1. Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Featured Satan beats people up so they won't be saved

Discussion in 'Scriptural Debates' started by 74x12, Apr 24, 2019.

  1. 74x12

    74x12 Well-Known Member
    It's My Birthday!

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2017
    Messages:
    2,965
    Ratings:
    +728
    Religion:
    Itiswhatitis
    He drags people into sins and makes them suffer pain and degradation so they will be forever alienated towards their Creator.

    1 Peter 5:8-9
    2 Corinthians 2:11

    Isaiah 42:22
    But this is a people robbed and spoiled; they are all of them snared in holes, and they are hid in prison houses: they are for a prey, and none delivereth; for a spoil, and none saith, Restore.
     
  2. Hubert Farnsworth

    Hubert Farnsworth Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2016
    Messages:
    2,707
    Ratings:
    +1,881
    Religion:
    De Facto Atheist - technically Agnostic
    So tell me, why did your god create this being called satan if satan always tries to mess with God's plans?
     
    • Like Like x 1
  3. 74x12

    74x12 Well-Known Member
    It's My Birthday!

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2017
    Messages:
    2,965
    Ratings:
    +728
    Religion:
    Itiswhatitis
    Someone was saying that satan goes through the orchard and beats up all the fruit before the reapers can pick them. So all the fruit is bruised and the reapers will get their hands messy when they gather the fruit in the end time.

    Jesus ate with sinners. I think the world is a very messed up place and so no one can be perfect here; except Jesus. But what did Jesus do? He took all the sins of the world on Himself.
     
  4. 74x12

    74x12 Well-Known Member
    It's My Birthday!

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2017
    Messages:
    2,965
    Ratings:
    +728
    Religion:
    Itiswhatitis
    It's off topic; but I'll answer you briefly. Shadows exist because things stand against the Light. So God needs satan because God needs evil to exist. Yet, God cannot directly create evil Himself. It would be impossible.

    Just as metal is refined in the fire. The creation of God is refined and defined by evil. So, evil exists so that goodness can triumph over it.

    But, God has weighed all things in the balances beforehand and all things are in His hands and not one grain of wheat will slip through; even though they are sifted in the whole world.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  5. Katzpur

    Katzpur Not your average Mormon

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2005
    Messages:
    29,704
    Ratings:
    +5,558
    Religion:
    LDS Christian
    Hmmm. It kind of sounds like you're suggesting that he is more powerful than God then, or that God doesn't care enough about us to help us resist temptation.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  6. Hubert Farnsworth

    Hubert Farnsworth Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2016
    Messages:
    2,707
    Ratings:
    +1,881
    Religion:
    De Facto Atheist - technically Agnostic
    Your argument makes no logical sense. Why can't good exist without evil?
     
  7. Katzpur

    Katzpur Not your average Mormon

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2005
    Messages:
    29,704
    Ratings:
    +5,558
    Religion:
    LDS Christian
    It's not that good couldn't exist without evil, but without both, either one is kind of meaningless.
     
    • Winner Winner x 1
  8. ACEofALLaces

    ACEofALLaces Member

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2019
    Messages:
    231
    Ratings:
    +79
    Religion:
    None
    But BEFORE that, Jesus, (you know that "perfect guy", came upon a fruitless fig tree, when he was really itching for a fig to eat....and it annoyed Jesus so much that he literally "beat the crap" out of that fig tree, causing to wilt and die there on the spot.

    All the while, this "perfect Jesus", failed to realize that figs just happened to be OUT OF SEASON at that time.

    Oh well, it made for a pretty good story though, as all the Sunday School teachers made a big deal out of it.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  9. Shadow Wolf

    Shadow Wolf Crazy Diamond

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2005
    Messages:
    55,844
    Ratings:
    +18,597
    Religion:
    God is in the Rain
    Funny. God tormented me, inflicted pain and suffering upon me, and tore me down. Lucifer empowered me to pick myself up and make my life significantly better. God and his ilk degraded me in ways you probably can't understand. Lucifer set me down the path towards realizing I don't need all the needless shame and guilt of this "sin," and I need not be ashamed or embarrassed of myself. And instead of praying to god for help, Lucifer encourages pride in self achievement but having enough senses to know when to ask for help.
    Lucifer destroyed the chains and shackles the Clergy placed around me when I was offered to god.

    Actually, darkness is the default. Shadows exist darkness was there first. Light is the invader.

    Surely anything worthy of being called god is not so petty and trivial it creates something with the intention of "triumphing" over it, especially when the alleged triumph is inevitable.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
  10. joe lewis

    joe lewis New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2019
    Messages:
    9
    Ratings:
    +8
    "He drags people into sins" makes it sound as if people don't have a choice. Is that really the case? The biblical Job suffered tremendous pain and degradation didn't he, but isn't he an example of what is mentioned at the end of one of the passages you quoted: (1 Peter 5:8-9) "Resist him, standing firm in the faith, because you know that the family of believers throughout the world is undergoing the same kind of sufferings.". Isn't this similar to James 4:7 "Resist the devil, and he will flee from you".

    I wonder sometimes if God let Satan create Hell to punish people for blaming Satan for the evil that MEN - and women :) - do! Poor fellow...can you imagine how stressful it must be to get blamed for just about all the evil in the world. I wouldn't want to be his therapist!

