Dear ros,
Yeah, like the Jews never got anything wrong.
Jeremiah 8:8," New American Standard Bible
"How can you say, 'We are wise, And the law of the LORD is with us'? But behold, the lying pen of the scribes Has made it into a lie.
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Should Christians follow the Law?
- Thread starter NathanShepard8888
- Start date
Dear ros,
Yeah, like the Jews never got anything wrong.
Jeremiah 8:8," New American Standard Bible
"How can you say, 'We are wise, And the law of the LORD is with us'? But behold, the lying pen of the scribes Has made it into a lie.
rosends
Well-Known Member
Wow -- you are accusing Jeremiah of getting things wrong?
roger1440
I do stuff
"'How can you say, "We are wise, for we have the law of the LORD," when actually the lying pen of the scribes has handled it falsely? (Jeremiah 8:8)
Jeremiah is being sarcastic. Since the actions of the scribes are not in agreement with what the scribes are writing, they must be writing with a “lying pen”.
sandy whitelinger
Veteran Member
Because Jesus thinks it's better not to starve than breaking one commandment.
Because he is crucified with Christ. there explanations of this in Romans and backed by Galatians.
Because there was confusion about it.
Because Abraham's actions came before the Mosaic Law.
The Law is important because for God to be the righteous judge of men there needs to be law. There is no Biblical evidence that it's ok to violate the Law "whenever."
Brickjectivity,,,,Here are the answers you requested. First,,, David and the showbread: The show bread was placed in the Sanctuary. Every Sabbath it was replaced by the Priests. The Priests were permitted to eat this holy bread after it was replaced with fresh loaves. Jesus is teaching that human needs are more important than rituals. Jesus loves mercy. God defaults to being merciful over and over. In Matthew 12:7 we see that Jesus quotes the Book of Hosea when He says "I desire mercy and not sacrifice.." Hosea 6:6. Also Jesus is the Creator, which makes Him "Lord of the Sabbath". In other words, He can do and forgive as He pleases. His Grace is sufficient.
Your next question was: Why does Paul claim to die to the law? The penalty for breaking the Law of God (10 Commandments) is eternal death. Since we all have broken that law, we are all worthy of it's wages which are eternal death. So,, in essence Paul is teaching that we were married to that law and beholden to it and it's consequences, death! Just like a person is beholden to their spouse in a marriage until the spouse dies and frees you from that marriage, (until death do we part). Here comes Jesus who dies on a cross and frees us from the law of sin and death. That does not mean we are free to sin as we please,,, it just means we are free from the consequences of breaking God's Law. Jesus paid the penalty for us,, so we are no longer bound to the consequences of breaking God's law, which is Eternal Death. All who place their hope and faith in Jesus are now married to Him and not the law of sin and death! All who clothe themselves with Christ and His Righteousness have DIED TO THE LAW!
The Jews have always had a problem thinking that they were better than everybody else. The Jews loved to think that they alone would be the beneficiaries of God's Salvation. So,, many of the Jewish converts were jealous of the Gentile converts. The Jews loved their ceremonial laws. These laws were made null & void by the Crucifixion of Jesus. Some of the Jewish converts were teaching that the Gentile converts needed to be circumcised and until they were they were deemed unclean. The vision given to Peter by God showed that the same Holy Spirit that was given to the Jews was also given to the Gentiles, warning Peter that he was not to regard one as inferior to the other, for the Blood of Christ can cleanse from all uncleanness! So the Council came up with some changes for the Gentile converts. They would not need to be circumcised. The Gentiles also had many heathen practices. The Jewish converts were afraid that many of these practices would bring Christianity into disrepute. The Gentiles were accustomed to eating the flesh of animals that were strangled, while the Jews were divinely instructed that when beasts were killed for food particular care was taken that the blood should flow from the body, otherwise the meat would not be deemed as wholesome. Many of the Gentile converts were still involved and living with others who made frequent sacrifices & offerings to idols. So, the council came up with some guidelines for the Gentile converts. "that you abstain from things offered to idols, from blood, from things strangled, and from sexual immorality. They were urged to keep the Commandments and lead holy lives. As they continued to meet on Sabbath (Acts 13:42,44) with their Jewish brothers and sisters, they would learn everything God wanted them to know.
