Same Sex Couple Adopting

[Shuddhasattva]

When we raise animal companions, is that not adoption?

 

[Jainarayan]

Truer words were rarely spoken.

 

[McBell]

When we raise animal companions, is that not adoption?

Equivocation

 

[Shuddhasattva]

While animal companions may be seen, for rational legal reasons as property, many "pet owners" will tell you that they don't feel a sense of ownership - rather, the companionship. Often of a parental nature.

 

[McBell]

While animal companions may be seen, for rational legal reasons as property, many "pet owners" will tell you that they don't feel a sense of ownership - rather, the companionship. Often of a parental nature.

presenting an exception to the rule as the rule does not really help your argument.

 

[Shuddhasattva]

Presenting a strawman like that does not really help you communicate with me further.

 

[MoonWater]

For a moment let's ignore the fact that studies have shown there to be no real difference or detriment to a child raised by same sex parents than to a child raised by opposite sex parents. Let's assume for a moment that it is true that a child would be "better off" being raised by an opposite sex couple than they would being raised by a same sex couple. Explain to me how that would translate to "we shouldn't let same sex couples adopt at all." Even if a child would be better off with opposite sex parents why should that stop us from allowing same sex couples to adopt a child? Surely being adopted by them would be better than remaining in the foster care system which, lets face it, doesn't have a good track record for taking care of children.

This is what I don't understand about this whole adoption issue. It's not like you can garuntee that the children that same sex couples would adopt if allowed WILL be adopted by opposite sex couples if same sex couples are denied that right. All it does is ensure that even more children have to grow up in our broken foster care system.

So please those who are against same sex couples adopting, tell me, do you honestly believe that our children would be better off being left in the foster care system than they would be being adopted by a same sex couple? Why should the belief that an opposite sex couple would be better for the child be a barrier to allowing that child to be adopted by a same sex couple when not allowing that would most likely mean that child would remain stuck in the system?

 

[Sunstone]

I've heard so many stories of children being abused and raped in foster homes that I wonder how anyone could think same sex parents would necessarily be worse for them.

 

[McBell]

Presenting a strawman like that does not really help you communicate with me further.

What strawman did I create?

Seems to me your argument is nothing more than one fallacy after another.

 

[Kerr]

Alright, I have to say it: same-sex couples adopting is a horrible idea. If we let them do that, next, they'll be voting for our politicians. Before you know it, gay men will be taking our women. Is that what you want? Huh? Your wife to be a gay man?

As Homer Simpson said to his wife after she did something fun with her gay friend:
"He didnt give you gay, did he? Did he?"

EDIT:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MGy9L_aQLEM[/youtube]
Zap! - YouTube

 

[idea]

Male and female parenting may or may not be more balanced, but we're talking about adoption here.

Fosterhomes are generally, with few exceptions, hellish. There are so many unwanted children who very much need loving homes, regardless of the sexes or 'balance' of the parents.

I have a few friends who have adopted kids, and they were actually on a very long waiting list. Most of the kids in foster homes are not waiting to be adopted, their parents refuse to put them up for adoption, but are not able to take care of them, so they end up in foster homes. (My m.i.l. has taken in 50 foster kids).

 

[Mr. Skittles]

A healthy man/female unit I believe can provide the balanced male/female perspective on the child. Women cannot offer that insight on what its like to "be a man," and the same is said of men and their daughters on being a woman.

I can attest as one who grew up in a single parent household (my dad was there but wasn't there) I had to learn the things that young boys who grew up with fathers did on my own. Issues such as puberty, issues with girls, all the common problems that young boys run into, I didn't divulge to my mother because, well, she was my mom.

I wouldn't say gay couples wouldn't be capable parents and I certaintly don't believe they would transfer their sexuality onto the child. However I believe in the current society the dynamics of a healthy balanced household should have a man and woman. Notice I used the word "healthy"

 

[InfidelRiot]

Same-sex couples tend to have a community of friends just like heterosexual couples. In many instances, when it comes time for certain talks or if the teenager has a question, friends of the family can be approached. Besides, if a parent is doing everything right, the child or teenager should feel no discomfort in approaching stated parent for advice. Growing up my father never told me anything about sex and I never went to him for advice because there was an estrangement between us long before I ever realized I was gay. I learned what I had to learn on my own. If I had had a father whom I was comfortable being around and if my father had been a different person than he was, perhaps we would have been closer. Parents are the individuals who create and mold the relationship with their children. Great parents raise their children to understand that they can be approached regarding anything.

 

[idea]

A healthy man/female unit I believe can provide the balanced male/female perspective on the child. Women cannot offer that insight on what its like to "be a man," and the same is said of men and their daughters on being a woman.

I can attest as one who grew up in a single parent household (my dad was there but wasn't there) I had to learn the things that young boys who grew up with fathers did on my own. Issues such as puberty, issues with girls, all the common problems that young boys run into, I didn't divulge to my mother because, well, she was my mom.

I wouldn't say gay couples wouldn't be capable parents and I certaintly don't believe they would transfer their sexuality onto the child. However I believe in the current society the dynamics of a healthy balanced household should have a man and woman. Notice I used the word "healthy"

I also think that we each have a mom and a dad - we are made from the union of those two parts, there's a little of our dad in us, and a little of our mom in us. This might sound strange, but a happy male/female husband/wife bond for me helps unite the two halves of our self.


