Sexual appetite

[Axe Elf]

The spirit is synonymous with the soul; the human spirit is the soul.

That's not true, but like I said, a full study on the triune image of God in which we were created (with a body (Son), mind/soul (Father), and Spirit) is beyond the scope of this thread, and it's irrelevant to this matter anyway.

There is no contradiction because we can know some things that the soul will not experience after death....

• We know that the heaven is a spiritual world so there will be no physical bodies in heaven....
• We know that physical bodies do not survive death, so we cannot have a physical body after death....
• We know that orgasms occur in the genitals but with no physical body there can be no genitals...
• Ask Adrian, he is a doctor...
• By the process of deductive reasoning, if we have no physical body in heaven that means there can be no orgasms in heaven.

Orgasms, and other physical sensations are triggered by neurons in the physical body, but they are experienced by the mind, or soul. Any experience that a mind (soul) is capable of having should be capable of being had either with or without a body. We hear because neurons in our ears are stimulated. We see because neurons in our eyes are stimulated. We think and feel emotions because neurons in our brains are stimulated. If you posit that we cannot see, hear, think or experience emotions once our mind/soul leaves our physical body, then what exactly is left of this "afterlife" of which you speak?

Sorry if this is disappointing... I do not make the Rules, I just report them....

Anyone is welcome to give their opinion. I don't find yours to be reasonable.

You can hope, but your hopes will be dashed soon after arrival.

We shall see...

All I know is that a heaven without orgasms is a lesser heaven than a heaven with eternal orgasmic bliss.

 

[Trailblazer]

I see nothing in what you posted to Adrian where Jesus said anything about the experience of orgasms in the afterlife.

Now, if by "reading between the lines," you mean, "attributing my own thoughts to Jesus," then yes, we can make Jesus say anything we want Him to say.

You do not even have to read in between these lines.... If the lust of the flesh is of "the world" then it is not of heaven, since heaven is not of the world.

1 John 2:16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.

 

[Axe Elf]

You do not even have to read in between these lines.... If the lust of the flesh is of "the world" then it is not of heaven, since heaven is not of the world.

1 John 2:16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.

First of all, I don't think Jesus said anything in the book of 1 John.

Secondly, in this context, the author is using the word "lust" to mean what is essentially covetousness, craving the things of the world, being selfish and greedy.

It is our selfish human nature that is of the world, not love expressed properly through sex.

I don't mind if you interpret it differently, though. Maybe my heaven and your heaven will be different; yours being the most pleasurable thing you can imagine, and mine being the most pleasurable thing I can imagine--e.g., eternal orgasmic bliss.

 

[Trailblazer]

First of all, I don't think Jesus said anything in the book of 1 John.

Well maybe not, but Jesus said similar things in other verses.

Secondly, in this context, the author is using the word "lust" to mean what is essentially covetousness, craving the things of the world, being selfish and greedy.

Sex is one of those things of the world that people crave and it is for self, no matter how much people try to deny it. Even if a partner is involved, it also involves self.

It is our selfish human nature that is of the world, not love expressed properly through sex.

Love expressed properly through sex is not necessarily selfish, but it is not selfless either, unless one is getting nothing at all for him or herself.

Once a while back, a Baha'i posted the following on a forum, and he has given me permission to pass it along. I cannot say it as well as he said it and I do not want to paraphrase him. It expresses my beliefs and sentiments exactly:

Ah, but that is conflating love and sex (which, yeah, people do all the time). Sex is not love and love is not sex, nor is there any necessary relationship between the two. In human beings it is true that sex typically plays a bonding role in a certain type of loving relationship, but it's not necessary to it (however much people think it is). We love lots of people who we would (unless something is wrong with us) never consider having sex with: children, parents, close friends, etc. One might even add household pets to the list.

Sex is primarily about reproduction. That's why it even exists in the first place. It's a biological mechanism that increases diversity in the gene pool, for one thing. Its role in relationships in some species is a secondary role, not the primary one, which evolved much later. Sex is not something only cute furry creatures do for bonding. Reptiles and amphibians and insects and even plants have sex lives. It evolved as a means of reproduction, and only later acquired secondary roles. Those who want to divorce it completely from its primary role (and they do exist; I've been in discussions where people have argued quite strenuously that sex isn't about reproduction at all!) are in a very real sense attempting to force it to conform to their own selfish desires . . . and that, ultimately, is what is against our spiritual nature.

