accusations that can be better addressed in a subforum that allows for a bit more heat.

I apologize if what I have written appears as allegations and accusations. That was not my intent at all. Thanks

 

[LuisDantas]

That is true. Please explain why not true.

Mainly because people often develop religious wisdom on their own, even if at odds with the doctrines they have been taught.

 

[metis]

Yes. Jews say they are the chosen people. Christians say jesus is the only way. Muslims say mohammad is the final prophet. So we fight.

So, why should we "fight"?

 

[☆Dreamwind☆]

That is, quite simply, not true.

To be fair there are always some loud, proud, chest-thumpers who are holier-than-thou in every religion.

 

[Bharat Jhunjhunwala]

Mainly because people often develop religious wisdom on their own, even if at odds with the doctrines they have been taught.

Yes few do develop wisdom. But even the .Wise. among them always hang on to some diluted concept of exclusive relation with God. Eg. I do not know of a jew who would deny his divine right to the land of israel.

 

[Bharat Jhunjhunwala]

So, why should we "fight"?

Because they look down on others. That brings equal and opposite reaction .

 

[Bharat Jhunjhunwala]

To be fair there are always some loud, proud, chest-thumpers who are holier-than-thou in every religion.

But when the .Some. becomes 98 percent, then the story is different.

 

[LuisDantas]

Yes few do develop wisdom. But even the .Wise. among them always hang on to some diluted concept of exclusive relation with God. Eg. I do not know of a jew who would deny his divine right to the land of israel.

I think that you are both wildly overestimating the significance of god-beliefs and wildly underestimating the ability of most people to develop religious wisdom by their own means.