Religious/spiritual books written in our modern times.

[paarsurrey]

Well, who made the commentary? Were they enlightened so the would understand the true meaning of the original teaching?
Do they need analyse a text that hold the truth? And the explenation is it a personal understanding or the understanding of the teacher/founder of the spiritual path?

I agree with one. The original book of the founder must be read first, without it the commentaries could be misleading, I understand. Right, please?
Regards

 

[InvestigateTruth]

When we look at religioues or spiritual bookes there is a lot to choose from in bookstores today.

But a question that comes to mind is. Why do people buy this modern books instead of reading the original teaching from the religions they follow? The original teachings contain all there is to gain wisdom so to reach the goal in any religion. So why do so many to buy books written by ordenary people of today?

There are original spiritual teaching of today too, like Falun Gong but Jone of the practitioners would try to make their own books from their understanding of the teaching in Zhuan Falun. That is Very clear and would be underminding our teacher.

I agree, doesnt seem a logical approach. I propose, the reason could be because the original texts are not exactly what they like them to be, or the original Texts are not saying what they want them to say, but the modern ones says what they like it to say, through interpretations or addition, removing from the texts.

 

[Vee]

When we look at religioues or spiritual bookes there is a lot to choose from in bookstores today.

But a question that comes to mind is. Why do people buy this modern books instead of reading the original teaching from the religions they follow? The original teachings contain all there is to gain wisdom so to reach the goal in any religion. So why do so many to buy books written by ordenary people of today?

There are original spiritual teaching of today too, like Falun Gong but Jone of the practitioners would try to make their own books from their understanding of the teaching in Zhuan Falun. That is Very clear and would be underminding our teacher.

I guess a lot of people think the older books might be outdated, plus they are not easy to understand. With the Bible for example, if you don't know the context you won't understand the message, or you'll misunderstand what it means, but to understand the context you need to invest a lot of time and energy studying. In my opinion nothing replaces the original, but I understand the temptation to take shortcuts.

 

[Spirit of Light]

I guess a lot of people think the older books might be outdated, plus they are not easy to understand. With the Bible for example, if you don't know the context you won't understand the message, or you'll misunderstand what it means, but to understand the context you need to invest a lot of time and energy studying. In my opinion nothing replaces the original, but I understand the temptation to take shortcuts.

What ypu just described is the Cultivation of the teaching to study it until you become a part of the teaching

 

[osgart]

People want fast food in a neat little package so they buy into the marketing strategy and get the spiritual books with the most attractive sell.

 

[sayak83]

I did not assume
How can someone who are on a lower level of wisdom then the original teacher believe they understand the teaching same ør better, so they can add something of value to the teaching?

In Falun Gong as a practitioners we can not and will not even change or removes one single words to the teaching, because it has been made the original way on purpose to make it possible for us to reach consumation. If we change or add our own interpretation to it, it would be to damage the teaching, and our own chance to gain wisdom.

I do not understand why this is not in other paths too.

The rishis of the Upanisads were neither the first, nor the last in gaining insight and realization of the ultimate reality of Brahman. In every generation there will be several who acheive the same... and their writing are equally worthy of study.

 

[Spirit of Light]

The rishis of the Upanisads were neither the first, nor the last in gaining insight and realization of the ultimate reality of Brahman. In every generation there will be several who acheive the same... and their writing are equally worthy of study.

I am not going to argue with you on it, but i do understand it differently then you

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

Well, who made the commentary? Were they enlightened so the would understand the true meaning of the original teaching?
Do they need analyse a text that hold the truth? And the explenation is it a personal understanding or the understanding of the teacher/founder of the spiritual path?

It think this kind of question and insistence that the founders or the "originals" were so much better equipped to provide wisdom is a kind of trap that a lot of people easily fall into.

Look at it this way - in any given generation of individuals, there seems to always be a large portion of people who look at the surrounding, modern human populations with contempt - because they can literally witness, in real time, their fellow humans falling down, doing wrong, and generally just being idiots. You don't get to see your forebears/ancestors doing this. And so, generally, this tends to have people viewing the peoples of generations past in a better light - thinking they were perhaps more virtuous, didn't do as much wrong, weren't as stupid. But, unfortunately they very likely were. There were still idiots, there was still a lot of failing going on, and it wasn't much different than today except perhaps that our daily issues and concerns weren't as compounded as they are in modern times.

