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Satanic Monument in OKC

Adramelek

Setian
Premium Member
I wonder what the people in Oklahoma think..?

I live in Oklahoma and the majority of people I've heard on the news is that they are against it, and would rather have the ten commandments monument scrapped rather than also have a monument dedicated to Satan on the capitol grounds.
 
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Yadon

Active Member
Seems The Satanic Temple has been working on their site some due to the news coverage.

This just accured to me. A design for the Satanic monument could be a large black trapezoidal monolith with a silver inverse pentagram at its top center, and sitting atop the trapezoid the figure of "The Thinker" from the "Gates of Hell" in a gold or copper color. And on the face of the monolith below the pentagram could be written, in silver gothic letters, the "Nine Satanic Statements" from the Satanic Bible. Just one Satanist's opinion.

Xeper.
/Adramelek\

I think they would prefer their own beliefs, taken from their own site:


  1. Strive to act with compassion and reciprocity toward all creatures in accordance with reason.
  2. The struggle for justice is an ongoing pursuit.
  3. People are fallible, and although we should all try to do our best, poor judgment is inevitable. If we make a mistake, we should do our best to rectify it, and resolve any harm that may have been caused by our misdeeds.
  4. One’s body is inviolable, subject to one’s own will alone.
  5. Beliefs should conform to our best scientific understanding of the world. We should take care never to distort scientific facts to fit our beliefs.
  6. The freedoms of others should be respected, even the freedom to offend. To willfully encroach upon the freedoms of another is to forego your own.
  7. There are, and will continue to be, things unknown and misunderstood. We must recognize this, never taking pride in ignorance, never assuming the unknown to be forever unknowable.
  8. While proselytizing might have noble intent, it is not acceptable to coerce or push your beliefs on others. It is always best to lead by example.
  9. Every tenet is a guiding principle designed to inspire nobility in action and thought. The spirit of compassion and wisdom should always prevail over the written or spoken word.
 

Triumphant_Loser

Libertarian Egalitarian
The Young Turks report on the story:

Now Hindus want a monument to one of their gods! This is freaking awesome!

[youtube]8xfL6Ga3X88[/youtube]
Satan Is Causing Trouble In Oklahoma - YouTube

As a Deist, I'm flabbergasted! Why can't WE get OUR own monument too!?! I know how to fix this! Let's just make a monument for ALL the religions and place them in a circle around the Capitol. It's fool proof... fool proof I tell ya'.:D
 

The Heathen

Member
What do you think about this?

Satanists want to erect monument next to Ten Commandments statue in Oklahoma

Xeper.
/Adramelek\

I agree with the group's premise: if government allows one sect to promote its beliefs in the public square, then government shouldn't bar other sects from doing the same thing. I prefer, however, that people keep such beliefs a matter of private conscience and leave their religious artifacts out of the public square, which exists to debate public policy, not for Satan and Moses to stare one another down.
 

Yadon

Active Member
As a Deist, I'm flabbergasted! Why can't WE get OUR own monument too!?! I know how to fix this! Let's just make a monument for ALL the religions and place them in a circle around the Capitol. It's fool proof... fool proof I tell ya'.:D

I checked The Satanic Temple's facebook page, they mentioned about the Hindus and mentioned that it took momentum like they had planned. So apparently this IS what they intended, to get many people to want to put one up :D
 

Adramelek

Setian
Premium Member
I checked The Satanic Temple's facebook page, they mentioned about the Hindus and mentioned that it took momentum like they had planned. So apparently this IS what they intended, to get many people to want to put one up :D

Yeah, I understand that Buddhists are wanting to get in on this as well. Chaos magic can be fun!
 

Yadon

Active Member
Yeah, I understand that Buddhists are wanting to get in on this as well. Chaos magic can be fun!

Buddhists too now?! This is AWESOME!

This is the kind of magic we should be doing in the world, snowball effects!

Either way they are screwed, they have to allow all the donated ones or take down the 10 commandments. They have no other options.
 

Kemble

Active Member
Gilmore really hit it over the head.

CoS News: Let's You and Him Fight said:
In recent years we’ve noted that some secularists think is is “clever” to use Satanism or the name “Church of Satan” (or some variant thereof) as a means towards their political ends. Their theory is that if Satanists demand the same irritating forms of public proselytizing as do certain Christian sects, then “people” will “wake up” and see how foolish the Christians are and so end their irksome displays. Would that raising consciousness in the herd were so simple.

