Religious People are Not Stupid

[Truly Enlightened]

This is why it's difficult for us to change. But not impossible.
I'm sorry, but then so does this 'point' you're making, doesn't it? So does this whole conversation. So does everything ... "in the end". But we are not there, now. We are HERE, now. And we CAN still change. We CAN still matter. We CAN become gloriously significant to ourselves and to others, even if only for the present.
No evidence does not become evidence of 'no'. Death is a mystery. It is an 'unknowable unknown'. Honesty would ask us to respect this mystery, not pretend that we have solved it when we have not.

Thank you. There is a big gap between difficult and impossible to change. Quitting cigarette smoking is certainly difficult, but creating a rabbit from thought is impossible. It is very difficult to overcome over 50% of our predetermined genetic makeup. Unfortunately, it is just the luck of the draw. But, you are correct, it is not impossible.

The point I was making, was at the end of the day(death), our beliefs, and everything that we do that defines us, becomes irrelevant. I also stated that how you think and behave is mostly determined by your genetic and behavioural makeup. The rest is determined by the experiences, environment, family, and society. Just the simple act of breathing should have "gloriously significant to ourselves". How we are define in life rest mostly with how others perceive us, and interact with us(association). Many objective experiments have clearly demonstrated this phenomena. We either are, or will become how others see us. Cognitive dissonance and conformity, are very powerful tools that can manipulate behavior. But again, not everyone.

Death is not a mystery, it is the cessation of life. We see it everyday in our lives. It is what comes after death that is the unknown. There may in fact be a place where the dead can live again, but it cannot be in our 4 dimensional reality. That would violate many of the natural laws of nature.Therefore Occam's razor applies. If believing that the scientifically impossible is possible, gives you comfort and hope, then good on you. I simple prefer my security blanket to be made of knowledge, and not just belief. I don't know anyone who claims to have solved the "mystery of death", except maybe Houdini. But of course he's dead, so we will never know.

 

[Truly Enlightened]

72' Norton Commando. They vibrated........ and vibrated..... and shook.... and so Norton mounted the engine on rubber bearers. And so the rider didn't notice the shaking. They still shook themselves crazy, but nobody knew it with those bearers. The E-Type roadsters are the most valuable as I remember.
I have a Fiat Panda, about 37bhp. My wife has a Fiat Panda eleganza 60bhp automatic. Hers has got air-con.... I just open the windows. I have a cheap mountain bike and a little folder, which I ride both all over the place...... keeps me fit.


OK, but Science likes confirmation and testominials of a kind.


But you've plumped a whole lot of stuff together there, not connected, really. I believe that there was a Jesus (or Yeshua BarYosef) who supported the Baptist in a mission against Temple and priesthood corruption. Yeah, for sure. I just don't believe in the Christianity that it got turned into later.
And most people that I know have superstitions of one kind or another......

I must finish this later on......

Thank you. My baby only shakes when I'm not on top. When I am, she just purrs. I'm afraid I'm into power, class, or beauty. With all due respects, none of which apply to the Panda. The Jag was relatively expensive, but I am going to take it with me in the end.

I also believe that a historical Jesus may have existed, based on the findings of non-biblical and biblical scholars. According to their findings, this historical Jesus may have had two fathers who were Jewish Priests. Some claim he was the Great-Grandson of Cleopatra. Some claim that he was a carpenter or a priest. Did Jesus Exist? Searching for Evidence Beyond the Bible - Biblical Archaeology Society As I've said, it is more than possible that a historical Jesus did exist. My problem is this the same Jesus, that is the son of a God? How can Jesus be fully Divine, and fully human? If this were true, then all Demigods exists as well. This opens the door that all types of Gods and Deities exist as well. Either they all exist, or none exist. By definition, only one can exist.

Testimonials are subjective experiences, that only the subject experiences. As long as the experience does not violate any natural laws, science can investigate and confirm. Unfortunately most experience do violate natural laws, and falls outside of science.