And I truly believe that it is the abstract, unknowable nature of the "spiritual" that allows it to continue to always seem "better" coming from times past - but that is really all it has going for it - it's inability to be known for sure. All other actual, practical disciplines that I can think of heavily rely on updates to knowledge - the experience of those people before us honing, shaping, and indeed changing the behaviors of those practicing in those disciplines today. I mean... just imagine if those engaged in the discipline of medicine REFUSED to update their core of knowledge, and it had stood the same for 2,000 or 3,000 years. People would be DYING all over the place - just as badly as they did those thousands of years ago, and of things that are relatively simple to cure or resolve today. The base of knowledge of medicine is ALWAYS CHANGING. And this is a GOOD thing. That religion doesn't or rarely changes is a hallmark of its complete lack of practicality. It has almost no ties to reality - and so there isn't anything to compare it to in order to definitively state that it is "wrong" or that it needs to be updated because it is currently failing. Oh... and when someone DOES point to something that seems entirely wrong or outdated, there are nothing more than excuses presented to try and cover for that deficiency, or no one is actively practicing that outdated/foolish tenet of the faith anymore anyway.

 

[Spirit of Light]

It think this kind of question and insistence that the founders or the "originals" were so much better equipped to provide wisdom is a kind of trap that a lot of people easily fall into.

Look at it this way - in any given generation of individuals, there seems to always be a large portion of people who look at the surrounding, modern human populations with contempt - because they can literally witness, in real time, their fellow humans falling down, doing wrong, and generally just being idiots. You don't get to see your forebears/ancestors doing this. And so, generally, this tends to have people viewing the peoples of generations past in a better light - thinking they were perhaps more virtuous, didn't do as much wrong, weren't as stupid. But, unfortunately they very likely were. There were still idiots, there was still a lot of failing going on, and it wasn't much different than today except perhaps that our daily issues and concerns weren't as compounded as they are in modern times.

And I truly believe that it is the abstract, unknowable nature of the "spiritual" that allows it to continue to always seem "better" coming from times past - but that is really all it has going for it - it's inability to be known for sure. All other actual, practical disciplines that I can think of heavily rely on updates to knowledge - the experience of those people before us honing, shaping, and indeed changing the behaviors of those practicing in those disciplines today. I mean... just imagine if those engaged in the discipline of medicine REFUSED to update their core of knowledge, and it had stood the same for 2,000 or 3,000 years. People would be DYING all over the place - just as badly as they did those thousands of years ago, and of things that are relatively simple to cure or resolve today. The base of knowledge of medicine is ALWAYS CHANGING. And this is a GOOD thing. That religion doesn't or rarely changes is a hallmark of its complete lack of practicality. It has almost no ties to reality - and so there isn't anything to compare it to in order to definitively state that it is "wrong" or that it needs to be updated because it is currently failing. Oh... and when someone DOES point to something that seems entirely wrong or outdated, there are nothing more than excuses presented to try and cover for that deficiency, or no one is actively practicing that outdated/foolish tenet of the faith anymore anyway.

Maybe you forgetting that spiritual lifestyle and teaching is very much different then mundane life and science. They can not be understood same way.

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

Maybe you forgetting that spiritual lifestyle and teaching is very much different then mundane life and science. They can not be understood same way.

So the "spiritual" body of our knowledge gets a free pass from being updated or changing with the times? While nearly everything else is subject to such change and literally benefits immensely from it. To my mind this is not a check in the column of "positive things about spirituality." Not in the slightest. It doesn't need to be "understood the same way" as science or "mundane life" (whatever this is) - all I am calling into question is whether or not it could benefit from change. But I do understand that the main problem with change is that it takes admitting that you were wrong a few moments ago, before the change. And I understand that the one thing that religions simply cannot do is admit that they were wrong. Their footing is on shaky enough ground as it is without admitting that they may have fudged the details. I believe that the religious know this, and so they protect as much ground as they can, call it "sacred," and simply hope that no one treads too heavily.