Our spiritual nature cannot be developed except by "dying to self" and "living in God." God has given us a dual nature: one material and one spiritual. Sex is part of the material nature, however much it may be able to play a role in a truly loving relationship. It is not what we are, even though people insist that it is. (Extreme but real example: I read an article in the long ago when the AIDS epidemic had become the big news of the day in which the author, a promiscuous homosexual who had contracted the disease, wrote about how it had affected his life. He stated near the end that he had to take a lot of precautions now to avoid spreading the illness, but that he couldn't give up his promiscuous lifestyle because that was "who he was.") God is calling us to struggle against our lower nature and to become who we truly are: not material beings, not sexual beings, but spiritual beings who are in control of the physical side of our nature and who can thus find true happiness living in conformity with His will. Although not scriptural, there is a possible explanation of why He has made it so hard that I ran across long ago in a Baha'i children's book: Because if it were too easy, it wouldn't be worth anything. Or put another way, because only by being challenged can we really prove our love for God.​

I don't mind if you interpret it differently, though. Maybe my heaven and your heaven will be different; yours being the most pleasurable thing you can imagine, and mine being the most pleasurable thing I can imagine--e.g., eternal orgasmic bliss.

I do not even think in terms of pleasure or being happy in this world, so why would I think of it in heaven? I just want what God wants for me because I know that has to be the best thing for me. I have no idea what that will be in heaven and I try not to think about it too much. I just try to follow the teachings and laws of my religion and hope for the best.

That said, we cannot order up what we will "have" in heaven like ordering a burger at a restaurant, It will be whatever it will be and it will be, and what it will be is according to our faith and deeds.

 

[Axe Elf]

Well maybe not, but Jesus said similar things in other verses.

Sex is one of those things of the world that people crave and it is for self, no matter how much people try to deny it. Even if a partner is involved, it also involves self.

Love expressed properly through sex is not necessarily selfish, but it is not selfless either, unless one is getting nothing at all for him or herself.

Once a while back, a Baha'i posted the following on a forum, and he has given me permission to pass it along. I cannot say it as well as he said it and I do not want to paraphrase him. It expresses my beliefs and sentiments exactly:

Ah, but that is conflating love and sex (which, yeah, people do all the time). Sex is not love and love is not sex, nor is there any necessary relationship between the two. In human beings it is true that sex typically plays a bonding role in a certain type of loving relationship, but it's not necessary to it (however much people think it is). We love lots of people who we would (unless something is wrong with us) never consider having sex with: children, parents, close friends, etc. One might even add household pets to the list.

Sex is primarily about reproduction. That's why it even exists in the first place. It's a biological mechanism that increases diversity in the gene pool, for one thing. Its role in relationships in some species is a secondary role, not the primary one, which evolved much later. Sex is not something only cute furry creatures do for bonding. Reptiles and amphibians and insects and even plants have sex lives. It evolved as a means of reproduction, and only later acquired secondary roles. Those who want to divorce it completely from its primary role (and they do exist; I've been in discussions where people have argued quite strenuously that sex isn't about reproduction at all!) are in a very real sense attempting to force it to conform to their own selfish desires . . . and that, ultimately, is what is against our spiritual nature.

Our spiritual nature cannot be developed except by "dying to self" and "living in God." God has given us a dual nature: one material and one spiritual. Sex is part of the material nature, however much it may be able to play a role in a truly loving relationship. It is not what we are, even though people insist that it is. (Extreme but real example: I read an article in the long ago when the AIDS epidemic had become the big news of the day in which the author, a promiscuous homosexual who had contracted the disease, wrote about how it had affected his life. He stated near the end that he had to take a lot of precautions now to avoid spreading the illness, but that he couldn't give up his promiscuous lifestyle because that was "who he was.") God is calling us to struggle against our lower nature and to become who we truly are: not material beings, not sexual beings, but spiritual beings who are in control of the physical side of our nature and who can thus find true happiness living in conformity with His will. Although not scriptural, there is a possible explanation of why He has made it so hard that I ran across long ago in a Baha'i children's book: Because if it were too easy, it wouldn't be worth anything. Or put another way, because only by being challenged can we really prove our love for God.​

I do not even think in terms of pleasure or being happy in this world, so why would I think of it in heaven? I just want what God wants for me because I know that has to be the best thing for me. I have no idea what that will be in heaven and I try not to think about it too much. I just try to follow the teachings and laws of my religion and hope for the best.

That said, we cannot order up what we will "have" in heaven like ordering a burger at a restaurant, It will be whatever it will be and it will be, and what it will be is according to our faith and deeds.

Come again?

::: giggle :::

Sorry, I couldn't resist...

 

[Dawnofhope]

Jesus was not completely silent.
I do not know everything that is in the Gospels like you do, but I know what is most important to know.
All of that is of course fully supported by Baha'u'llah.

