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Rev...unlike USA, all European countries are intrinsically socialist

Discussion in 'One-on-One Debates' started by Estro Felino, Dec 18, 2018.

  1. Estro Felino

    Estro Felino Believer in free will
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    Adam Smith's invisible hand....
    unfortunately divine providence doesn't exist...
     
  2. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest Libertarian Capitalist Atheist Bokononist
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    I don't believe in divine providence.
    Just human ambition & the need to survive.
     
  3. lewisnotmiller

    lewisnotmiller Grand Hat
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    Well...he was very social, at least.
     
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  4. Estro Felino

    Estro Felino Believer in free will
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    Profit maximization devalues the W (wages)

    [​IMG]
     
  5. wellwisher

    wellwisher Active Member

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    The USA is unique in that is a relatively new country composed of immigrants and descendants of immigrants from all over the world. There is no one common culture in the traditional sense of one ethic identity. Rather it is a culture that stems from a merger of many cultures; melting pot. It was a country that evolved based on open frontiers and constant growth, instead of a zero sum game. The pioneer could claim land and add value. The America dream assumes the ability to add value and not just redistribute.

    Europe is composed of many counties that are much older by comparison; 1000 year histories, with relatively homogeneous ethnic populations. They were settled much earlier; and have very few open frontiers. It more based on a zero sum game. The homogeneity and long common history makes it easier to feel like a large family; foundation for socialism, but it also has a family hierarchy due to the zero sum game; distinct class system; royalty and old money.

    Globalism was an attempt to turn the world into a jumbo USA. The dream was a melting pot of all cultures, via open borders, to form a new world order, without any history. Globalism in Europe turned out to be a dysfunctional family because it increased the number of unassimilated strangers operating within a zero sum game. The established cultures faced hardships; redistribution in the zero sum game, causing the foundation for socialism to become sandy.

    It may have worked out better if Globalism had been designed more like free enterprise into open frontiers; not a zero sum game. This would mean the powerful countries would need to migrate into the frontiers of the poor counties to add value and avoid a zero sum game. Poor immigrants migrating to rich countries, using a zero sun game, hurts the locals due to redistribution. Rich counties migrating to poor countries, will find new frontiers to exploit, and can add value for themselves and the locals. This is not zero sum.

    For example, England migrated to Hong Kong and India centuries ago to help make them first world countries in the global community. This was not the plan for the new globalism. The plan was backwards and doomed to failure. A return to nationalism was way for counties, with long similar history, to reform the family units needed for a pseudo-socialist foundation; balance operation in a zero sum game.

    The Better Globalism would involve copying the old USA, where pioneers migrate to new territories that are still open and ripe for developing; American dream. As they develop these lands, other immigrants will move it until they call reach a zero sum game; fully developed. The exploited countries will evolve until, they can assume their place in the first world.
     
  6. Estro Felino

    Estro Felino Believer in free will
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    This is partly true. Let's not forget that by the times of the Pilgrim Fathers, US was a pretty empty land...whereas England or Northern France were densely populated areas.

    Or Rome...2000 years ago, reached 1 million inhabitants...now it has almost 3 million ....so the change is not that significant.
    NYC was empty in 1620 but now has 8 million inhab.

    Europe has always been populated by the same people.
    We are nations...we are not lands of immigrants
     
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