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Scripturally speaking.....

Brickjectivity

wind and rain touch not this brain
Staff member
Premium Member
By whom did sin enter the world, how did it enter, and what are the results of it entering?
There is an interesting comment about this in Romans 7.
Once I was alive apart from the law; but when the commandment came, sin sprang to life and I died. I found that the very commandment that was intended to bring life actually brought death. For sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, deceived me, and through the commandment put me to death. So then, the law is holy, and the commandment is holy, righteous and good. Did that which is good, then, become death to me? By no means! Nevertheless, in order that sin might be recognized as sin, it used what is good to bring about my death, so that through the commandment sin might become utterly sinful. We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin. I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me.
For I know that good itself does not dwell in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. For I do not do the good I want to do, but the evil I do not want to do--this I keep on doing.
Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it. So I find this law at work: Although I want to do good, evil is right there with me. For in my inner being I delight in God's law; (Rom 7:9-22 NIV)
It is part of an exegesis of atonement for gentiles. This author states that the law causes sin to come alive in Paul but that he also desires to do right, showing that there is a war within himself. He also borrows from the imagery of the garden, Eden. He doesn't refer directly to the story of the garden, and that is a good thing since it would be easy to take his analogy too far. The "Sin living in him" alludes to a statement in which the LORD warns Cain about the sin within himself which desires mastery over Cain. (In the story Cain kills his brother, so it is very violent impulse.) From this Paul gets his wording about that law of sin within fighting against his own will, his own desire to do right. So Paul puts forward that the sin is dormant within a person until the law comes and reveals it. The sin in Paul is also analogous to the world before the light is created and separated from the darkness in Genesis 1. The darkness (and by extension the law of sin) preexists the law which is like the creation of and separation of light from darkness. It is just like in Genesis 1.
 

Terry Sampson

Well-Known Member
Wisdom of Solomon
  • Chapter 1
    • 11 Beware then of useless grumbling,
      and keep your tongue from slander;
      because no secret word is without result,
      and a lying mouth destroys the soul.

      12 Do not invite death by the error of your life,
      or bring on destruction by the works of your hands;
      13 because God did not make death,
      and he does not delight in the death of the living.
      14 For he created all things so that they might exist;
      the generative forces of the world are wholesome,
      and there is no destructive poison in them,
      and the dominion of Hades is not on earth.
      15 For righteousness is immortal.
    • 16 But the ungodly by their words and deeds summoned death;
      considering him a friend, they pined away
      and made a covenant with him,
      because they are fit to belong to his company.
  • Chapter 2
    • For they reasoned unsoundly, saying to themselves,
      “Short and sorrowful is our life,
      and there is no remedy when a life comes to its end,
      and no one has been known to return from Hades.
      2 For we were born by mere chance,
      and hereafter we shall be as though we had never been,
      for the breath in our nostrils is smoke,
      and reason is a spark kindled by the beating of our hearts;
      3 when it is extinguished, the body will turn to ashes,
      and the spirit will dissolve like empty air.
      4 Our name will be forgotten in time,
      and no one will remember our works;
      our life will pass away like the traces of a cloud,
      and be scattered like mist
      that is chased by the rays of the sun
      and overcome by its heat.
      5 For our allotted time is the passing of a shadow,
      and there is no return from our death,
      because it is sealed up and no one turns back.
      6 “Come, therefore, let us enjoy the good things that exist,
      and make use of the creation to the full as in youth.
      7 Let us take our fill of costly wine and perfumes,
      and let no flower of spring pass us by.
      8 Let us crown ourselves with rosebuds before they wither.
      9 Let none of us fail to share in our revelry;
      everywhere let us leave signs of enjoyment,
      because this is our portion, and this our lot.
      10 Let us oppress the righteous poor man;
      let us not spare the widow
      or regard the gray hairs of the aged.
      11 But let our might be our law of right,
      for what is weak proves itself to be useless.
      12 “Let us lie in wait for the righteous man,
      because he is inconvenient to us and opposes our actions;
      he reproaches us for sins against the law,
      and accuses us of sins against our training.
      13 He professes to have knowledge of God,
      and calls himself a child of the Lord.
      14 He became to us a reproof of our thoughts;
      15 the very sight of him is a burden to us,
      because his manner of life is unlike that of others,
      and his ways are strange.
      16 We are considered by him as something base,
      and he avoids our ways as unclean;
      he calls the last end of the righteous happy,
      and boasts that God is his father.
      17 Let us see if his words are true,
      and let us test what will happen at the end of his life;
      18 for if the righteous man is God’s child, he will help him,
      and will deliver him from the hand of his adversaries.
      19 Let us test him with insult and torture,
      so that we may find out how gentle he is,
      and make trial of his forbearance.
      20 Let us condemn him to a shameful death,
      for, according to what he says, he will be protected.”
      21 Thus they reasoned, but they were led astray,
      for their wickedness blinded them,