Thanks again

 

[Truly Enlightened]

How did you experience your own mortality? The death(s) of loved one(s)?
I don't find much happiness in all the things that I know to be true. Sadly, most sadly, I see humanity as a less than beneficial species for this planet........ I can't think of a species which is wicked, or evil as some might say; all creatures just do what they do. I don't think that a bacteria evolving to survive an antibiotic, thus killing thousands or millions of other creatures is evil..... it just seeks to survive. Or a hobby stooping to snatch a dragon fly, etc..... but some humans, only some of the ones with intellect, now they can be wicked/evil whichever word you prefer. Obviously babies, mentally and IQ disabled are excluded. Human badness produced various needs within society which in turn gave me a livelihood and so now in retirement I just accept the state of the world as it is and enjoy it all regardless. But my Deist beliefs don't offer much reassurance to any who seek it...... My Deity is as unaware of us as I am from one of the hairs on the back of my little right finger. So your ideas don't really fit too closely into my beliefs.


Fair enough...... I just hope that a high % of folks think it was all worthwhile. Trouble is, wherever I look around I do see quite a lot of miserable unhappy dissatisfied folks at every level of wealth, intellect and security. They all want(ed) more of everything. Me? I need nothing more than we have.

But I do enjoy listening to what most people believe in. There's only one religion that I despise, a very small one at that, and even then its founder was a wonderful person; his religion just got badly distorted.

Does riding that Norton make you smile? The bloody thing shaking itself to pieces must worry you!
Flog it and buy a Goldie!

Thanks again. Why do you think that we have no conception of time past? Why does the last 68 years seem like a few days of a series of events? My mortality will be the same as I have experienced in 1088 AD and the beginning of the Universe. NOTHINGNESS. Mortality is non-existence. I've had 13+ Billions of years of non-existence. Death is non-existence, and as far as I know, it is painless. We enter the world unaware, become aware, and in the end leave unaware. You are an entity of matter and energy, stealing energy to maintain a stable metabolism. It doesn't care about the life you've led, your intellectual or economic status, your position of power, or the beliefs you have. It only cares about restoring order(entropy) to the Universe. The Graveyard is truly an equal opportunity employer. My fear is seeing my loved ones, and close friends and colleagues go before me. Or watch them suffer with pain and fear. These are my greatest fears.

You seem to have obvious issues with the human condition. What makes us human, and not behave like any other animal? No other animal can consciously delays immediate gratification for some gratification in the future. No other animal can synthesize two opposing ideas. If they hear a noise they either run or stand, they don't think to decide. That is it. The rest of our human features are shared in various degrees, with all other creatures on the planet. So, extremes at each end of the behavioral spectrum is to be expected. Humans are just a higher evolved animal, but an animal nonetheless. Wickedness and badness are far too ambiguous to have any real meaning. But, I know what you mean. If you are seeing these anti-social behavior now, what do you think it will be like in 2060? When the competition for resources will be the driving force? I think when I look at past episodes of "Charm" that I have lived during the best era. It can only get worst from here. The separation between rich and poor is becoming clearly established.

Thanks for listening.

 

[oldbadger]

I think I'd be best suited to the Black Shadow.

Great big heavy things.
The slowest of the Vincents.
All vincents were built on the same production line and then timetested on a track. the standard performers were black-shadow branded, the faster ones were Rapide branded. I think the fastest may have been HRD branded.
Maybe somebody has a clearer memory about them.....

 

[Audie]

Great big heavy things.
The slowest of the Vincents.
All vincents were built on the same production line and then timetested on a track. the standard performers were black-shadow branded, the faster ones were Rapide branded. I think the fastest may have been HRD branded.
Maybe somebody has a clearer memory about them.....

All i know is they are mentioned in
"Fear and Loathing in Los Vegas".

Most likely too much bike for a 45 kilo
person.

 

[oldbadger]

Thank you. My baby only shakes when I'm not on top. When I am, she just purrs. I'm afraid I'm into power, class, or beauty. With all due respects, none of which apply to the Panda. The Jag was relatively expensive, but I am going to take it with me in the end.