I don't understand why you believe that it is okay to break God's laws. It's not. Breaking the law of God is what got us all in this mess and why Jesus came and suffered and died on a Cross. The day is coming soon when God's law will be made void and the book of Psalm warns us of that day. When they make a law enforcing the Mark of the Beast, it is then that God shall act and the plagues shall fall. "It is time for you to act , O Lord, for they have regarded Your law as void." Psalm 119:126
And what does the next verse tell us? "Therefore, I love Your commandments. More than gold, yes, than fine gold." Psalm 119:127
Your next question was: Why does Paul claim to die to the law? The penalty for breaking the Law of God (10 Commandments) is eternal death. Since we all have broken that law, we are all worthy of it's wages which are eternal death. So,, in essence Paul is teaching that we were married to that law and beholden to it and it's consequences, death! Just like a person is beholden to their spouse in a marriage until the spouse dies and frees you from that marriage, (until death do we part). Here comes Jesus who dies on a cross and frees us from the law of sin and death. That does not mean we are free to sin as we please,,, it just means we are free from the consequences of breaking God's Law. Jesus paid the penalty for us,, so we are no longer bound to the consequences of breaking God's law, which is Eternal Death. All who place their hope and faith in Jesus are now married to Him and not the law of sin and death! All who clothe themselves with Christ and His Righteousness have DIED TO THE LAW!
The Jews have always had a problem thinking that they were better than everybody else. The Jews loved to think that they alone would be the beneficiaries of God's Salvation. So,, many of the Jewish converts were jealous of the Gentile converts. The Jews loved their ceremonial laws. These laws were made null & void by the Crucifixion of Jesus. Some of the Jewish converts were teaching that the Gentile converts needed to be circumcised and until they were they were deemed unclean. The vision given to Peter by God showed that the same Holy Spirit that was given to the Jews was also given to the Gentiles, warning Peter that he was not to regard one as inferior to the other, for the Blood of Christ can cleanse from all uncleanness! So the Council came up with some changes for the Gentile converts. They would not need to be circumcised. The Gentiles also had many heathen practices. The Jewish converts were afraid that many of these practices would bring Christianity into disrepute. The Gentiles were accustomed to eating the flesh of animals that were strangled, while the Jews were divinely instructed that when beasts were killed for food particular care was taken that the blood should flow from the body, otherwise the meat would not be deemed as wholesome. Many of the Gentile converts were still involved and living with others who made frequent sacrifices & offerings to idols. So, the council came up with some guidelines for the Gentile converts. "that you abstain from things offered to idols, from blood, from things strangled, and from sexual immorality. They were urged to keep the Commandments and lead holy lives. As they continued to meet on Sabbath (Acts 13:42,44) with their Jewish brothers and sisters, they would learn everything God wanted them to know.
I don't understand why you believe that it is okay to break God's laws. It's not. Breaking the law of God is what got us all in this mess and why Jesus came and suffered and died on a Cross. The day is coming soon when God's law will be made void and the book of Psalm warns us of that day. When they make a law enforcing the Mark of the Beast, it is then that God shall act and the plagues shall fall. "It is time for you to act , O Lord, for they have regarded Your law as void." Psalm 119:126
And what does the next verse tell us? "Therefore, I love Your commandments. More than gold, yes, than fine gold." Psalm 119:127
sandy whitelinger
Veteran Member
This isn't quite right. Romans teaches through the analogy of the husband and wife that when a person accepts Christ they have symbolically died which frees them from the Law of Moses. Man still dies so the penalty still exists but that penalty did not come from the Mosaic Law. It goes back to the Garden of Eden. What changes is that the Christian falls under the law of faith in Christ.