We will die if we do not eat, drink or sleep, but we will not die if we do not have sex. We can choose to channel our desires towards God and noble purposes. Denying our desires will work if we decide to deny them. Nothing will happen to us except that we will be free to live for God and others.

Humans are more than just animals. We have a soul and that is what differentiates us from other animals. The soul is the first among all created things to declare the excellence God, the first to recognize His glory and cleave to His truth. That is the primary purpose for which we were created, to know and worship God.

As humans we are spiritual beings, made in the image and likeness of God. In the process of living we have animal needs because we have an animal nature as well as a spiritual nature, but the Bible and the Baha’i Writings make it perfectly clear that are enjoined to rise above our animal nature and strive to live according to our spiritual nature.

John 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

John 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

1 John 2:16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.​

I am sure there are many more verses like these but I do not have the time to look for them right now.

The fact that some people don’t acknowledge what Jesus said means they do not know what He said or they don’t care, because they just want what they want.

Denying our animal desires is what Jesus has enjoined us to do. Satan is not a “being” that has independent existence, as Christians believe. Satan represents the lower animalistic nature of man that desires things that are not of God but rather of men, our selfish desires. Those things were an offence to Jesus. These are some of my favorite Bible verses.

Matthew 16:23-26 ““But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men. Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me. For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it. For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?”​

I am not saying that everyone can meet that standard, but that is the standard that was set forth. To deny it is to deny what Jesus died for.

You are very persistent. A 65 year old guy starts a thread bragging about his sexual exploits with a much younger woman who isn't his wife. Another older guy comes on the scene and starts banging on about orgasms in the after life.

The most relevant quote from bible IMHO......

Matthew 7:6

 

[Trackdayguy]

Jesus was not completely silent.
I do not know everything that is in the Gospels like you do, but I know what is most important to know.
All of that is of course fully supported by Baha'u'llah.

We will die if we do not eat, drink or sleep, but we will not die if we do not have sex. We can choose to channel our desires towards God and noble purposes. Denying our desires will work if we decide to deny them. Nothing will happen to us except that we will be free to live for God and others.

Humans are more than just animals. We have a soul and that is what differentiates us from other animals. The soul is the first among all created things to declare the excellence God, the first to recognize His glory and cleave to His truth. That is the primary purpose for which we were created, to know and worship God.

As humans we are spiritual beings, made in the image and likeness of God. In the process of living we have animal needs because we have an animal nature as well as a spiritual nature, but the Bible and the Baha’i Writings make it perfectly clear that are enjoined to rise above our animal nature and strive to live according to our spiritual nature.

John 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

John 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

1 John 2:16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.​

I am sure there are many more verses like these but I do not have the time to look for them right now.

The fact that some people don’t acknowledge what Jesus said means they do not know what He said or they don’t care, because they just want what they want.

Denying our animal desires is what Jesus has enjoined us to do. Satan is not a “being” that has independent existence, as Christians believe. Satan represents the lower animalistic nature of man that desires things that are not of God but rather of men, our selfish desires. Those things were an offence to Jesus. These are some of my favorite Bible verses.

Matthew 16:23-26 ““But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men. Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me. For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it. For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?”​

I am not saying that everyone can meet that standard, but that is the standard that was set forth. To deny it is to deny what Jesus died for.

Thanks for the sermon, but I was asking about sexual appetite. Your comments about denying are rather odd, considering it was God that gave us a sexual appetite, so are you suggesting that we deny what He gives us so we can be more holy and pure.

Sounds just like religion to me

 

[Trackdayguy]

I think the response to this post by the majority of people has been pretty consistent with the distorted picture that religious people have of sexuality. The last sermon by Trailblazer is a classic of example.

Time for me to move on this site is way to religious for me, which incidentally has nothing to do with with Godliness or holiness.

 

[Trailblazer]

considering it was God that gave us a sexual appetite, so are you suggesting that we deny what He gives us so we can be more holy and pure.

Ubetcha.

Matthew 16:23-26 But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men. Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me. For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it. For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?

 

[Axe Elf]

Ubetcha.

Matthew 16:23-26 But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men. Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me. For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it. For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?

Ummm... you quoted the wrong person there. You used my name, but quoted text written by @Trackdayguy .

 

[Trailblazer]

Ummm... you quoted the wrong person there. You used my name, but quoted text written by @Trackdayguy .

Sorry, that must have been a glitch in the system. I just edited the post.

 

[Estro Felino]

I think the response to this post by the majority of people has been pretty consistent with the distorted picture that religious people have of sexuality. The last sermon by Trailblazer is a classic of example.

Time for me to move on this site is way to religious for me, which incidentally has nothing to do with with Godliness or holiness.

I agree with you....
God wants us to be happy and to express our sexuality in the form we find the most suitable.