Yes......... when on the stand you'll notice that characteristic best, maybe. The rubber bearers did kind of anesthetize the effects of the vibrations when being ridden. Oh...... I got this pic of an much more elderly bloke, possibly in pain, roaring towards some great cliff like our Beach Head, with a huge grin ....... If I'm right I hope that will be a long time from now.
Pandas. Power?...... ummm. Class?........ Hmmmmm. Beauty? ........ Nope. They're just a box on wheels which takes us wherever we want to go. For next to nothing. Mine is layed up since 2016 and I keep my folder bike, trailer and other junk in it..... it waits for the day that my wife's automatic gear-box tears itself to pieces, as it will do one day. We'll never buy another IC car now.

{QUOTE]I also believe that a historical Jesus may have existed, based on the findings of non-biblical and biblical scholars. According to their findings, this historical Jesus may have had two fathers who were Jewish Priests. Some claim he was the Great-Grandson of Cleopatra. Some claim that he was a carpenter or a priest. Did Jesus Exist? Searching for Evidence Beyond the Bible - Biblical Archaeology Society As I've said, it is more than possible that a historical Jesus did exist. My problem is this the same Jesus, that is the son of a God? How can Jesus be fully Divine, and fully human? If this were true, then all Demigods exists as well. This opens the door that all types of Gods and Deities exist as well. Either they all exist, or none exist. By definition, only one can exist.[/QUOTE]
An historical Jesus......... Yes. I've studied HJ for several years now.
Son of God? Deity? Oh dear...... like you I can't see how so many countless billions of folks have believed in that over two millennia.

Testimonials are subjective experiences, that only the subject experiences. As long as the experience does not violate any natural laws, science can investigate and confirm. Unfortunately most experience do violate natural laws, and falls outside of science.

Thanks again

Of course. Miracles and supernatural experiences are only of value to witnesses. But you'd be surprised at how many people would like to share these, and how many would want to hear about them.... why not?

Some very very strange 'things' have been happening to me this last year, way beyond average, and I just don't know why ........ I was talking about it only last evening with my wife. I will wish for something, or seek something, and it just happens. The last occasion was yesterday morning ........ and that would be the eight such strange happening in two months.
Maybe I should buy a lottery ticket? I don't buy lottery tickets normally because I think the idea of masses of unreasonably poor people paying in to something so that one of them can become unreasonably rich is just.... odd. And I don't need the win.......... but my wife would love to found a dog rescue centre I expect..... keep her going to the end, that would.

 

[oldbadger]

Thanks again. Why do you think that we have no conception of time past? Why does the last 68 years seem like a few days of a series of events?

Not for me...... My 70 years is split up into complete lifetimes stretching back to my infancy. I met my wife in 1991 and since then we have lived several chapters all quite different to each other........ we call them lifetimes.

But back in the day, when I first got my driving licence (1966) and saw that it would last until 2018 I knew that I'd never see the year when it would expire. So much for what I knew back then.

My mortality will be the same as I have experienced in 1088 AD and the beginning of the Universe. NOTHINGNESS. Mortality is non-existence. I've had 13+ Billions of years of non-existence. Death is non-existence, and as far as I know, it is painless. We enter the world unaware, become aware, and in the end leave unaware. You are an entity of matter and energy, stealing energy to maintain a stable metabolism. It doesn't care about the life you've led, your intellectual or economic status, your position of power, or the beliefs you have. It only cares about restoring order(entropy) to the Universe. The Graveyard is truly an equal opportunity employer.

You remind me of my favourite book..... the Rubaiyat...
Khayyam's main theme is .......... have another drink! Enjoy the Now.
But then, in the next line he might write:-
There was a door to which I found no key,
There was a Veil which past I could not see.

He did leave the possibilities open, just a little. I think you might have shut yours tight shut.

My fear is seeing my loved ones, and close friends and colleagues go before me. Or watch them suffer with pain and fear. These are my greatest fears.

OK. I've seen so many go before me .......... it's the only suit I own now....... that black one.
I watched my wife in pain and fear in 2014, blood clots in her heart and other organs....... her body wracked with massive adrenalin discharges (Phaeo Chromo-Cytoma), and I thank goodness that I was not gone before her....... she just wanted to know that her little daxies, cats and ducks were all safe in her home, and of course I could that for her and still visit her each afternoon at Kings College to be with her and tell her that they were all fine but clearly missing her.
Try and hang around to be with your loved ones in their need.......... you can visit your cliff edge some other time...
The Pheo team saved my wife. I really could not see the point of going on without her.

