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Shaykh Prof. Palazzi on Jews' right of Israel

Discussion in 'Qur'anist DIR' started by Union, Aug 29, 2016.

  1. Union

    Union Well-Known Member

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    WHAT THE QUR'AN REALLY SAYS

    by Shaykh Prof. Abdul Hadi Palazzi THE QUR'AN SAYS THAT ALLAH GAVE THE LAND OF ISRAEL TO THE JEWS
    AND WILL RESTORE THEM TO IT AT THE END OF DAYS



    THE QUR'AN SAYS:

    "To Moses We [Allah] gave nine clear signs. Ask the Israelites how he [Moses] first appeared amongst them. Pharoah said to him: 'Moses, I can see that you are bewitched.' 'You know full well,' he [Moses] replied, 'that none but the Lord of the heavens and the earth has revealed these visible signs. Pharoah, you are doomed.'"

    "Pharoah sought to scare them [the Israelites] out of the land [of Israel]: but We [Allah] drowned him [Pharoah] together with all who were with him. Then We [Allah] said to the Israelites: 'Dwell in this land [the Land of Israel]. When the promise of the hereafter [End of Days] comes to be fulfilled, We [Allah] shall assemble you [the Israelites] all together [in the Land of Israel]."

    "We [Allah] have revealed the Qur'an with the truth, and with the truth it has come down. We have sent you [Muhammed] forth only to proclaim good news and to give warning."

    [Qur'an, "Night Journey," chapter 17:100-104]

    SHAYKH PROF. PALAZZI COMMENTS:

    God wanted to give Avraham a double blessing, through Ishmael and through Isaac, and ordered that Ishmael's descendents should live in the desert of Arabia and Isaac's in Canaan.

    The Qur'an recognizes the Land of Israel as the heritage of the Jews and it explains that, before the Last Judgment, Jews will return to dwell there. This prophecy has already been fulfilled.

    ****************************************
    MUSLIMS MUST RECOGNIZE THE STATE OF ISRAEL AS A JEWISH STATE

    Is there any fundamental reason which prohibits Muslims from recognizing Israel as a friendly State?

    I realize that a negative answer to the above question is taken for granted by popular opinion. My approach, however, is not based on popular opinion or the current political situation, but on a theological analysis of authentic Islamic sources.

    Viewing the Jewish return to Israel as a Western invasion and Zionists as recent colonizers is new. It has no basis in authentic Islamic faith. According to the Qur'an, no person, people or religious community can claim a permanent right of possession over any territory. The Earth belongs exclusively to God, and He is free to entrust sovereignty over land to whomever He likes for whatever time period that He chooses.

    "Say: 'O God, King of the kingdom (1), Thou givest the kingdom to whom Thou pleasest, and Thou strippest off the kingdom from whom Thou pleasest; Thou endowest with honour whom Thou pleasest, and Thou bringest low whom Thou pleasest: all the best is in Thy hand. Verily, Thou hast power over all things.'"(2) [Qur'an 3:26]

    From the above Qur'anic verse we deduce a basic principle of the Monotheistic philosophy of history: God chooses as He likes in the relationship between peoples and countries. Sometimes He gives a land to a people, and sometimes He takes His possession back and gives it to another people.

    In general, we can say that He gives as a reward for faithfulness and takes back as a punishment for wickedness, but this rule does not permit us to say that God's ways are always plain and clear to our eyes, since His secrets are inaccessible to the human intellect.

    Using Islam as a basis for preventing Arabs from recognizing any sovereign right of Jews over the Land of Israel is new. Such beliefs are not found in classical Islamic sources.

    Concluding that anti-Zionism is the logical outgrowth of Islamic faith is wrong. This conclusion represents the false transformation of Islam from a religion into a secularized ideology.

    Such a false transformation of Islam was in fact made by the late Mufti of Jerusalem, Haj Amin el-Husseini. He is the one person most responsible, both morally and materially, for the repeated Arab defeats in their conflict with the Jews in Israel.

    Husseni not only incited Arabs against Jews. He also encouraged the torture and murder of all Arabs who correctly understood that Arab cooperation with Jews was a precious opportunity for the development of the Land of Israel. Husseini ended his woeful life by putting his perverted religious teachings at the service of the evil and pagan Nazis.