That is definitely not true.
Good argument.
Sandy,, many people want to believe that Jesus freed us from keeping the law. Nothing could be further from the truth. We are to obey God and keep His Commandments, for they are not burdensome.
I will explain it another way. A man is convicted and sentenced to death. The Governor comes along and pardons the condemned man and sets him free. The freed man is now beholden to the Governor and keeping his laws. Just because the Governor freed the condemn man, is not a license to break the Governors laws. In fact,, because the condemned was freed, he is even more obliged to keep the laws of the Governor! What do you suppose the Governor will do to the condemned man that was freed yet turned back to a life of law breaking?
We keep the Law, not because it is the means of Salvation, but because keeping the law is the FRUIT OF SALVATION!!!!! If we love Jesus we will love to keep His Commandments!. It is the Love of Christ that compels us to do so. Not selfish motives.
The 10 Commandments and the Law of Moses is not exactly the same thing. Moses's law was the temporary, ceremonial law of the Old Testament. It regulated the priesthood, sacrifices, rituals, meat and drink offerings, ect., all of which foreshadowed the cross This law was added "til the seed should come," and that seed was Christ (Galatians 3;16,19) The ritual and ceremony of Moses' law pointed forward to Christ's sacrifice. When He died, that law came to an end, but the 10 Commandments (God's Law) "stand fast forever and ever" Psalm 111:8.
To show you a few differences between the law of Moses & God's Law:
Moses' law is called "the law of Moses" Luke 2:22----------------------------------God's law is called "the law of the Lord" Isaiah 5:24
Moses' law was written by Moses in a book. 2 Chronicles 35:12--------------------God's law was written by God on stone. Exodus 31:18
Moses' law was placed on the side of the ark. Dueteronomy 31:26-----------------God's law was placed inside the ark. Exodus 40:20
Moses' law judges no one. Colossians 2:14-16--------------------------------------God's law judges all people James 2:10-12
Moses' law is carnal. Hebrews 7:16-----------------------------------------------------God's law is spiritual. Romans 7:14
Moses' law made nothing perfect Hebrews 7:19------------------------------------------God's law is perfect Psalm 19:7
Hope this helps clear up any confusion.
I will explain it another way. A man is convicted and sentenced to death. The Governor comes along and pardons the condemned man and sets him free. The freed man is now beholden to the Governor and keeping his laws. Just because the Governor freed the condemn man, is not a license to break the Governors laws. In fact,, because the condemned was freed, he is even more obliged to keep the laws of the Governor! What do you suppose the Governor will do to the condemned man that was freed yet turned back to a life of law breaking?
We keep the Law, not because it is the means of Salvation, but because keeping the law is the FRUIT OF SALVATION!!!!! If we love Jesus we will love to keep His Commandments!. It is the Love of Christ that compels us to do so. Not selfish motives.
The 10 Commandments and the Law of Moses is not exactly the same thing. Moses's law was the temporary, ceremonial law of the Old Testament. It regulated the priesthood, sacrifices, rituals, meat and drink offerings, ect., all of which foreshadowed the cross This law was added "til the seed should come," and that seed was Christ (Galatians 3;16,19) The ritual and ceremony of Moses' law pointed forward to Christ's sacrifice. When He died, that law came to an end, but the 10 Commandments (God's Law) "stand fast forever and ever" Psalm 111:8.
To show you a few differences between the law of Moses & God's Law:
Moses' law is called "the law of Moses" Luke 2:22----------------------------------God's law is called "the law of the Lord" Isaiah 5:24
Moses' law was written by Moses in a book. 2 Chronicles 35:12--------------------God's law was written by God on stone. Exodus 31:18
Moses' law was placed on the side of the ark. Dueteronomy 31:26-----------------God's law was placed inside the ark. Exodus 40:20
Moses' law judges no one. Colossians 2:14-16--------------------------------------God's law judges all people James 2:10-12
Moses' law is carnal. Hebrews 7:16-----------------------------------------------------God's law is spiritual. Romans 7:14
Moses' law made nothing perfect Hebrews 7:19------------------------------------------God's law is perfect Psalm 19:7
Hope this helps clear up any confusion.