You seem to have obvious issues with the human condition.

True.

What makes us human, and not behave like any other animal? No other animal can consciously delays immediate gratification for some gratification in the future. No other animal can synthesize two opposing ideas. If they hear a noise they either run or stand, they don't think to decide. That is it.

Ok....... but so what? The other animals are doing exactly what you might advise humanity to do...... Live in the Now. And they didn't mess up the World with dirt. Much smarter than us in some ways, I guess.

The rest of our human features are shared in various degrees, with all other creatures on the planet. So, extremes at each end of the behavioral spectrum is to be expected. Humans are just a higher evolved animal, but an animal nonetheless. Wickedness and badness are far too ambiguous to have any real meaning. But, I know what you mean.

Sure........ a sparrow hawk whizzing along its well flown course through a thick wood and snatching a sparrow off a branch is just living..... the sparrow snatched enough lifeforms before. But if a person could bust into your safe-place, steal your E-Type and take it for a crazy blistering drive before torching it to destroy evidence, and walk away without another thought........ you'd be thinking in terms of badness.

you are seeing these anti-social behavior now, what do you think it will be like in 2060? When the competition for resources will be the driving force? I think when I look at past episodes of "Charm" that I have lived during the best era. It can only get worst from here. The separation between rich and poor is becoming clearly established.

It will be bad. But my Dad was in the Burma retreat, and some of his friends were prisoners of the Japanese for years. My Grandads experienced the whole of the 1914-18 conflicts, somehow surviving.....
Young Americans were sent to Vietnam where they no doubt discovered what hell-on-earth can be.
Each era just seems to have its own Armageddons. Our grandchildren and great grandchildren, some them will get through, somehow...... Khayyam wrote that we send our children, as arrows, into the future, a place where we cannot go ourselves, and so I guess that we should leave them to make their own paths.

Humanity never reacts until the last moments, and then mumbles something about 'lessons learned for the future'. We never learn.

Thanks for listening.

And thank you. Very much.

 

[oldbadger]

All i know is they are mentioned in
"Fear and Loathing in Los Vegas".

Most likely too much bike for a 45 kilo
person.

Too much for most folks.......
A modern machine of half size and weight can produce much more power. And a Vincent is worth a whole house now.
I like seeing these wonderful machines, and hearing them, but I will leave their owners to lavish them with oil, grease and money.

 

[PureX]

Thank you. There is a big gap between difficult and impossible to change. Quitting cigarette smoking is certainly difficult, but creating a rabbit from thought is impossible.

Only when we are willing to clearly define the terms. It's in the vagueness of the terms we throw around that we hide our ignorance and bias from ourselves and each other. What, exactly, does it mean to "create" something? What exactly does it mean to say that something is "impossible"? What exactly are you labeling a "rabbit"? And where exactly does the idea of a rabbit diverge from the thing you are labeling? And then finally, how do you justify everyone else adhering to your particular clarifications?

It is very difficult to overcome over 50% of our predetermined genetic makeup.

(50%) is logically exactly no more or less difficult to overcome than to NOT overcome. And when you added the "over" to the 50%, upon what exactly did you base that addition? See what I mean about how clarity can help us to ferret out and eliminate bias?

The point I was making, was at the end of the day(death), our beliefs, and everything that we do that defines us, becomes irrelevant.

As, then, does your point. So what of it?

I also stated that how you think and behave is mostly determined by your genetic and behavioural makeup. The rest is determined by the experiences, environment, family, and society. Just the simple act of breathing should have "gloriously significant to ourselves". How we are define in life rest mostly with how others perceive us, and interact with us(association). Many objective experiments have clearly demonstrated this phenomena. We either are, or will become how others see us. Cognitive dissonance and conformity, are very powerful tools that can manipulate behavior. But again, not everyone.