    After Husseini came Jamal al-Din 'Abd al-Nasser. Nasser based his policy on Pan-Arabism, hatred and contempt for Jews, and an alliance with the atheistic Soviet Union. Nasser's terrible choices were critical factors in maintaining Arab backwardness. Fortunately, most of Nasser's mistakes were afterward corrected by the martyr Anwar Sadat. (3)

    After the defeat of Nasserianism, Islamic fundamentalist movements made anti-Zionism the primary feature of their propaganda. They presented the negation of any Jewish rights to the Land of Israel as rooted in authentic Islam and derived from authentic Islamic religious principles.

    ***********************************
    THE LAND OF ISRAEL IN QUR'ANIC EXEGESIS

    The fundamentalist Muslim program to use Islam as an instrument for political warfare against Jews finds a major obstacle in the Qur'an itself. Both the Bible and the Qur'an state quite clearly that the right of the Israelites to the Land of Israel does not depend on conquest and colonization. This right flows from the will of almighty God Himself.

    Both the Jewish and Islamic Scriptures teach that God, through His chosen servant Moses, decided to free the offspring of Jacob from slavery in Egypt and to constitute them as heirs of the Promised Land. Whoever claims that Jewish sovereignty over the Land of Israel is something new and rooted in human politics denies divine revelation and divine prophecy as explicitly expressed in our Holy Books (the Bible and Koran).

    The Qur'an relates the words by which Moses ordered the Israelites to conquer the Land:

    "And [remember] when Moses said to his people: 'O my people, call in remembrance the favour of God unto you, when he produced prophets among you, made you kings, and gave to you what He had not given to any other among the peoples. O my people, enter the Holy Land which God has assigned unto you, and turn not back ignominiously, for then will ye be overthrown, to your own ruin.'" [Qur'an 5:20-21]

    Moreover - and those who try to use Islam as a weapon against Israel always conveniently ignore this point - the Holy Qur'an explicitly refers to the return of the Jews to the Land of Israel before the Last Judgment - where it says: "And thereafter We [Allah] said to the Children of Israel: 'Dwell securely in the Promised Land. And when the last warning will come to pass, we will gather you together in a mingled crowd.'" [Qur'an 17:104]

    Therefore, from an Islamic point of view, there is NO fundamental reason which prohibits Muslims from recognizing Israel as a friendly State.

    *********************************************
    ISLAM AND NORMALIZATION OF RELATIONSHIPS BETWEEN ISLAMIC STATES AND THE JEWISH STATE

    PLO documents can in no way be regarded as Islamic. The PLO leaders are a gang of criminals and thieves, and Arabs will be the main victims of any supposed "Palestinian State" under their leadership.

    I do not believe that Islam is the factor preventing normalization between Arabs and the State of Israel. The real problem is that members of the ruling classes in Arab countries believe their authority and power would be threatned by democracy, modernization, and education in the Arab world. They use a distorted interpretation of Islam as a political tool, and unfortunately the majority of uneducated Arabs believe their poisonous propaganda.

    I believe that we must return to the time when Islam was in the vanguard of scientific progress and interfaith dialogue. Instead of false "leaders" such as Qadhafi, Saddam Hussein, Arafat [el-Husseini] or Yasin, we Muslims again need true leaders such as al-Ghazali, Ibn Rushd and Ibn Khaldum.

    King Faysal of Iraq said: "The Arabs, and particularly the educated ones among them, must look at the Zionist movement with the deepest sympathy."

    Tragically, true leaders such as Faysal were silenced, and fanatics such as Haj Amin al-Husseini prevailed.

    The evil consequences of the victory of fanaticism are clear for all to see: Jews expelled from Arab countries where the lived in peace for over one thousand years, "Palestinian" refugees, terrorism, etc. To avoid future mistakes, we must learn from our past ones.

    Unfortunately, there are Arabs who believe that they must fight against Israel until they completely destroy it (a tragedy which I do not believe the God of Israel will ever permit to happen - Never again!).

