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Featured Setting The Bible Reader Straight

Discussion in 'Scriptural Debates' started by Skwim, Dec 23, 2019.

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  1. sooda

    sooda Veteran Member

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    Do you believe that Jesus didn't eat or drink for 40 days?
     
  2. 3rdAngel

    3rdAngel Well-Known Member

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    Not really. What you claim is that you know the scriptures not having God's Spirit better than those who know God's Word and have his Spirit. According to the scriptures spiritual things are spiritually discerned and the natural man receives not the things of the Spirit of God neither can he know them for they are foolishness unto him *1 Corinthians 2:14. No one can know God's Word if they do not have God's Spirit and do not know God *1 Corinthians 2:12-16; John 14:26; 1 Corinthians 3:19; 1 Corinthians 2:14; 1 Corinthians 3:19. According to God's Word as an unbeliever, your interpretation of the scriptures is foolishness in God's eyes because you do not know God. This thread is a very good example of proving God's Word true.

    For this I thank you :)
     
  3. sooda

    sooda Veteran Member

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    What a neat hat trick...
     
  4. 3rdAngel

    3rdAngel Well-Known Member

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    The scriptures do not say JESUS did not drink when he was fasting for 40 days in the wilderness. Your reading into the scriptures things they do not say again.
     
  5. sooda

    sooda Veteran Member

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    Fasting Judaism

    • In Judaism, fasting is observed in several annual days, primarily on days of penitence (such as Yom Kippur , the Day of Atonement) or mourning. Fasting for Jews means completely abstaining from food and drink, including water. In Christianity, especially Roman Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy ,...
    Fasting in Islam & other religions
    www.patheos.com/blogs/islamahmadiyya/2015/06/fasting-in-islam-other-religions/
     
  6. 3rdAngel

    3rdAngel Well-Known Member

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    Nonsense! Read what the scripture says. The only time complete fasting was required for ISRAEL was on the annual day of atonement.

    Get your facts right...

    Matthew 4:2 [2], And when he had fasted forty days and forty nights, he was afterward an hungered. Fast[ed] G3522; νηστεύω; nēsteuō From G3523; to abstain from food (religiously): - fast.

    The scripture is not talking about the day of atonement which was one of the annual feastivals. It is talking about Jesus time in the wilderness prior to temptation.
     
    #146 3rdAngel, Dec 25, 2019
    Last edited: Dec 25, 2019
  7. sooda

    sooda Veteran Member

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    LOLOL.. Now you are claiming the Jews, the authors of the gospels, didn't know what fasting is??
     
  8. 3rdAngel

    3rdAngel Well-Known Member

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    Not at all. I am claiming you do not know what fasting means as applied to Jesus temptation in the wilderness. Please read post # 146 it proves it and addresses what you posted and shows that what you posted was not applicable to the scripture you are trying to apply it to with Jesus fasting in the wilderness *Matthew 4:2
     
    #148 3rdAngel, Dec 25, 2019
    Last edited: Dec 25, 2019
  9. 3rdAngel

    3rdAngel Well-Known Member

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    This is a distraction to what we are discussing in regards to JESUS temptation in the wilderness. Read what you are posting. What you have posted are not compulsary fasts for all Israelites. Only the annual day of atonement *Yom Kippur was a compulsary fast for all Israelites. Jesus temptation in the wilderness has nothing to do with these fasts when he fasted 40 days and 40 nights prior to his temptations in the wilderness neither does it say he could not drink water as your friend claims. This is another good example of your guys trying to read into the scriptures things the scriptures do not say.

    Hope this helps :).
     
    #149 3rdAngel, Dec 25, 2019
    Last edited: Dec 25, 2019
  10. Skwim

    Skwim Veteran Member

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    The post was withdrawn about 6 minutes ago. Before I read your reply here. I decided the subject was simply too boring to pursue.

    .
     
  11. 3rdAngel

    3rdAngel Well-Known Member

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    Ok no problem. I think it was not because the subject was boring. If you could have proven your claims that Jesus did not drink any water in a 40 day fast, you would have been all over it. It was simply because what you guys were trying to argue was simply wrong and you realised it. This is in contrast to the rest of the content in this op which has been proven wrong but your still trying to read into the scriptures things the scriptures do not say. The scripture does not say Jesus did not drink any water while fasting in the wilderness. That was simply you guys reading things into the scriptures again that the scripture do not teach. All you have done is to prove God's Word true.

    For this we are thankful :)
     
    #151 3rdAngel, Dec 25, 2019
    Last edited: Dec 25, 2019
  12. 1213

    1213 Well-Known Member

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    Ok, I understand that you want to see errors, even if there are none. But Jesus is speaking of “herbs” as one can see from here:

    which indeed is smaller than all seeds. But when it is grown, it is greater than the herbs, and becomes a tree, so that the birds of the air come and lodge in its branches."
    Matt. 13:32

    Herb means in that any pot herb, vegetables.

    Does your atheism collapse, if there is not mistake in that?
     
  13. 1213

    1213 Well-Known Member

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    Wikipedia says: “…The seeds are usually about 1 to 2 millimetres (0.039 to 0.079 in) in diameter…”.