      22 and they did not know the secret purposes of God,
      nor hoped for the wages of holiness,
      nor discerned the prize for blameless souls;
      23 for God created us for incorruption,
      and made us in the image of his own eternity,
      24 but through the devil’s envy death entered the world,
      and those who belong to his company experience it.
  • John 8
    • 34 Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, everyone who sins is a slave to sin. 35 Now a slave has no permanent place in the family, but a son belongs to it forever. 36 So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed. 37 I know that you are Abraham’s descendants. Yet you are looking for a way to kill me, because you have no room for my word. 38 I am telling you what I have seen in the Father’s presence, and you are doing what you have heard from your father."
      39 “Abraham is our father,” they answered.
      “If you were Abraham’s children,” said Jesus, “then you would do what Abraham did. 40 As it is, you are looking for a way to kill me, a man who has told you the truth that I heard from God. Abraham did not do such things. 41 You are doing the works of your own father.”
      “We are not illegitimate children,” they protested. “The only Father we have is God himself.”
      42 Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love me, for I have come here from God. I have not come on my own; God sent me. 43 Why is my language not clear to you? Because you are unable to hear what I say. 44 You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies. 45 Yet because I tell the truth, you do not believe me! 46 Can any of you prove me guilty of sin? If I am telling the truth, why don’t you believe me? 47 Whoever belongs to God hears what God says. The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God.”
  • John 8:44.
    • "the devil"
      • diabolos: slanderous, accusing falsely
        Original Word: διάβολος, ον
        Part of Speech: Adjective
        Transliteration: diabolos
        Phonetic Spelling: (dee-ab'-ol-os)
        Definition: slanderous, accusing falsely
        Usage: (adj. used often as a noun), slanderous; with the article: the Slanderer (par excellence), the Devil.
        HELPS Word-studies
        1228 diábolos (from 1225 /diabállō, "to slander, accuse, defame") – properly, a slanderer; a false accuser; unjustly criticizing to hurt (malign) and condemn to sever a relationship.
        [1228 (diábolos) is the root of the English word, "Devil" (see also Webster's Dictionary).
        1228 (diabolos) in secular Greek means "backbiter," i.e. an accuser, calumniator (slanderer). (diábolos) is literally someone who "casts through," i.e. making charges that bring down (destroy). Satan is used by God in this plan – as a predictable wind-up toy, playing out his evil nature.
    • "murderer"
      • anthrópoktonos: a manslayer
        Original Word: ἀνθρωποκτόνος, ου, ὁ
        Part of Speech: Adjective
        Transliteration: anthrópoktonos
        Phonetic Spelling: (anth-ro-pok-ton'-os)
        Definition: a manslayer
        Usage: a murderer, man-slayer.
      • NOT a phoneus: a murderer. Original Word: φονεύς, έως, ὁ
        Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
        Transliteration: phoneus
        Phonetic Spelling: (fon-yooce')
        Definition: a murderer
        Usage: a murderer.
        HELPS Word-studies
        Cognate: 5406 phoneús – a murderer, committing unjustified, intentional homicide.
 