    Unfortunately, there are also naive and foolish Israelis who believe, incredibly to me, that they will achieve "peace" with their Arab neighbours by giving the murderer "Arafat" [el-Husseini] a State, an army, etc. This is insane. You Jews are supposedly famous for your intelligence. How can some of your "leaders" be so stupid?

    From the perspective of the natural world, I am not optimistic about what the future holds. However, from the supernatural perspective of faith, we who believe in God must face the future with a positive attitude.

    We must have faith that we will see the day when real peace and prosperity - which can only be based on true faith in God and His Word (the Bible and Rabbinic Tradition for you; the Bible, Qur'an and Authentic Islamic Tradition for us) - will spread throughout the world. Meanwhile, we must work together to prepare for a better future.

    ********************************************
    MUSLIMS MUST RECOGNIZE JEWISH SOVEREIGNTY OVER JERUSALEM

    From an Islamic point of view, is there any fundamental reason which prohibits Muslims from recognizing Jerusalem both as an Islamic Holy Place and as the capital of the State of Israel?

    I realize that a negative answer to the above question is taken for granted by popular opinion. My approach, however, is not based on popular opinion or the current political situation, but on a theological analysis of authentic Islamic sources.

    Cont...
     
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  2. Union

    Union Well-Known Member

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    JERUSALEM IN THE QUR'AN

    The most common argument against Muslim acknowledgment of Israeli sovereignty over Jerusalem is that, since al-Quds [Jerusalem] (4) is a Holy Place for Muslims, Muslims cannot accept that it is ruled by non-Muslims, because such acceptance amounts to a betrayal of Islam.

    Before expressing our point of view on this question, we must reflect upon the reason for which Jerusalem and Masjid al-Aqsa [the Al Aksa mosque] hold such a sacred position in Islamic faith.

    As is well known, the inclusion of Jerusalem among Islamic holy places derives from al-Mi'raj, the Ascension of the Prophet Muhammed to heaven. The Ascension began at the Rock, usually identified by Muslim scholars as the Foundation Stone of the Jewish Temple in Jerusalem referred to in Jewish sources.

    Recalling this link requires us to admit that there is no connection between al-Miraj [the Ascension] and Muslim sovereign rights over Jerusalem since, in the time that al-Miraj took place, the City was not under Islamic, but under Byzantine administration. Moreover, the Qur'an expressly recognizes that Jerusalem plays for Jews the same role that Mecca does for Muslims.

    We read:

    "...They would not follow thy direction of prayer (qiblah), nor art thou to follow their direction of prayer; nor indeed will they follow each other's direction of prayer..." (5)

    All Qur'anic commentators explain that "thy qiblah" [direction of prayer for Muslims] is clearly the Ka'bah of Mecca, while "their qiblah" [direction of prayer for Jews] refers to the Temple Mount in Jerusalem.

    To quote only one of the most important Muslim commentators, we read in Qadn Baydawn's Commentary:

    "Verily, in their prayers Jews orientate themselves toward the Rock (sakhrah), while Christians orientate themselves eastwards..." (6)

    In complete opposition to what "Islamic" fundamentalists continuously claim, the Book of Islam [the Qur'an] - as we have just now seen - recognizes Jerusalem as the Jewish direction of prayer.

    Some Muslim commentators also quote the Book of Daniel (7) as a proof for this.

    After reviewing the relevant Qur'anic passages concerning this matter, I conclude that, as no one denies Muslims complete sovereignty over Mecca, from an Islamic point of view - despite opposing, groundless claims - there is no reason for Muslims to deny the State of Israel - which is a JEWISH state - complete sovereignty over Jerusalem.

    ************************************
    ISLAMIC HOLY PLACES

    Anti-Jewish sentiments expressed by Islamic leaders throughout the Middle East are, in fact, not religious in nature, but, rather, political. The best proof of this is in the fact that Islamic anti-Judaism is quite recent.

    Omar ended the Roman ban that prevented Jews to enter Jerusalem, the Ummayad caliphs in Cordoba built a synagogue for Maimonides, and Salahu-d-Din, after defeating the Crusaders, wrote to the Jewish leaders, "Your exile is over. Whoever wants to come back is welcome."

    The late King Faysal of Iraq openly expressed his sympathy for the Zionist movement, while King Abdullah of Jordan was compelled to wage war against Israel by the other Arab leaders.