It's far deeper than that. It's not just about "how we are perceived", it's about what we are being defined by how we relate to everything around us; not just perceptually, but actually.

Ultimately existence is just phenomena. Undifferentiated, interactive phenomena. The differentiation that we perceive and that we all assume to be "real" are just cognitive ideation based on relative effect. And I think it's important that we humans understand this, and recognize it, lest we continue to fall blindly for our own biased delusions about what is real and what is not. These delusions are an inevitable part of the human condition, but we don't have to succumb to them, entirely. And we should not do so. Because it's in the possibilities that are generated by our self-aware 'unknowing' that we truly learn and advance as a cognitive phenomena.

Death is not a mystery, it is the cessation of life. We see it everyday in our lives. It is what comes after death that is the unknown.

This is just a weak semantic point. The term "death" can also designate the mystery state beyond that which we recognize and think we understand as the immediate event.

There may in fact be a place where the dead can live again, but it cannot be in our 4 dimensional reality. That would violate many of the natural laws of nature.

To know this, we would have to know the origin and limitations of all "natural laws", and we do not. Just because we think we have discovered a few "natural laws and limitations" does not mean that there are no others that could transcend or supersede those we are aware of.

And to presume so is just hubris on our part.

 

[Truly Enlightened]

Only when we are willing to clearly define the terms. It's in the vagueness of the terms we throw around that we hide our ignorance and bias from ourselves and each other. What, exactly, does it mean to "create" something? What exactly does it mean to say that something is "impossible"? What exactly are you labeling a "rabbit"? And where exactly does the idea of a rabbit diverge from the thing you are labeling? And then finally, how do you justify everyone else adhering to your particular clarifications?
(50%) is logically exactly no more or less difficult to overcome than to NOT overcome. And when you added the "over" to the 50%, upon what exactly did you base that addition? See what I mean about how clarity can help us to ferret out and eliminate bias?
As, then, does your point. So what of it?
It's far deeper than that. It's not just about "how we are perceived", it's about what we are being defined by how we relate to everything around us; not just perceptually, but actually.

Ultimately existence is just phenomena. Undifferentiated, interactive phenomena. The differentiation that we perceive and that we all assume to be "real" are just cognitive ideation based on relative effect. And I think it's important that we humans understand this, and recognize it, lest we continue to fall blindly for our own biased delusions about what is real and what is not. These delusions are an inevitable part of the human condition, but we don't have to succumb to them, entirely. And we should not do so. Because it's in the possibilities that are generated by our self-aware 'unknowing' that we truly learn and advance as a cognitive phenomena.
This is just a weak semantic point. The term "death" can also designate the mystery state beyond that which we recognize and think we understand as the immediate event.
To know this, we would have to know the origin and limitations of all "natural laws", and we do not. Just because we think we have discovered a few "natural laws and limitations" does not mean that there are no others that could transcend or supersede those we are aware of.

And to presume so is just hubris on our part.

Thank you, Exactly what is vague or not clearly defined for you? I simply illustrated the difference between difficult and impossible, with clear examples. Unless you disagree that the majority of people find it difficult to quit smoking, or that it is impossible to make a rabbit appear by merely thinking it, I don't see a problem with clearity. What exactly did you think I meant by difficult and impossible? Was I vague because I didn't say slightly difficult, or nearly impossible? Even after giving you two examples? The rabbit was never the central issue, I could have used an apple or anything else, to illustrate that no one can create(cause to exist) anything by using only their thoughts. Is this not clear or self-evident? How would you suggest that I clarify something that is cleary intuitive and self-evident? I do not expect others to blindly adhere or accept anything that I say. I expect them to do their own research, just like I do. Maybe I can learn something from them. That is how information is exchanged and knowledge is learned. Our senses convey sensory information about our world. The brain interprets and gives it best-guess representation of what the senses perceives. This representation is sent to our conscious and subconscious mind, to keep us aware of our position in space and time. It is not perfect, but it is the best tools we have for our survival. If you lost one or more of your senses, maybe your cryptic views of "ultimate existence", " cognitive ideation", and what is real, might change dramatically. Also, there is a true differentiation between life and death.