Some atheists seem quite pleased by such actions since they take the attitude that it is fun to watch self-proclaimed “Satanists” mud-wrestling with Christians in a vain attempt at self-promotion in forums which by all rights should maintain religious neutrality. Anton LaVey noted the title of the Popeye cartoon from 1934, “Let’s You and Him Fight,” in discussing this position: agitating a conflict but then stepping-back to observe the fisticuffs between others that have been promoted. One then enjoys the brawl but remains free of injury—or any other responsibility, as the crowd probably didn’t catch the instigator’s overture but just gathered to watch when the actual fight broke out. The Satanist is supposed to be savvy to such tactics and should avoid being manipulated in this manner.

We’ve seen it happen in the UK as well as in the US. Doubtless it has happened elsewhere, but usually these incidents are so ephemeral that they don’t come to our attention until long after they have happened. Of course today anyone can broadcast a press release and it seems that contemporary journalists are in need of a scandal-of-the-minute, so these incidents receive wider attention than they truly merit. We’ve witnessed some folks pretending to be actual devil worshipers, advocating prayers to Satan to be said in classrooms along side hymns to Jesus. We’ve seen others lifting passages from our literature, courting non-Satanist atheists to support their acts with a wink and a nod, meaning they likely really don’t want to be evangelizing Satanism, but do so to annoy the Christians and “make a point.” Of course, “Who gets the point?” is the real question. And, if the ulterior motives for such actions are made clear, then the disingenuousness of the actual proposed project (which might require funds that are lacking) may well be enough to negate the validity of such efforts. That would likely be up to civil rights attorneys to hash out, if they so choose.

The Church of Satan has an atheist philosophy and so we support the American ideal of separation of church and state, which is a means for the secularization of our society. The U.S. is a republic, not a democracy, and this is a wise device for maintaining a balance so that a majority does not force other minority positions into compliance with their values. We Satanists are against evangelizing and proselytizing (in any form) as we consider these to be intrusive, bullying acts that are antagonistic to free will. Having any religion foisted on unwilling people is not Satanic. Such deeds in a rational society should be deemed to be criminal. Laws that promote a majority religion’s beliefs which could hamper the cilvil rights of those outside that religion should be repealed where they exist. Fortunately we’ve seen a wave of sanity recently wherein more and more states are allowing equal civil rights under the law by establishing legal same-sex marriages—a position I’ve advocated for many years.

We suggest that people come to their religious and philosophical beliefs in a mature, considered manner, based on study and reflection—not forced conversion. Thus, we advocate that publicly funded forums of any sort should be devoid of any religious references, and that goes for courthouses, public schools, and any other governmental structures or documents (state and federal). We’d enjoy the deletion of “In God We Trust” from our currency. This alternative national motto from the mid-fifties is inferior to the secular “E pluribus unum”, which dates from 1782 and should be proudly restored as more proper to the principles of this nation. We join other secularists in calling for the deletion of “under God” in the “Pledge of Allegiance,” as well as ending swearing on Christian (or any other) scriptures in courts of law.

Satanism is a newer religion, having been concretized as a coherent philosophy and spread by a global organization beginning in 1966. We have been faced with prejudice and misunderstanding because Anton LaVey purposely chose an iconoclastic paradigm, but in the almost five decades of our existence we’ve made headway into being taken seriously by scholars, historians and certain aware segments of the general populace. We don’t want to undercut this success by going for “cheap shots” meant to garner quick publicity when such could make Satanism seem like a position that is just as offensive as the spiritual religions clamoring for unearned attention, part of their agenda of hijacking society for their own belief systems. We support the secularization of society as do many others who value reason and free thought. You who believe in Gods or Devils are free to embrace your own religions, just don’t force them on those of us who are not interested or actively find them to be repugnant.

Thus we do not endorse the idea of putting Satanic monuments, texts or images in public spaces. Rather than allowing a hodgepodge of competing theologies, most of which misrepresent fundamental American principles, we prefer that no religious iconography be used in these arenas. We have plenty of literature crafted by our Founding Fathers which accurately represents the conceptual foundations of the United States, and these are thoughts that should be promoted with pride, but more importantly, should also be understood, maintained, and employed towards maintaining a just society.
 
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Yadon

Active Member
Gilmore really hit it over the head.