    Recently, the Resident Arab ["Palestinian"] Wakf has made pronouncements, such as that the Western Wall (Kotel) is not a Jewish shrine, but, rather, the wall to which the Prophet's [steed] was tethered, or, at best, the wall surrounding the Muslim Mosque. The Wakf has also stated that all of Hebron should be turned over to the Resident Arab ["Palestinian"] Authority, and that Jews would be forbidden to pray in the Cave of the Patriarchs.

    These kinds of declarations by the PLO gangsters are ridiculous and absurd.

    The Kotel was effectively, according to the Islamic tradition, the place where al-Buraq [the Prophet's steed] was tethered, but it was already an existing part of the Herodian structure. Muslims have never prayed close to it, and it has never had a special relevance in Islam. On the contrary, everyone knows how important it is for Jewish worshippers.

    Apart from Mecca, no Islamic holy place is off-limits for non-Muslims. Historical sources say that the Prophet Muhammad entertained a delegation of Christians from Najran in the Mosque of Medina, and permitted them to celebrate a mass inside the Mosque, notwithstanding the fact that Christian rites can include words that are against Islam [such as stating that Jesus is God].

    There is nothing in Jewish worship that can be offensive for Muslims, and nothing in Islamic Law prevents Jews to pray on Haram al-Sharif/Har Habayyit (the Temple Mount), in the Cave of Machpela or in any other place that is regarded as holy by Muslims.

    Every time I meet those who say otherwise, I ask them to identify a single authoritative Islamic source as legal proof of their claim. None of them has ever answered such a request of mine.

    ********************************************
    NOTES:

    1. The original Arabic word we translated as "kingdom" is mulk, from a Semitic root m-l-k, that is common to both Arabic and Hebrew. According to Islamic theological terminology, the three synonyms for "kingdom" are mulk, malakut and jabarut. They refer respectively to the physical, psychic and spiritual levels of existence. Of course, G-d can be called King of all of them; if here only mulk is quoted, it depends on the fact that this verse directly concerns the earthly domain. To denote a kingdom in the secular and political sense, Arabic commonly uses another derived form, that is mamlakah.

    2. Koran 3:26. For typographical reasons, it is not possible to reproduce here the original Arabic text of the Koran, which must nevertheless be understood as quoted. As well here as in other Koranic quotations, the English translation of the meaning of Koranic words from Arabic is my own, but based on the most authoritative English commentaries, such as M. Marmaduke Pickthall's "The Meaning of The Glorious Koran" (Beirut 1973), 'A. Yusuf 'Ali, "The Holy Koran - Text, Translation and Commentary" (Maryland 1983) and A. 'A. Maududi "The Holy Koran - Text, Translation and Brief Notes" (Lahore 1986).

    3. In using the term "martyr" I do not simply refer to one who lost his life for a good cause. I give a precise translation of the Arabic word "shahid," which identifies a "martyr" in the strictly religious sense; that is to say, someone who spent his life serving the cause of G-d. Since making peace with former enemies is an explicit Koranic order (see Koran 8:61), and since, according to Islam, Peace is G-d Himself, any believer who is killed because of his search for Peace must be understood as a religious martyr. The same considerations clearly apply to Yitzhak Rabin. 4. Arabic name of Jerusalem, from the root q-d-s, meaning "holiness". It is an abridged form of Bayt al-maqdis, "the sanctified House" or "the House of the Sanctuary", an exact equivalent of the Hebrew Beth ha-mikdash. The name originally referred only to the Temple Mount, and was afterward extended to the City as a whole. This extension of meaning became common among Arabs from the tenth century C.E. onwards. Earlier Islamic sources use the name Iliyia, an adaptation to Arabic pronounciation of the Roman name Aelia.

    5. Koran 2:145.

    6. M. Shaykh Zadeh Hashiyaah 'ali Tafsir al-Qadn al-Baydawn (Istanbul 1979), Vol. 1, p. 456.

    7. Daniel 6:10

    ***********************************
    Prof. Abdul Hadi Palazzi has been a lecturer in the Department of the History of Religion at the University of Velletri (Rome, Italy).