The 50% is only an average percentage of how much our genes influence our personality. Some researchers list the percentages as slightly higher and some lower. The average total is 50%. In the simplest terms, our genes and alleles are roughly 50% distributed over the 5 categories of our personality. This doesn't mean that our total personality is controlled by 50% of our genes. There are many other factors that contribute to our attitudes, personality, and behavior.

Is Personality Genetic? , 11.3 Is Personality More Nature or More Nurture? Behavioral and Molecular Genetics | Introduction to Psychology, Searching for genes that explain our personalities , http://www.psy.miami.edu/faculty/dmessinger/c_c/rsrcs/rdgs/temperament/bouchard.04.curdir.pdf https://www.ukessays.com/essays/psy...e-determine-our-behavior-psychology-essay.php . If you don't want to read the entire studies, just read the conclusions.

There are many experiments and studies, that clearly demonstrates how our behavioral personalities are defined by others. Some behaviors that are the direct product of racial profiling, stereotyping, and our economic and educational status, are clearly obvious. Our behavior is generally defined by others. We simply react to how others react to us. Unless you have a mind that exists outside of the body, and can objectively perceive your behavior, what exactly would you be redefining? What? Self? Conscious changes that we make to our personality, are based on others perception of ourselves. Not our own perception.

One study involved putting caps with labels on the each subjects head. All subjects were told to treat the person, according to what was written on the label on his/her head. No one knew what would be stated on the labels. Some would state, "this person is smart and always have good ideas", "this person is always funny, laugh at whatever he says", "this person is a con, watch what you say", "this person always lies, don't listen", and "this person is stupid, has nothing really to offer". After about 1 1/2 hr, the experiment was terminated(to avoid permanent trauma), the labels revealed, and each participant then understood WHY they were being treated the way they were.The stigma in how you are treated within society lasts a lot longer, and is a lot more consistent.

Death is the cessation of all biological activities. It is NOT a mystery. There is usually no mystery about how and why we die. The only mystery for some, is what happens after death. What part of being dead do you think is a mystery? Exactly, what part of DEAD do you think is a "weak semantic point", or, "is beyond that which we recognize and think we understand as the immediate event"?

We DON'T have to know all natural laws. We only have to know ANY natural law to know that the dead do not, or cannot return to life. Especially in our 4-dimensional reality. If you knock over a chessboard, the pieces will fall everywhere. You wouldn't expect the chessboard and pieces to reverse time, and right themselves up on the table? Would you? To do this this requires energy to be put into the system. If not, the mess stays on the floor and slowly oxidizes.If any natural law is violated, they all will be affected. Therefore, the Dead stay dead forever. So life is precious and Truly worth living.

 

[PureX]

Thank you, Exactly what is vague or not clearly defined for you?

From your example, this: "What, exactly, does it mean to "create" something? What exactly does it mean to say that something is "impossible"? What exactly are you labeling a "rabbit"? And where exactly does the idea of a rabbit diverge from the thing you are labeling? And then finally, how do you justify everyone else adhering to your particular clarifications?" I don't see how you managed not to notice these questions. Or to recognize the importance of the specificity they ask for.

I simply illustrated the difference between difficult and impossible, with clear examples.

Well, no, you didn't. Because your example was not clear at all, due to the lack of specificity.

Unless you disagree that the majority of people find it difficult to quit smoking, or that it is impossible to make a rabbit appear by merely thinking it, I don't see a problem with clarity.

Well, first of all, the majority of people find it unthinkably easy to quit smoking simply by not developing the habit to begin with. Something that is easily overlooked when we are not being as clear and specific as we can be. And secondly, I can make a rabbit appear in my mind quite easily by simply imagining it. Or I can draw it's image on piece of paper, or I can say "rabbit" out loud causing a rabbit to appear in the minds of anyone that hears me. I could produce a photo of a rabbit from my pocket, and so on. Again, the more vague we are in our pronouncements, the less likely they are to be held valid. And rightly so.

What exactly did you think I meant by difficult and impossible?