What Gilmore says really doesn't matter. He only represents his own narrow world view that he promotes through the Church of Satan, which is an anti-theist organization based on Ayn Rand's philosophies. It has nothing to do with occultism, it's just hedonism and Laissez faire Capitalism with the explicit endorsement of socio-economic stratification.

I don't see how any of this (anything the Church of Satan says) is relevant to an organization such as the Satanic Temple or it's beliefs, which I posted earlier; that of social responsibility, rational empathy and the embracing of science. One is inherently right-wring the other is left-wing.

The reason the Satanic Temple even said they would do this was to force them to take down the 10 commandments, as they have said. Which kind of nullifies any relevance of your criticism against this since both are to take down religious monuments.

The fact is, an organization only has say for itself, not for other organizations. The Church of Satan has no authority or right or privilege to tell other Satanic organizations what to do nor control or dictate what labels they use. If they disagree they have a right to but that doesn't mean they have some magical control over the definition of who Satanists are. From a semantic and historical viewpoint it's nonsensical to think that they have any intellectual basis for doing so.
 
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Adramelek

Setian
Premium Member
The US Constitution provides that Congress shall make no law respecting any established religion over another, or that impedes upon the freedom of religion or the free expression thereof. It is this premise of the First Amendment that this whole debate is centered around. Hence, any religious group has the right to erect a monument on both private and/or public property dedicated to their religion, be they Christian or Satanist, or Hindu, or Buddhist, or Muslim, etc. The government denying a certain established religious group from doing this on public grounds is showing a prejudice and preferance of one religion over another - which, again, is un-Constitutional.

Xeper.
/Adramelek\
 
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Yadon

Active Member
The US Constitution provides that Congress shall make no law respecting any established religion over another, or that impedes upon the freedom of religion or the free expression thereof. It is this premise of the First Amendment that this whole debate is centered around. Hence, any religious group has the right to erect a monument on both private and/or public property dedicated to their religion, be they Christian or Satanist, or Hindu, or Buddhist, or Muslim, etc. The government denying a certain established religious group from doing this on public grounds is showing a prejudice and preferance of one religion over another - which, again, is un-Constitutional.

Xeper.
/Adramelek\

Exactly! The entire point is to prove that it's all or none. If they won't remove it, they will get people to annoy the Christians by putting a bunch up.
 

Mindmaster

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
"The Satanic Temple" is a media whore scam. I believe the last time I heard of them they were up to this. 'Pink Mass' Has Made Westboro Baptist Church Founder's Mom Gay In Afterlife, Satanists Claim. They were also trying to get another monument built in Florida, and a highway sign named after them. Considering their forums have no members, their twitters have a lot of followers but no non-self posts, and the like I doubt they are real and anything but a gag.
 

Adramelek

Setian
Premium Member
Who didn't see this coming? The "Tulsa World" reports - "Oklahoma City swamped with inquiries about building on Capitol grounds monuments from groups ranging from Satanists to "Flying Spaghetti Monster" advocates, the State Capitol Preservation Commission on Thursday declared a moratorium on approving any new ones."

Xeper.
/Adramelek\
 

Yadon

Active Member
According to their facebook page they now have $8,000 in donations. So they are moving along.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?...703.1073741826.220538341415523&type=1&theater

"The Satanic Temple" is a media whore scam. I believe the last time I heard of them they were up to this. 'Pink Mass' Has Made Westboro Baptist Church Founder's Mom Gay In Afterlife, Satanists Claim. They were also trying to get another monument built in Florida, and a highway sign named after them. Considering their forums have no members, their twitters have a lot of followers but no non-self posts, and the like I doubt they are real and anything but a gag.

It actually looks like they are a fairly new group (less than a year), so it could just be that they do not really worked on any of that.

Either way it's still freaking hilarious and does serve a good purpose.

Who didn't see this coming? The "Tulsa World" reports - "Oklahoma City swamped with inquiries about building on Capitol grounds monuments from groups ranging from Satanists to "Flying Spaghetti Monster" advocates, the State Capitol Preservation Commission on Thursday declared a moratorium on approving any new ones."

Xeper.
/Adramelek\

There is now a Flying Spaghetti Monster as a Holiday decoration at on place:

[youtube]wIrRYc-2i2s[/youtube]
Flying Spaghetti Monster Joins Baby Jesus In Holiday Display - YouTube
 
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