    In 1987, after completing his secular and religious education in Rome and Cairo, he was asked to serve as an Imam (spiritual leader) for the Italian Islamic Community. In addition to numerous Masters Degrees, Prof. Palazzi hold a Ph.D in Islamic Sciences by decree of the Grand Mufti of the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia.

    In 1989 he was appointed a member of the Board of Directors of the Italian Muslim Association (AMI) and afterward elected its Secretary General.

    In 1991 he was asked to act as Director of the Cultural Institute of the Italian Islamic Community (ICCII), with a program based on the development of Islamic education in Italy, refutation of fundamentalism and fanaticism, and deep involvement in inter-religious dialogue, especially with Jews and Christians.

    In 1997, Prof. Palazzi's essay entitled "The Jewish-Moslem Dialogue and the Question of Jerusalem" was published by the Institute of the World Jewish Congress.

    In 1997, Prof. Palazzi joined the International Council of the Root & Branch Association.

    In 1998, Prof. Palazzi and Dr. Asher Eder (Jerusalem, Israel) co-founded the Islam-Israel Fellowship, which promotes a positive Muslim attitude towards Jews and Israel based on what Prof. Palazzi believes are the authentic teachings of Muhammed as expressed in the Koran and Hadith (Muslim Oral Tradition). Prof. Palazzi serves as Muslim Co-Chairman of the Fellowship. Dr. Eder serves as the Jewish Co-Chairman.
     
  3. Godobeyer

    Godobeyer the word "Islam" means "submission" to God
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    Not again :(
     
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  4. Union

    Union Well-Known Member

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    The first one was my own research from the Qur'an . Now this one is from a Sunni Scholar which I was not aware of that time . Hence felt oblige to open another one . I think there is another Sunni Scholar from Jordan elaborated and echoed the same sentiment . Wait till I will grab it first then I will open another thread to your annoyance ;)
     
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  5. Godobeyer

    Godobeyer the word "Islam" means "submission" to God
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    Look brother
    1or 2 scholars don't represent commun opinion of most of Muslims.
    Allah talk about time of Moses( pbuh) and others prophets.
    1-the most of Jews in time of Moses(pbuh ) were following Allah.
    2- after they corrupted/edited the Torah and rejected Allah messangers,so that promise is no more valid.

    Allah made covenant that they follow Him( do not edit His Message) and preach His message to the world.
    So they broke that.
     
  6. Union

    Union Well-Known Member

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    Jews were giving hard time before even they entered and inhabited in Israel . Almighty GOD banned them for forty years . That's all . Almighty GOD never cancelled HIS promise for them for good . That is the reason the prophecy of Qur'an came true that Almighty GOD would allow them to gather again in Israel which no Muslim can stop . We better make peace treaty with them and not fight with them .
     
  7. Union

    Union Well-Known Member

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    Sorry , it is not about agreeing with community but agreeing with GOD's command , even if it is 1:1Billion
     
  8. Godobeyer

    Godobeyer the word "Islam" means "submission" to God
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    Allah farvorited them among the other, is they remain farvorited people or the Muslims are now the farvorited people ?

    They better make peace with us too.
    brb.
     
  9. Union

    Union Well-Known Member

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    It is not because they are still favorite to HIM . Almighty GOD has HIS own plan .. to gather them in one place ... then execute HIS plan . May be bad for Zionist for all mischief they have doing .

    Who is dying like insects ? Jews or Muslims ? Let brain takeover heart brother .
     
  10. Godobeyer

    Godobeyer the word "Islam" means "submission" to God
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    If they are remain farvorite to Him ,why Allah did not sent last prophet a Jew ?
    Why Allah asked Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) to don't follow their religion ?

    https://quran.com/2/120


    People get dying defending for their land .
    I do put whole the blame on Israeli regime .
    because racist and oppression and occupation evidencely lead to resistance and voilence.
     
    #10 Godobeyer, Aug 29, 2016
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2016
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  11. Union

    Union Well-Known Member

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    Please read my previous post again .


    We need to compromise with them , there is no other way . To die is not the only way to defend someone's land . There are so many political and diplomatic ways to achieve it .
     