    So here's an interesting question. We blame the evil in the world on the devil, yet what does God say in Isaiah 43:7? "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things." But wait, God is saying that HE created evil and darkness! So is the Devil just God's helper - manifesting God's darkness, while the other angels manifest his light? Why would God create evil? Was it a typo in the translation? Or...is it possible that Good and Evil are like the two poles of a battery that are needed for electricity to flow.... except in this case the "electricity" is the spiritual evolution of humanity? I wonder how many of us would seek a spiritual light, if there were no darkness to stumble, fall and wander around lost in?

    The fact that even Jesus Christ had to get tempted by Satan - before his death and resurrection- makes me wonder if Satan is - or is a symbol for - something a little more profound than a reason for us to blame OUR inner demons, bad luck, bad judgement, and lack of spirituality on?
     
  11. Mindmaster

    Mindmaster Well-Known Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2010
    Messages:
    5,111
    Ratings:
    +2,641
    Religion:
    Theistic Satanist
    The problem with this logic of course is that absolves people of personal responsibility -- blame The Devil instead of oneself, sure makes it easy for ya.

    The other issue of course is that if things are as they say in The Bible, then if Satan exists and does bad things to some extent Jehovah condones those actions, as if he didn't, he'd just stop Satan in his tracks no doubt. Or, of course, the Bible lies completely on the matter and God isn't as powerful as he says.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  12. PureX

    PureX Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2006
    Messages:
    11,897
    Ratings:
    +4,177
    Religion:
    Philosophical Taoist/Christian
    "Satan" is a childish caricature for self-deception. As adults, I think we ought to contemplate the phenomena directly. I see no positive reason why a grown man or woman would need to employ such a conceptual artifice.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  13. Stevicus

    Stevicus Well-Known Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2011
    Messages:
    8,732
    Ratings:
    +4,260
    Religion:
    Agnostic
    Is it really Satan doing this, though? Why do people sin? Hunger, fatigue, loneliness, illness, fear - among other reasons. These are apparent design flaws put into us by the Creator, not Satan.

    If you put dogs in a cage and then throw in a slice of meat for them to fight over, you can't very well blame the dogs, can you? You can't blame some third party who had nothing to do with setting it up that way either. The only one to blame for the situation is the Designer Himself. Worse still, rather than owning up to His mistakes, He blames subordinates for His own failures.
     
  14. Shadow Wolf

    Shadow Wolf Crazy Diamond

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2005
    Messages:
    55,844
    Ratings:
    +18,597
    Religion:
    God is in the Rain
    The same could be said of all religions.
     
  15. Nowhere Man

    Nowhere Man Bompu Zen Man with a little bit of Bushido.

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2009
    Messages:
    23,657
    Ratings:
    +8,850
    Religion:
    Zen Buddhism
    God is obviously wimpy if he can't kick the *** of a little devil.
     
  16. Hawkins

    Hawkins Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2008
    Messages:
    1,304
    Ratings:
    +106
    Because that's how freewill works. If it's not Satan someone else will take his place.

    Freewill signifies division. God allows angel division to happen in the current heaven, and human division on the current earth. The final judgment marks the end of the division. Those angels and humans passing the judgment will enter the final Heaven (which is the New Earth and New Heaven in the book of Rev.)

    As for the question will there be another division in the final Heaven. It's unlikely the case as God foresaw everything before setting up the environment (current heaven and earth) for such a division where Satan is actually a key factor. To put it another way, without the existence of Satan, such a division may not work as intended!
     
    #16 Hawkins, Apr 25, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2019
  17. 74x12

    74x12 Well-Known Member
    It's My Birthday!

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2017
    Messages:
    2,965
    Ratings:
    +728
    Religion:
    Itiswhatitis
    Sorry but, as we know all things are comprised of energy. Split the atom ... energy is released including light. Light is the default of God's creation. God made all things in the Light. That's why in Genesis 1:3 He turned the Light on first and then made all things in the Light.

    I'm really not sure how you think God tortured you but it sounds like you're blaming God for something. In any case, that's part of satan's plan. Do things to people and have them blame God for it.

    As for good triumphing over evil. Yes it is really important. For example; if there was no evil conditions then there would be no need to show mercy to anyone. This is how good triumphs over evil. It's not petty. Evil is petty.
     
  18. 74x12

    74x12 Well-Known Member
    It's My Birthday!

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2017
    Messages:
    2,965
    Ratings:
    +728
    Religion:
    Itiswhatitis
    God helps people alright but if you can't see the obvious that people are beat up and destroyed on a spiritual level then what can I say?
     
  19. 74x12

    74x12 Well-Known Member
    It's My Birthday!

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2017
    Messages:
    2,965
    Ratings:
    +728
    Religion:
    Itiswhatitis
    Alright how can anyone show mercy to anyone else; if there is no one in need of mercy? You can't do anything good unless evil conditions exist.
     
  20. 74x12

    74x12 Well-Known Member
    It's My Birthday!

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2017
    Messages:
    2,965
    Ratings:
    +728
    Religion:
    Itiswhatitis
    Jesus cursed the fig tree because He was giving His disciples a spiritual lesson by doing so. The lesson is that God wants His disciples to be fruitful in season and out of season. That is to be bearing good fruit when it's convenient and when it's inconvenient. That's not to be confused the with the analogy I'm talking about here which is using fruit as symbolic of people who can be saved.

    There is also another analogy of the fig tree having to do with Israel.
     
Loading...