Last edited:

LightofTruth

Well-Known Member
There is an interesting comment about this in Romans 7.

It is part of an exegesis of atonement for gentiles. This author states that the law causes sin to come alive in Paul but that he also desires to do right, showing that there is a war within himself. He also borrows from the imagery of the garden, Eden. He doesn't refer directly to the story of the garden, and that is a good thing since it would be easy to take his analogy too far. The "Sin living in him" alludes to a statement in which the LORD warns Cain about the sin within himself which desires mastery over Cain. (In the story Cain kills his brother, so it is very violent impulse.) From this Paul gets his wording about that law of sin within fighting against his own will, his own desire to do right. So Paul puts forward that the sin is dormant within a person until the law comes and reveals it. The sin in Paul is also analogous to the world before the light is created and separated from the darkness in Genesis 1. The darkness (and by extension the law of sin) preexists the law which is like the creation of and separation of light from darkness. It is just like in Genesis 1.
I find it interesting that Paul says sin lives within him. He even goes so far as to personify the sin within him as a Master. It even becomes a god because to serve sin is to serve it as a god. A person lets sin rule over him as a god.
It's also interesting that the sin which lives in him is said to be in his flesh and mind. So, there is what is called "sin in the flesh" as well as sin being transgression of the law of God, where one would actually give into the sin in the flesh and transgress God's law. But God even forbids man to desire something that does not belong to him. So, it is sin for someone to even have desires for what your neighbor has.
Eve had desires/lust for the forbidden fruit which shows that sin/lust was in her flesh and she let that sin rule over of her. But she was deceived by the serpent into thinking that she would not die. However, Adam was not deceived and he ate of the fruit anyway.
Now, Eve was made from the flesh of Adam, so her flesh which desired/lusted the fruit was the same flesh as Adam. Adam also desired/lusted the fruit which shows that he too had sin in the flesh.
James say that everyone is tempted when he is drawn away and entice by HIS OWN lust. And when the lust has conceived it brings forth sin, and sin when it is finished brings forth death.
This is important because Adam's sin has brought death to everyone. As Paul says "in Adam all sinned" and "through one man sin entered the world, and death by sin".
 

Brickjectivity

wind and rain touch not this brain
Staff member
Premium Member
I find it interesting that Paul says sin lives within him. He even goes so far as to personify the sin within him as a Master. It even becomes a god because to serve sin is to serve it as a god. A person lets sin rule over him as a god.
It's also interesting that the sin which lives in him is said to be in his flesh and mind. So, there is what is called "sin in the flesh" as well as sin being transgression of the law of God, where one would actually give into the sin in the flesh and transgress God's law. But God even forbids man to desire something that does not belong to him. So, it is sin for someone to even have desires for what your neighbor has.
Eve had desires/lust for the forbidden fruit which shows that sin/lust was in her flesh and she let that sin rule over of her. But she was deceived by the serpent into thinking that she would not die. However, Adam was not deceived and he ate of the fruit anyway.
Now, Eve was made from the flesh of Adam, so her flesh which desired/lusted the fruit was the same flesh as Adam. Adam also desired/lusted the fruit which shows that he too had sin in the flesh.
James say that everyone is tempted when he is drawn away and entice by HIS OWN lust. And when the lust has conceived it brings forth sin, and sin when it is finished brings forth death.
This is important because Adam's sin has brought death to everyone. As Paul says "in Adam all sinned" and "through one man sin entered the world, and death by sin".
The difference in Adam before and after the fruit is the same as the difference in Paul before and after knowing the law. Thus by this argument sin enters into the world through our knowledge of good and evil. It is neither the serpent nor some artifice but our ability to tell one thing from another, and it interacts with our nature in a toxic way according to Paul's argument. It is hard to tell if if he thinks we should become ignorant again. If he does I disagree with him, and I think in that case he would be disagreeing with the choice to eat the fruit. That is why I wouldn't want him to take his analogy too far. I think we should retain the knowledge, endure the internal struggle.
 
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