  12. Godobeyer

    Godobeyer the word "Islam" means "submission" to God
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    1-Jews are not farvorite people any more .because they don't deliver Allah message to the world,on contrary they (their elders) edited it.

    Allah plan is for defend our rights and His mosque.



    To die for defend for your land is duty in Islam.
    If there Jewish leader want peace , instead of oppression and racist,that would be compromise solution.
     
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  13. Union

    Union Well-Known Member

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    Let it be..
    [​IMG]
     
  14. Godobeyer

    Godobeyer the word "Islam" means "submission" to God
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    Yes let it be .

    If the people had mentality of surrender no one is free now , all people are occupated or slaves.
     
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  15. FearGod

    FearGod Freedom Of Mind

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    Tell that to Iran and Netanyahu.
     
  16. sun rise

    sun rise "This is the Hour of God"
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    One of the problems I, as a non Muslim have with 17:104 is the vast difference in translation depending on the source as shown below. If one uses the Sher Ali translation, then it's close to Professor Palazzi's translation. And in that case, we are living in the "Latter Days". But how is someone who does not know Arabic let alone Quranic Arabic to understand something where the tense is different, future vs past and all the other differences exist. I assume this problem also applies to Muslims who can't read Quranic Arabic as well?

    Khalifa And we said to the Children of Israel afterwards, "Go live in this land. When the final prophecy comes to pass, we will summon you all in one group."

    Yusuf Ali And We said thereafter to the Children of Israel, "Dwell securely in the land (of promise)": but when the second of the warnings came to pass, We gathered you together in a mingled crowd.

    Pickthal And We said unto the Children of Israel after him: Dwell in the land; but when the promise of the Hereafter cometh to pass We shall bring you as a crowd gathered out of various nations.

    Shakir And We said to the Israelites after him: Dwell in the land: and when the promise of the next life shall come to pass, we will bring you both together in judgment.

    Sher Ali And after him WE said to the Children of Israel, Dwell ye in the promised land; and when the time of the promise of the Latter Days comes, WE shall bring you together out of various peoples.'

    "Progressive Muslims" And We said after him to the Children of Israel: "Dwell in the land, then, when the time of the second promise comes, We will bring you all together as a mixed crowd."
     
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  17. FearGod

    FearGod Freedom Of Mind

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    The right translation is close to this one ((After that We said to the Children of Israel, "Dwell now securely in the earth but remember that when the last promise comes to pass, We shall bring you as a crowd gathered out of various nations."))
     
  18. faroukfarouk

    faroukfarouk Active Member

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    Peace to all
    If one reads the Noble Quraan in its proper contex you will determine the Quraan differentiates between
    Children of Israel (Bani Israel) and a Jew (Yahudi).
    Never will you find a verse that states that the Jews will gather to form the State of Israel.
    Never will you find a verse that states that they will be allowed to steal the land.
    Never will you find a verse that states that they will commit murder to achieve their objective.
    Remember not all Jews are from Children of Israel(Jacob).
    All reverts into Judaism become Jews hence a revert cannot be from the lineage of Jacob.
    There is a verse in Noble Quraan chapter 21 verse 95/96 which is very clear to me that states
    that the Children of Israel(Jacob) will only be gathered once Gog and Magog are let loose on Earth.
    My opinion is that the present Jews in Israel is from the lineage of Gog and Magog.
    Keep in mind that the majority of Jews present in Israel today are reverts and they came from
    the North of where the barrier was built by Dhul-qarnain.
    That discussion is in progress in the ff link.
    Jews deserve Israel - Qur'an confirms

    Peace to all.
     
  19. Union

    Union Well-Known Member

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    Hi Sunrise . Your concern is right . To know Qur'an properly you have to have a strong sense of Arabic language . Please see below concerning the right meaning of 17:104 :

    Almighty GOD has used past tense in Qur'an to confirm future events to denote its certainty . You will find so many events for the day of Judgment and/or for the end of the time are being expressed in past tense though these are yet to take place in future . Few examples for your perusal :


    إِذَا* الشَّمْسُ كُوِّرَتْ**81:1

    When (*Future Tense) the sun was Wrapped around ( **Past Tense) (on Judgment Day).

