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Satan in Judaism: A Friend or Foe?

rosends

rosends

Well-Known Member
It
TashaN said:
Can you please verify if this is really how Judaism view Satan or not?

http://www.beingjewish.com/basics/satan.html

I was honestly surprised when i read it because i always thought that we somehow had a similar view of who Satan is.

Thank you.
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isn't complete but it is reasonably on point. The soton is like the police, the undercover cop who entraps, and the DA who prosecutes. He works for God and has his job to do.
 
Saint Frankenstein

Saint Frankenstein

Wanderer From Afar
Premium Member
Forgive me for intruding, but doesn't Islam view Satan as a Djinn and not an Angel, @TashaN? Also, I don't think Islam believes in the Christian doctrine of the fall of Satan.
 
TashaN

TashaN

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Thank you guys. One more thing, will you, as a Jewish, have no problem at all to deal with Satan if he were to meet you in person? i mean to be a friend or an ally or something similar.

@Saint Frankenstein sorry i can't give you a proper detailed answer here because it's Judaism DIR so if you want you can start a new thread in Islam DIR or send a PM to me.
 
rosends

rosends

Well-Known Member
TashaN said:
Thank you guys. One more thing, will you, as a Jewish, have no problem at all to deal with Satan if he were to meet you in person? i mean to be a friend or an ally or something similar.

@Saint Frankenstein sorry i can't give you a proper detailed answer here because it's Judaism DIR so if you want you can start a new thread in Islam DIR or send a PM to me.
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Sadly, I meet Satan everyday, in the form of temptations and the urge to sin. And I clearly have a problem because I sin.

Here is some light reading


http://bibleandjewishstudies.net/stories/Bontsha_the_Silent.pdf
 
TashaN

TashaN

Veteran Member
Premium Member
metis said:
If one were to view Satan as being powerful and having sovereignty over his flock, then we have the problem of there being two deities.
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I don't understand what you are referring to because in Islam we don't see him as powerful. In fact, he is very weak and people only follow him because he is deceitful. Though i'm still shocked because of the very positive view Judaism have about Satan.

Can Satan be an ally or a friend in Judaism? is it possible at least?
 
metis

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
TashaN said:
I don't understand what you are referring to because in Islam we don't see him as powerful. In fact, he is very weak and people only follow him because he is deceitful. Though i'm still shocked because of the very positive view Judaism have about Satan.

Can Satan be an ally or a friend in Judaism? is it possible at least?
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Most Jewish thoughts on haSatan runs this way:

Satan is a symbolic figure that deals with our internal struggles, or...

Satan exists but only at God's bidding.

Even if you believe that Satan is a weak figure but still has sovereignty not given to him by God, then you're a polytheist because he has to be viewed as another deity.
 
TashaN

TashaN

Veteran Member
Premium Member
metis said:
Most Jewish thoughts on haSatan runs this way:

Satan is a symbolic figure that deals with our internal struggles, or...

Satan exists but only at God's bidding.

Even if you believe that Satan is a weak figure but still has sovereignty not given to him by God, then you're a polytheist because he has to be viewed as another deity.
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Just to clarify my earlier comment about the Islamic stance, he doesn't have power not given to him by God. Actually, when he was expelled for refusing to acknowledge Adam, he asked God to allow him to live till the end of this earthly life to drag with him to hell many humans. God not only granted him that, but also gave him more power to use on those who don't believe in God and follow Satan. So, now when i recall some verses from the Quran i can see how Satan can be viewed as a being working for God, since this power of deceit and power over those who are not faithful are given to him by God.

(61) And [mention] when We said to the angles, "Prostrate to Adam," and they prostrated, except for Iblees. He said, "Should I prostrate to one You created from clay?"

(62) [Iblees] said, "Do You see this one whom You have honored above me? If You delay me until the Day of Resurrection, I will surely destroy his descendants, except for a few."

(63) [Allah] said, "Go, for whoever of them follows you, indeed Hell will be the recompense of you - an ample recompense.

(64) And incite [to senselessness] whoever you can among them with your voice and assault them with your horses and foot soldiers and become a partner in their wealth and their children and promise them." But Satan does not promise them except delusion.

(65) Indeed, over My [believing] servants there is for you no authority. And sufficient is your Lord as Disposer of affairs.

Quran (17:61-65)

After reading the above verses, please let me know how similar and how different it is from the way Judaism see it.

Thank you again.
 
metis

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
chevron1 said:
but is satan a free agent?

if satan has his own sovereignty, can he be the polytheist kind of deity? or is a unitheist deity?
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If Satan is entirely a "free agent", then this becomes polytheism. In Judaism, for those who believe Satan is an actually spiritual being, he can only do what God allows him to do.
 
metis

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
TashaN said:
Just to clarify my earlier comment about the Islamic stance, he doesn't have power not given to him by God. Actually, when he was expelled for refusing to acknowledge Adam, he asked God to allow him to live till the end of this earthly life to drag with him to hell many humans. God not only granted him that, but also gave him more power to use on those who don't believe in God and follow Satan. So, now when i recall some verses from the Quran i can see how Satan can be viewed as a being working for God, since this power of deceit and power over those who are not faithful are given to him by God.

(61) And [mention] when We said to the angles, "Prostrate to Adam," and they prostrated, except for Iblees. He said, "Should I prostrate to one You created from clay?"

(62) [Iblees] said, "Do You see this one whom You have honored above me? If You delay me until the Day of Resurrection, I will surely destroy his descendants, except for a few."

(63) [Allah] said, "Go, for whoever of them follows you, indeed Hell will be the recompense of you - an ample recompense.

(64) And incite [to senselessness] whoever you can among them with your voice and assault them with your horses and foot soldiers and become a partner in their wealth and their children and promise them." But Satan does not promise them except delusion.

(65) Indeed, over My [believing] servants there is for you no authority. And sufficient is your Lord as Disposer of affairs.

Quran (17:61-65)

After reading the above verses, please let me know how similar and how different it is from the way Judaism see it.

Thank you again.
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You're welcome, but please realize that the above has slipped into polytheism. If he is a deity that has independence from God, then he also is a god, therefore polytheism. IOW, either God is sovereign over all or He isn't.
 
chevron1

chevron1

Active Member
metis said:
If Satan is entirely a "free agent", then this becomes polytheism. In Judaism, for those who believe Satan is an actually spiritual being, he can only do what God allows him to do.
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but if jews were to prefer satan over god, then if satan is not a god, but only a spirit, god would not be angry?
 
TashaN

TashaN

Veteran Member
Premium Member
metis said:
You're welcome, but please realize that the above has slipped into polytheism. If he is a deity that has independence from God, then he also is a god, therefore polytheism. IOW, either God is sovereign over all or He isn't.
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Can you please elaborate on what you mean by "independence from God"?
 
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