I thought you meant difficult and impossible. Which is why I took issue with it; because we don't really know what exactly IS impossible. We think we do, but it's really just an opinion based on limited and relative information. How limited and relative we cannot know.

Was I vague because I didn't say slightly difficult, or nearly impossible?

Yes, but more then that, I think you were hiding from the fact that ultimately we can't know how difficult or impossible anything is, especially without establishing a specific criteria for what it is that we are proposing to achieve.

Even after giving you two examples? The rabbit was never the central issue, I could have used an apple or anything else, to illustrate that no one can create(cause to exist) anything by using only their thoughts.

But this is simply not true. We cause beauty, and justice, and love, and truth to exist all the time simply by thinking that they do.

The 50% is only an average percentage of how much our genes influence our personality.

How can we possibly know to what degree our genetic code has influenced our personality?

Some researchers list the percentages as slightly higher and some lower. The average total is 50%. In the simplest terms, our genes and alleles are roughly 50% distributed over the 5 categories of our personality. This doesn't mean that our total personality is controlled by 50% of our genes. There are many other factors that contribute to our attitudes, personality, and behavior.

Interestingly, the average would be 50% if we had no idea at all how much effect our genes have on our personality. Its like the weather man claiming there is a 50% chance of rain ... which tells us exactly nothing about whether or not it will actually rain.

Death is the cessation of all biological activities. It is NOT a mystery. There is usually no mystery about how and why we die. The only mystery for some, is what happens after death. What part of being dead do you think is a mystery? Exactly, what part of DEAD do you think is a "weak semantic point", or, "is beyond that which we recognize and think we understand as the immediate event"?

Death is not defined solely by the cessation of biological activity, which is what you keep trying to imply. "Death" refers also to the metaphysical end/transition.

 

[Truly Enlightened]

I'm afraid not comments came through.

 

[Audie]

Too much for most folks.......
A modern machine of half size and weight can produce much more power. And a Vincent is worth a whole house now.
I like seeing these wonderful machines, and hearing them, but I will leave their owners to lavish them with oil, grease and money.

My bike is 1970 something Motobecane Grand Record, that my Mom
bought when she was a grad student at Edinburgh.

It runs on Starbucks scones, one Audie-power.

 

[oldbadger]

My bike is 1970 something Motobecane Grand Record, that my Mom
bought when she was a grad student at Edinburgh.

It runs on Starbucks scones, one Audie-power.

A road racer....... probably goes well on Starbucks scones!
I ride a cheap mountain bike because the roads around here are unmade..... very rough. I also have a salcano-swift folding bike, only one speed but very light-weight. But I won't challenge @Truly Enlightened to any races with his Norton, rattle-shaky old bike or not.

 

[Truly Enlightened]

From your example, this: "What, exactly, does it mean to "create" something? What exactly does it mean to say that something is "impossible"? What exactly are you labeling a "rabbit"? And where exactly does the idea of a rabbit diverge from the thing you are labeling? And then finally, how do you justify everyone else adhering to your particular clarifications?" I don't see how you managed not to notice these questions. Or to recognize the importance of the specificity they ask for.
Well, no, you didn't. Because your example was not clear at all, due to the lack of specificity.
Well, first of all, the majority of people find it unthinkably easy to quit smoking simply by not developing the habit to begin with. Something that is easily overlooked when we are not being as clear and specific as we can be. And secondly, I can make a rabbit appear in my mind quite easily by simply imagining it. Or I can draw it's image on piece of paper, or I can say "rabbit" out loud causing a rabbit to appear in the minds of anyone that hears me. I could produce a photo of a rabbit from my pocket, and so on. Again, the more vague we are in our pronouncements, the less likely they are to be held valid. And rightly so.
I thought you meant difficult and impossible. Which is why I took issue with it; because we don't really know what exactly IS impossible. We think we do, but it's really just an opinion based on limited and relative information. How limited and relative we cannot know.
Yes, but more then that, I think you were hiding from the fact that ultimately we can't know how difficult or impossible anything is, especially without establishing a specific criteria for what it is that we are proposing to achieve.
But this is simply not true. We cause beauty, and justice, and love, and truth to exist all the time simply by thinking that they do.
How can we possibly know to what degree our genetic code has influenced our personality?
Interestingly, the average would be 50% if we had no idea at all how much effect our genes have on our personality. Its like the weather man claiming there is a 50% chance of rain ... which tells us exactly nothing about whether or not it will actually rain.
Death is not defined solely by the cessation of biological activity, which is what you keep trying to imply. "Death" refers also to the metaphysical end/transition.