    Mustard seed - Wikipedia

    Should I believe you, or Wikipedia?
     
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  14. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

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    That is because your own false beliefs lead to misinterpretation. If you were clear about your version of God I could probably prove that he does not exist. Probably not to you since you will almost certainly refuse to reason rationally.

    One of the first things that tells you the Bible is false is the sort of verse that you quoted at me. If the Bible was the word of God there should be no need for such defensive verses. Don't worry, the Bible is not unique in using those sorts of verses. By your standards Islam is true. They have the same sort of dishonest attacks against nonbelievers.
     
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  15. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

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    Poppies would count as "herbs" since there seeds are used as a flavoring agent. Guess what? Its seeds are smaller that that of the mustard plant.
     
  16. Skwim

    Skwim Veteran Member

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    First of all, do mustard plants become trees? Of course not.

    upload_2019-12-25_22-49-8.jpeg
    (The yellow plants are the mustard)​

    They're relatively low growing plants that never develop a perennial woody structure.

    PLUS

    The poppy seed, which is also an herb, AND GROWS IN ISRAEL, is smaller than the mustard seed (see image in the OP).

    "Poppy seed is an oilseed obtained from the poppy (Papaver somniferum). The tiny kidney-shaped seeds have been harvested from dried seed pods by various civilizations for thousands of years. It is still widely used in many countries, especially in Central Europe, where it is legally grown and sold in shops."
    Source: Wikipedia

    Poppy, Papaver somniferum L., is an annual herb native to Southeastern Europe and western Asia. Also known as opium poppy, the species is cultivated extensively in many countries, including Iran, Turkey, Holland, Poland, Romania, Czechoslovakia, Yugoslavia, India, Canada, and many Asian and Central and South American countries. Reaching a height of 1.2 meters, the erect plant can have white, pink, red, or purple flowers. Seeds range in color from white to a slate shade that is called blue in commercial classifications.
    source

    Conclusion: Jesus and you have something in common. Neither of you know what you're talking about when it comes to mustard seeds.

    .
     
    #156 Skwim, Dec 26, 2019
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2019
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  17. PearlSeeker

    PearlSeeker Active Member

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    An atheist said to a Christian: "There is no heaven."

    Christian:"Why do you say so?"

    Atheist: "If there was a heaven, it would have been 10 to 20 miles from Jerusalem."

    Christian: "Where did you get this?"

    Atheist: "I've read it in the Bible ofcourse."

    Christian: "Really? Where?"

    Atheist: "When Jesus was on the cross, he said to the other crucified criminal: Truly I tell you, today you will be with me in paradise."

    :D
     
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  18. 3rdAngel

    3rdAngel Well-Known Member

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    Seems you are having a bad day getting your facts right...

    The problem here with this comparison of yours here is that the actual mustard plant being referred to in the scriptures is unknown. It is not the same as the comonly cultivated mustard plants we have today as shown in your picture above. The scriptures here are in reference to the mustard tree some believe refer to a tree known in the middle east as Salvadora persica.

    It is mentioned that this plant was cultivated by the Hebrews in the Tamuld and grew into a tree having similar properties to mustard. Luke's account of the same parable in Luke 13:19 says that this mustard plant turned into a great tree. So the above is evidence that we are not referring to the common mustard plant where birds can build their nests.

    The mustard tree is mentioned in the Greek new testament through the name G4615 σίναπι; sinapi which means a plant to hurt and sting; mustard. The Hebrew and Syriac name being mustard and the Arabic name being chardul or Khardal which has the same properties as the smaller mustard plant as we know it. It also has the smallest of seeds (not smallest known seed) but at the time of the writing of the scriptures for most people it would have been known as some of the smallest cultivated of seeds that can grow into a tree up to 25 feet high.

    (Source; On the Identification of the Mustard Tree of Scripture Author(s): J. Forbes Royle Source: The Journal of the Royal Asiatic Society of Great Britain and Ireland, Vol. 8 (1846), pp. 113-137, Cambridge University press)

    Your welcome :)
     
    #158 3rdAngel, Dec 26, 2019
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2019
  19. 3rdAngel

    3rdAngel Well-Known Member

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    YawwwnZ, sorry did you say something? Please wake me up when you want to discuss the posts and scriptures shared with you that show why you are in error. Until than your words do not really matter as they are simply your words denying God's Word so your argument is with God not me. Only God's Word is true and we should believe and follow them. :)
     
  20. Skwim

    Skwim Veteran Member

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    If the mustard seed referred to is from the mustard tree Salvadora persica it hardly comes close to being "the smallest seed on earth." In fact, compared to the seed of the mustard herb from the genus Brassica it is quite large.

    Whereas the mustard herb, Brassica Nigra has seeds that range in size from 1 to 2 mm, the mustard tree, Salvadora persica's seeds range from 3 to 5 mm.

    mustard seed.png
    So if Jesus point was really one of comparison he would have been better off to use the seeds of the mustard herb Brassica Nigra rather than that of the mustard tree Salvadora persica. Both plants being native to Israel.

    .

     
    #160 Skwim, Dec 26, 2019
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2019
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