 

[Spirit of Light]

So the "spiritual" body of our knowledge gets a free pass from being updated or changing with the times? While nearly everything else is subject to such change and literally benefits immensely from it. To my mind this is not a check in the column of "positive things about spirituality." Not in the slightest. It doesn't need to be "understood the same way" as science or "mundane life" (whatever this is) - all I am calling into question is whether or not it could benefit from change. But I do understand that the main problem with change is that it takes admitting that you were wrong a few moments ago, before the change. And I understand that the one thing that religions simply cannot do is admit that they were wrong. Their footing is on shaky enough ground as it is without admitting that they may have fudged the details. I believe that the religious know this, and so they protect as much ground as they can, call it "sacred," and simply hope that no one treads too heavily.

The teaching does not change, we who Cultivate a spiritual do the change from within.

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

The teaching does not change, we who Cultivate a spiritual do the change from within.

Which only really means that you conform to something that is old and has not changed (and in many cases refuses to change) with the times. And so, this can often result in you eschewing or ignoring some of the other, more practical knowledge/information that our forebears have discovered and investigated for us. Things that actually produce real, tangible results in the real world that we all inhabit, and that can truly make the world a better place for many, without the requirement that they subscribe to any particular brand of spirituality.

In my experience, the things that are most important in this world are those things that are seen to be important to every single human being - regardless their affiliations or beliefs. Things as fundamental as water, and as complex or abstracted as electricity and how to harness/use it to your advantage. Religion doesn't have a hold on any of these fundamentals. All it can offer is the potential for something good if you can pair it with the right emotional state and lifestyle demeanor - and even then, it is left to the individual to determine whether or not it is successful. Can you imagine if people within other disciplines faced the same rate and caliber of success? Like electricians having to rely on methods that "sometimes work," or they had to meditate and pray over their wires in the hopes that it would produce some positive result or change in their work materials? You say these things can't be compared - and I say they can. Who is correct? I know I will continue to compare them... and religion will continue to come up entirely lacking. For me, you see. You can think as you will. I am merely relating things as I see them, and as I have experienced them.

 

[Spirit of Light]

Which only really means that you conform to something that is old and has not changed (and in many cases refuses to change) with the times. And so, this can often result in you eschewing or ignoring some of the other, more practical knowledge/information that our forebears have discovered and investigated for us. Things that actually produce real, tangible results in the real world that we all inhabit, and that can truly make the world a better place for many, without the requirement that they subscribe to any particular brand of spirituality.

In my experience, the things that are most important in this world are those things that are seen to be important to every single human being - regardless their affiliations or beliefs. Things as fundamental as water, and as complex or abstracted as electricity and how to harness/use it to your advantage. Religion doesn't have a hold on any of these fundamentals. All it can offer is the potential for something good if you can pair it with the right emotional state and lifestyle demeanor - and even then, it is left to the individual to determine whether or not it is successful. Can you imagine if people within other disciplines faced the same rate and caliber of success? Like electricians having to rely on methods that "sometimes work," or they had to meditate and pray over their wires in the hopes that it would produce some positive result or change in their work materials? You say these things can't be compared - and I say they can. Who is correct? I know I will continue to compare them... and religion will continue to come up entirely lacking. For me, you see. You can think as you will. I am merely relating things as I see them, and as I have experienced them.

Religion/spiritual Cultivation is not about this world it's about how to realize enlightenment and nothing else
We see things from two different views of life i am not here to say science is right or wrong , Cultivation of mind and body is the Main reason i am living my life here now.

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

Religion/spiritual Cultivation is not about this world

And what other world is there that you know of? Can you demonstrate the existence of this world to me, or must I merely assume that it exists?

it's about how to realize enlightenment and nothing else

Here again, can you be sure that "enlightenment" exists? Doesn't it merely present itself in a person as a tendency to say things that make them sound like they know what they are talking about? Items of speech or writing that make one pause to think, and yet cannot be used for much else? And yes I readily admit that they can get people thinking in different ways, contemplating things, and perhaps even clearing up misconceptions they had about certain things - but these are in no way unique to religious lines of thought. So they are good for something for certain people. But again - I view the utility of a thing as more than just the fact that it has some hits among the misses. I am looking for consistency in the hits. The ability to use and reuse, with very little rate of failure. Some disciplines are not like this (stock market speculation and trading for example) - but those things are known to come with an amount of risk - a failure rate that is unpredictable. And that is what I believe religion ultimately poses to the world. A discipline of thought that is not without risk.