Also, it is a social thing. Let's say you were raised with one parent who was _______ (insert cultural background - Chinese, or Christian, or whatever group you want). Growing up with that culture, when you run into another who is __________, there is an intimate understanding in place. Now everyone can't be raised from others representing all the different cultures, but everyone is either a male or a female - so having at least one male, and one female in the house covers everyone in the world (except eunuchs I guess, but they are pretty rare)

 

[InfidelRiot]

I should also add that families are not as perfectly loving as they were more than a hundred years ago. The family dynamic has changed a great deal. The one reason that psychology is considered a pseudo-science is the fact that family dynamics cannot always be applied equally to each family. There are always exceptions.

There are still some fe/male two parent healthy households where the children grow to adulthood just fine. Then there are plenty of fe/male two parent healthy households where the children grow up to continually have problems with the law, drugs, etc. There are fe/male two parent unhealthy households where the children grow up to be nothing like their abusive, druggie parents. Then there are fe/male two parent unhealthy households where the children do follow in their parent's footsteps.

There are children who grow up in single parent households and become productive citizens while other children of single parent households do not do so well in their adult lives.

If heterosexual parents are allowed the freedom to raise their children the way they see fit, then homosexual couples deserve the same chance.

 

[Mr. Skittles]

Same-sex couples tend to have a community of friends just like heterosexual couples. In many instances, when it comes time for certain talks or if the teenager has a question, friends of the family can be approached. Besides, if a parent is doing everything right, the child or teenager should feel no discomfort in approaching stated parent for advice. Growing up my father never told me anything about sex and I never went to him for advice because there was an estrangement between us long before I ever realized I was gay. I learned what I had to learn on my own. If I had had a father whom I was comfortable being around and if my father had been a different person than he was, perhaps we would have been closer. Parents are the individuals who create and mold the relationship with their children. Great parents raise their children to understand that they can be approached regarding anything.

Well the homosexual community is not created equal. Along with being gay, in some communities such as Asian, Hispanic, Arab, Black and the like, there are ethnic cultures especially those who subscribe to conservative christian beliefs still have a tendency to exile their own. Some gays don't have the fortune of having a network of having heterosexual friends who can assist with parenting. But even if that was the case it does not defeat the idea that in a healthy stable male/female household I certainly believe a child boy or girl can get a balanced perspective of what it is to be a man/woman.

I have a question.....

How can two married gay men teach their daughter what it means to be a woman?

 

[InfidelRiot]

How can two married gay men teach their daughter what it means to be a woman?

How can heterosexual parents explain to their gay teenager what it means to be gay? Sometimes parents cannot do everything. Parents are not perfect and they do not always have the answers. Sometimes, outside help is needed.

 

[Shuddhasattva]

How can two married gay men teach their daughter what it means to be a woman?

Life does that just fine all by itself. Howabout we teach people what it means to be human?

 

[Mr. Skittles]

I should also add that families are not as perfectly loving as they were more than a hundred years ago. The family dynamic has changed a great deal. The one reason that psychology is considered a pseudo-science is the fact that family dynamics cannot always be applied equally to each family. There are always exceptions.

There are still some fe/male two parent healthy households where the children grow to adulthood just fine. Then there are plenty of fe/male two parent healthy households where the children grow up to continually have problems with the law, drugs, etc. There are fe/male two parent unhealthy households where the children grow up to be nothing like their abusive, druggie parents. Then there are fe/male two parent unhealthy households where the children do follow in their parent's footsteps.

There are children who grow up in single parent households and become productive citizens while other children of single parent households do not do so well in their adult lives.

If heterosexual parents are allowed the freedom to raise their children the way they see fit, then homosexual couples deserve the same chance.

I agree there are children in healthy male/female households that grow up with social problems but one must look at certain factors:

1) What is the psychological profile of the child? (Is there a diagnosable mental disorder)
2) Who are the everyday influences upon the child (friends, acquaintences etc)
3) What are the current social demographics?

Kids the grow up troubled aren't spontaneously bad. There preconditions that contribute to a troubled behavior.

 

[Alceste]

Well the homosexual community is not created equal. Along with being gay, in some communities such as Asian, Hispanic, Arab, Black and the like, there are ethnic cultures especially those who subscribe to conservative christian beliefs still have a tendency to exile their own. Some gays don't have the fortune of having a network of having heterosexual friends who can assist with parenting. But even if that was the case it does not defeat the idea that in a healthy stable male/female household I certainly believe a child boy or girl can get a balanced perspective of what it is to be a man/woman.

I have a question.....

How can tiwo married gay men teach their daughter what it means to be a woman?

They can have their female friends over.

Your position is flawed in that it implies all heterosexual parents are good role models, and that a child must have a single heterosexual male and one heterosexual female role model, living as a pair bond, to understand sex and gender.

I think these are two completely baseless suppositions, if you hold them. I can't see how your argument can stand without them, so if you do hold these opinions, I'd like to see your evidence, please. If they are factually correct, that should be easy!