SkepticThinker
Veteran Member
I'd say he just demolished your OP.
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Religious liberty and free speech under attack by the far left.
- Thread starter YeshuaRedeemed
- Start date
youknowme
Whatever you want me to be.
Are you not following my point?
Which of my "parameters" do you disagree with?
youknowme
Whatever you want me to be.
I'll clarify myself a bit more:
Here you mistakenly called my argument about calling my boss a mean jerk with a straw man. However, I think what you really mean is that you consider them a false equivalence. I assume you are viewing the insult of calling someone a mean jerk more extreme than the insult of referring to them by the incorrect gender. However, the experience of each insult is highly contextualize, and I have my doubts that you are in a position to evaluate the equivalence of these insults as they relate to transgender people.
Koldo
Outstanding Member
I am. Are you following mine ?
youknowme
Whatever you want me to be.
I am not following your point at all, and I am not entirely sure you actually have one.
Koldo
Outstanding Member
Why do you think you are in a position to say what I really meant ?
Koldo
Outstanding Member
If you are not a transgender person on what grounds can you argue about what trans people feel ?
youknowme
Whatever you want me to be.
Because I can read.
Koldo
Outstanding Member
Irrelevant. I have already said this is not about me.
Koldo
Outstanding Member
I can read too. I suppose that makes us even.
youknowme
Whatever you want me to be.
So then it seems that you do agree, that if one is not a transgender person then that person has no grounds on which to asses which insult is more damaging.
Koldo
Outstanding Member
I don't. I am just following your rationale. If you need to be a transgender person to make statements about how a transgender feels then you can't say that calling someone a jerk is similar to using a pronoun they don't like.
Then the entirely hypothetical person who objects to using trans people's proper names and pronouns: which of my parameters does he disagree with?
youknowme
Whatever you want me to be.
By that reasoning you also can't claim calling them a mean jerk is any different then referring to them by the wrong gender. Which means, that unless you want to risk being insulting and rude you should refer them in the manner they prefer. It is simple polite manners.
Koldo
Outstanding Member
What have we been talking about?
Isn't it about requiring others to use whatever pronoun and name you prefer or else... ?
Koldo
Outstanding Member
By your reasoning you can't claim anything at all about how trans people feel. But that's your reasoning, not mine.
By the way, of course it will often sound disrespectful if you don't call them by the name and pronoun they want. There's no debate about that.
youknowme
Whatever you want me to be.
You are the one that claimed the two were unequal, not I. That implies you understand it in the context of being the transgender person.
My "parameters" are that using a person's preferred pronouns and actual name are an expression of respect and politeness, and that refusing to use them are a mark of disrespect and impoliteness, and that we ought to act respectfully and politely to others unless they give us reason not to.
I get that the hypothetical (
) person you've been describing doesn't want to use people's preferred pronouns and names, but it's not at all clear whether this is because he thinks that this refusal isn't rude and disrespectful, or whether it's because he thinks that trans people aren't worthy of normal politeness and respect.
Koldo
Outstanding Member
You said they were equal and then later on you argued one has to be a trans person to know what a trans person feels. If you are not trans then you have refuted your own statement.
I don't work under the same premises, therefore I am not bound by your reasoning. What I am saying is: I don't need to be a trans person to know that calling someone a big mean jerk and calling someone by a pronoun they don't like are not the same thing.