    وَيَوْمَ يُنفَخُ* فِي الصُّورِ فَفَزِعَ** مَن فِي السَّمَاوَاتِ وَمَن فِي الْأَرْضِ إِلَّا مَن شَاءَ اللَّهُ ۚ وَكُلٌّ أَتَوْهُ دَاخِرِينَ27:87

    And the Day on which the Trumpet will be blown(*Future Tense) and all who are in the heavens and all who are on the earth, will be terrified(** Past Tense) except him whom Allah will (exempt). And all shall come to Him humbled. (on Judgment Day)

    6:27 وَلَوْ تَرَىٰ* إِذْ وُقِفُوا** عَلَى النَّارِ فَقَالُوا*** يَا لَيْتَنَا نُرَدُّ وَلَا نُكَذِّبَ بِآيَاتِ رَبِّنَا وَنَكُونَ مِنَ الْمُؤْمِنِينَ

    If thou couldst see(* Future Tense) when they are stand (** Past Tense) the Fire and say ( *** Past Tense) : Oh, would that we might return! Then would we not deny the revelations of our Lord but we would be of the believers! (in Hell)

    In light of the above post , you may now look into verse 17:7 and 17:104 . These two verses are interlinked with the context and background to support for one another .

    إِنْ أَحْسَنتُمْ أَحْسَنتُمْ لِأَنفُسِكُمْ ۖ وَإِنْ أَسَأْتُمْ فَلَهَا ۚ فَإِذَا جَاءَ* وَعْدُ الْآخِرَةِ لِيَسُوءُوا** وُجُوهَكُمْ وَلِيَدْخُلُوا*** الْمَسْجِدَ كَمَا دَخَلُوهُ أَوَّلَ مَرَّةٍ وَلِيُتَبِّرُوا# مَا عَلَوْا تَتْبِيرًا17:07

    (Saying): If ye do good, ye do good for your own souls, and if ye do evil, it is for them (in like manner). So, when the time for the second (of the judgments) came ( * Past Tense) (We roused against you others of Our slaves) to ravage you (** Future Tense), and to enter the Temple (*** Future Tense) even as they entered it the first time, and to lay waste(#Future Tense) all that they conquered with an utter wasting.


    وَقُلْنَا مِن بَعْدِهِ لِبَنِي إِسْرَائِيلَ اسْكُنُوا الْأَرْضَ فَإِذَا* جَاءَ وَعْدُ** الْآخِرَةِ جِئْنَا*** بِكُمْ لَفِيفًا17:104

    And We said thereafter to the Children of Israel "Dwell securely in the land (of promise)": but when(* Future Tense) the second of the warnings came to pass(** Past Tense) We gathered(*** Past tense) you together in a mingled crowd

    The red part of the verse is all about future prediction as it is talking about some future moment closest to Akhirat . See below some renowned translators who translated this verse in future tense :

    Moshkin Khan : And We said to the Children of Israel after him: "Dwell in the land, then, when the final and the last promise comes near [i.e. the Day of Resurrection or the descent of Christ ['Îsa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary) عليهما السلام on the earth], We shall bring you altogether as mixed crowd (gathered out of various nations). (Tafsir Al-Qurtubi,).
    Asad : And after that We said unto the children of Israel: "Dwell now securely on earth - but [remember that] when the promise of the Last Day shall come to pass, We will bring you forth as [parts of] a motley crowd!"
    Malik : Thereafter We said to the Children of Israel: "Settle down in the land and when the promise of the hereafter comes to be fulfilled, We shall assemble you all together."
    Pickthall : And We said unto the Children of Israel after him: Dwell in the land; but when the promise of the Hereafter cometh to pass we shall bring you as a crowd gathered out of various nations.

    However , the settlement of Jews community in Israel and their gaining fierce power above their enemies in current days confirm beyond any argument that 17:104 was really talking about the future events and now it happened already . To deny this simple fact is nothing but denying the miracle of Qur'an .


     
  20. Union

    Union Well-Known Member

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    Keeping aside the issue of Gog and Magog , take the task to differentiate between Jews and Children of Israel and give it to Children of Israel . They have been living in Israel for 3000 years till Christians and Muslims invaded Israel and subdued them .
     
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