We see things from two different views of life i am not here to say science is right or wrong , Cultivation of mind and body is the Main reason i am living my life here now.

And I don't claim that "Science" is the end-all-beat-all. There are plenty of discoveries of science that may have best been left undiscovered. What I do like is the way it attempts to view the world. And that being that the world is the way it is, and discovery is all about finding out how to describe and utilize the world the way it is. Not the way you might personally imagine it to be.

 

[Spirit of Light]

And what other world is there that you know of? Can you demonstrate the existence of this world to me, or must I merely assume that it exists?
Here again, can you be sure that "enlightenment" exists? Doesn't it merely present itself in a person as a tendency to say things that make them sound like they know what they are talking about? Items of speech or writing that make one pause to think, and yet cannot be used for much else? And yes I readily admit that they can get people thinking in different ways, contemplating things, and perhaps even clearing up misconceptions they had about certain things - but these are in no way unique to religious lines of thought. So they are good for something for certain people. But again - I view the utility of a thing as more than just the fact that it has some hits among the misses. I am looking for consistency in the hits. The ability to use and reuse, with very little rate of failure. Some disciplines are not like this (stock market speculation and trading for example) - but those things are known to come with an amount of risk - a failure rate that is unpredictable. And that is what I believe religion ultimately poses to the world. A discipline of thought that is not without risk.

And I don't claim that "Science" is the end-all-beat-all. There are plenty of discoveries of science that may have best been left undiscovered. What I do like is the way it attempts to view the world. And that being that the world is the way it is, and discovery is all about finding out how to describe and utilize the world the way it is. Not the way you might personally imagine it to be.

To get answer To your questions you must cultivate a spiritual path your self
You have all the answers within you, all you need is the key to unlock the wisdom needed to understand the truth in spiritual practicing

No matter how much i tell you about my experiences and my journey, you will not believe it, because there is no physical evidence or answers That you looking for in spiritual practicing, all happens within your self.
The spiritual words i speak of can only be seen when you cultivate your mind and body, you can not see the spirit world with your physical eyes

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

To get answer To your questions you must cultivate a spiritual path your self
You have all the answers within you, all you need is the key to unlock the wisdom needed to understand the truth in spiritual practicing

No matter how much i tell you about my experiences and my journey, you will not believe it, because there is no physical evidence or answers That you looking for in spiritual practicing, all happens within your self.
The spiritual words i speak of can only be seen when you cultivate your mind and body, you can not see the spirit world with your physical eyes

And these are precisely the sorts of unfortunate answers I would have expected. If any teacher throughout my school career, in a subject without any prior prep or establishment of curriculum, were to say that the answers to a test they put in front of me were simply "within me," I would have expected nothing less than a passing grade just for taking the test - because that is NOTHING to go on. It's a non-answer. It is meant to sound profound, but it is little more than a ploy to satisfy curiosity into matters for which one does not wish to admit that there ARE NO SATISFYING ANSWERS.

 

[Spirit of Light]

And these are precisely the sorts of answers I would have expected. If any teacher throughout my school career had told me that the answers to the test they had given me were "within me" I would have expected nothing less than a passing grade just for taking the test - because that is NOTHING to go on. It's a non-answer. It is meant to sound profound, but it is little more than a ploy to satisfy curiosity into matters for which one does not wish to admit that there ARE NO ANSWERS.

Your answer is your opinion, and i respect that. I have no problem with your questions.
But i can not be responsabile for you not understanding the spiritual practice

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

Your answer is your opinion, and i respect that. I have no problem with your questions.
But i can not be responsabile for you not understanding the spiritual practice

And would never presume to hold you responsible. You believe you hold yourself to some higher standard of understanding, and so do I. It may be that neither of us is right, and I am fine with that. None of this is all that important anyway. I think I am going to go get myself a glass of water now.

 

[Spirit of Light]

And would never presume to hold you responsible. You believe you hold yourself to some higher standard of understanding, and so do I. It may be that neither of us is right, and I am fine with that. None of this is all that important anyway. I think I am going to go get myself a glass of water now.

True i do not hold all the answers

 

[PearlSeeker]

A fossilized tradition is a dead tradition.