Thank you. Are you purposely trying to convolute my simple terms to add unnecessarily complexity to their meanings? If you can't tell the difference between something that is "difficult", and something that is "impossible", then I suggest that you use your own examples from any dictionary. Or, call a friend. If one has not developed the smoking habit, you are right it is not difficult to quit smoking. But clearly the presumption is, that it is only difficult for those that have a smoking addiction. What's next, will you be unclear if I mean completely quit, or partially quit? I think most people are able to understand quite clearly, that it is DIFFICULT for most people who are addicted to smoking cigarettes to quit smoking.(less than 5% manage to). Also, If you can't understand why it is IMPOSSIBLE to create a physical construct of a rabbit, dog, apple, person, horse, chair, love, anger, painting, etc., by simply thinking it into reality(mental construct). As I have stated before, there IS a big gap between "difficult" and "impossible", and both are self-evident and intuitive. And both do not require any clarification, in spite of your contrived straw man questions and irrelevant rabbit labelling. I'm afraid to obfuscate their clear and obvious meaning, or by your subtle Ad hom distraction, is simply being intellectually dishonest. So, rather than trying to find how many ways you can distort or falsely equivocate my terms, maybe you can give me an example if a gap does or does NOT exist between "difficult", and "impossible"?

As I have stated before, I don't expect anyone to accept my hopefully informed opinions as fact. I also don't expect anyone to over-complicate or distort my syntax, in the pretense of supporting their presuppositions. What I do expect people to do, is understand the central theme of my train of thought, and either constructively enhance the argument, or constructively criticize the argument. Both would be positive, and both require comprehension and objective evidence. Not simply self-serving and useless editorializing.

I'm sure that you will agree, that from our conception to birth we have no conscious control over any of our physical and mental faculties or their characteristics? This applies to all living organisms as well. How could any organism relate or react to its environment using only conscious control? How would any organism survive, without having the means already hardwired into its being. What determines if the organism should stand and walk immediately after birth, or a year later? What determines its skin and eye colour, body symmetry, organ differentiations, maximum height, mortality, etc.? These inherited characteristic are defined and expressed by our genes. They are the basic blueprint that defines our physical features, and the basic foundation for our personality. No one questions the importance or the role they play in controlling many important aspects of the human condition. There was an experiment done that identified the gene(s) for sadness in some. Those that had the specific set of genes, all responded the same, when exposed to the same set of stimuli. I

 

[Truly Enlightened]

Sorry, for some reason all my reference materials, and the rest of my comments did not post. I will post when I have more time

 

[gnostic]

No, religious people are not stupid. They are just human.

On the whole, religious people are not stupid.

You cannot put everyone one label and dump them as “stupid”.

Understandably, some religious people are more educated, while others aren’t.

Likewise, some are good, while others are bad.

Some are rich, some are poor.

Some are biased, while others tolerant.

To me, it is possible for the uneducated to learn. Ignorance can be straightened out, but it often take time, effort and patience.

Stupidity, in my book, are the result of people who cannot learn, or worse still, refused to learn from their mistakes, and keep repeating their mistakes. This could be the result of person’s ego or bias.

 

[Truly Enlightened]

On the whole, religious people are not stupid.

You cannot put everyone on label and dump them as “stupid”.

Understandably, some religious people are more educated, while others aren’t.

Likewise, some are good, while others are bad.

Some are rich, some are poor.

Some are biased, while others tolerant.

To me, it is possible for the uneducated to learn. Ignorance can be straightened out, but it often take time, effort and patience.

Stupidity, in my book, are the result of people who cannot learn, or worse still, refused to learn from their mistakes, and keep repeating their mistakes. This could be the result of person’s ego or bias.

Thank you, and well said