It seems like semantics. We may break the law, because we consider ourselves to be dead? We equate divorce with death because...Romans 7 says that we may?
I don't necessarily believe that. I just raised several objections based upon scripture verses. Its a scripture debate forum, and the OP claimed Christians should keep the Law. I think its fair for me to point out these scriptural questions.
I understand, perhaps I should have phrased it another way. And yes, it is fair that you to ask questions concerning the scriptures. I understand this is a debate forum Here's my question to you: How do I quote a person on a post? I see that you quote me,, but I am not a computer person and have very limited knowledge. I have some Bible knowledge,, but no computer knowledge. So if you could tell me the steps you take to make a post and quote somebody else's post, I would be grateful to you Brickjectivity. Thanks in advance..
Thanks for your reply. I don't think you have left room for me to discuss your comments. They are your opinions, and I value that. I am actually discussing specific verses in Romans and an argument in Galatians, so it would be repetitive to bring it up in reply.
Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
Many people does faith in god isnt nullified by traditions but strengthened by them. That verse doesnt apply to every person who follows god through traditon.
It involves adding something called BBCODE to your text. There are three ways. You can type text, then select it with your mouse, then click the plus symbol on the editing box. This lets you choose 'Add quote'. It will surround your text with the appropriate BBCODE for quotations.
The second way is to highlight text from another post then 'right-click' and a few options should appear over the mouse pointer. Click 'Reply' and this will add the text and appropriate BBCODE to your text at the bottom of the screen.
You may also just type the BBCODE, but it is hard to describe so bear with me.
The first code is a left bracket '[' followed by the word 'QUOTE' then and equals '=' then quotes-name-quotes and a right bracket ']'. That tells the computer that you have begun a quotation and who or what it is a quotation of. The name can be any text, because the computer does not read the name.
At the end of the text you put the closing BBCODE which is: '[' then the word 'QUOTE' then a forward slash '/' and a right bracket ']'.
I cannot type it for you, because then the computer will just eat the BBCODE.
NathanShepard8888
Member
There are different laws Paul refers to. One is the law of grace. Another the law of God. Another the law of Moses. Another the law of sin. Another law of sin and death. I missed a few, but you can tell why his words were hard to understand 2000 years ago according to Peter.
NathanShepard8888
Member
You click on the bottom right of the post you want to quote.
NathanShepard8888
Member
There are seven laws (instructions) mentioned by Paul.
1. The Law of God. Romans 3.31, 7.22-25, 8.7
2. The Law of Sin. Romans 7.23-25
3. The Law of Sin and death.Romans 8.2
4. The Law of the Spirit and Life. Romans 8.2
5. The Law of Faith. Romans 3.27
6. The Law of Righteousness. Romans 9.23
7. The Law of Christ. 1 Corinthians 9.21
That is why there is so much confusion when Paul mentions law. The Bible cannot contradict itself.
1. The Law of God. Romans 3.31, 7.22-25, 8.7
2. The Law of Sin. Romans 7.23-25
3. The Law of Sin and death.Romans 8.2
4. The Law of the Spirit and Life. Romans 8.2
5. The Law of Faith. Romans 3.27
6. The Law of Righteousness. Romans 9.23
7. The Law of Christ. 1 Corinthians 9.21
That is why there is so much confusion when Paul mentions law. The Bible cannot contradict itself.
Let baal defend himself if he is truly a god. If the Bible doesn't contradict itself, then there is no need to state that it doesn't. Besides, how would you go about proving that each and every statement does not contradict another? One by one?