Religious liberty and free speech under attack by the far left.

[YeshuaRedeemed]

First, I am not advising hate against people who identify as trans. Second, I believe religious and other people have the right to their beliefs and speech. I believe in loving all of my neighbors as myself, but can you imagine how annoyed I am when the far left in any country tries to dictate any of my speech or personal and peacefully held religious practices. This is a dictatorship, not a democracy, and the far left wants this to happen in America as well? I am not a conservative, but this is way out there. As always, I welcome your thoughts and your free speech.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

First, I am not advising hate against people who identify as trans. Second, I believe religious and other people have the right to their beliefs and speech. I believe in loving all of my neighbors as myself, but can you imagine how annoyed I am when the far left in any country tries to dictate any of my speech or personal and peacefully held religious practices. This is a dictatorship, not a democracy, and the far left wants this to happen in America as well? I am not a conservative, but this is way out there. As always, I welcome your thoughts and your free speech.

Except, if you actually read the full transcript of the debate, it's not as simple as "the far left are trying to control the way people speak" (incidentally, you've provided absolutely zero evidence of any such thing being pushed in America), but a debate about the wording of a bill that may potentially land someone in contempt of court for not using a preferred pronoun in specific legal contexts. This is not "the eeeeevil left trying to mind control you"! It's simple discussion about the ambiguities and complexities of a bill and a discussion about how to correct its potentially problematic legal consequences.

I also find it very odd that you include only extracts of Jared Brown's opinion and testimony and absolutely zero testimony from the FIVE other people in the committee, including those who reject Brown's interpretation of the Bill. I have absolutely no idea how you've broadened this net into an attack on the "far left".

A full transcript of the committee can be found here:

Transcript of testimony by Jordan Peterson and Jared Brown (among others) before Canada’s Standing Senate Committee on Legal and Constitutional Affairs

 

[Altfish]

First, I am not advising hate against people who identify as trans. Second, I believe religious and other people have the right to their beliefs and speech. I believe in loving all of my neighbors as myself, but can you imagine how annoyed I am when the far left in any country tries to dictate any of my speech or personal and peacefully held religious practices. This is a dictatorship, not a democracy, and the far left wants this to happen in America as well? I am not a conservative, but this is way out there. As always, I welcome your thoughts and your free speech.

Are you equally horrified that the right (not just the far right) dictate what women can do with their bodies?

 

[Marcion]

First, I am not advising hate against people who identify as trans. Second, I believe religious and other people have the right to their beliefs and speech. I believe in loving all of my neighbors as myself, but can you imagine how annoyed I am when the far left in any country tries to dictate any of my speech or personal and peacefully held religious practices. This is a dictatorship, not a democracy, and the far left wants this to happen in America as well? I am not a conservative, but this is way out there. As always, I welcome your thoughts and your free speech.

Who are you to decide what is "far-left"? Are you into demonizing groups?

 

[YeshuaRedeemed]

https://www.religiousforums.com/media/prolife-1.8794/full?d=1544248229 It is not the mother's body, nor is it her right to commit murder. My right to live is not dependent on my mother wanting me. If you don't want a baby, have your tubes removed like I did, use birth control, or don't have sex.

 

[YeshuaRedeemed]

Who are you to decide what is "far-left"? Are you into demonizing groups?

I have the right to religious liberty and free speech. For the record, I am a centrist Democrat.

 

[YeshuaRedeemed]

Except, if you actually read the full transcript of the debate, it's not as simple as "the far left are trying to control the way people speak" (incidentally, you've provided absolutely zero evidence of any such thing being pushed in America), but a debate about the wording of a bill that may potentially land someone in contempt of court for not using a preferred pronoun in specific legal contexts. This is not "the eeeeevil left trying to mind control you"! It's simple discussion about the ambiguities and complexities of a bill and a discussion about how to correct its potentially problematic legal consequences.

I also find it very odd that you include only extracts of Jared Brown's opinion and testimony and absolutely zero testimony from the FIVE other people in the committee, including those who reject Brown's interpretation of the Bill. I have absolutely no idea how you've broadened this net into an attack on the "far left".

A full transcript of the committee can be found here:

Transcript of testimony by Jordan Peterson and Jared Brown (among others) before Canada’s Standing Senate Committee on Legal and Constitutional Affairs

Sweetie plums, I found this video on youtube.com and wanted to debate.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

https://www.religiousforums.com/media/prolife-1.8794/full?d=1544248229 It is not the mother's body,

Yes it is.

nor is it her right to commit murder.

It's not murder.

My right to live is not dependent on my mother wanting me.

Your right to live is pre-empted by you being alive. Fetuses aren't alive.

If you don't want a baby, have your tubes removed like I did, use birth control, or don't have sex.

Except that there are a lot of other factors to consider, such as lack of access to birth control, lack of proper sex education, rape, diminished responsibility, the physical and emotional needs of the mother, etc. It would be wonderful to live in a world where things were always as simple as you want them to be, but the world is never so black and white.

 

[YeshuaRedeemed]

Yes it is.


It's not murder.


Your right to live is pre-empted by you being alive. Fetuses aren't alive.


Except that there are a lot of other factors to consider, such as lack of access to birth control, lack of proper sex education, rape, diminished responsibility, the physical and emotional needs of the mother, etc. It would be wonderful to live in a world where things were always as simple as you want them to be, but the world is never so black and white.

No it is NOT the mother's body, I just proved you wrong.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

Sweetie plums, I found this video on youtube.com and wanted to debate.

Not really. You found the video on YouTube, declared your target of the "far left" and said this amounted to the actions of a "dictatorship" while clearly misrepresenting the issue. Your started this thread not as an honest attempt to bring out about two-sided discussion, but in a deliberate and disingenuous attempt to discredit and attack a particular political group.

If you want a debate, present a premise for debate. Don't present a demonstrably misleading video, present a rhetoric-filled paragraph explaining your personal interpretation of that video as a means to attack a particular political group and then get patronizing when people point out that the subject you've put up for debate is being misrepresented by you.

So, without any partisan rhetoric designed to engender pre-judgement on the part of the reader, what specifically is it that you want to debate?

 

[YeshuaRedeemed]

Yes it is.


It's not murder.


Your right to live is pre-empted by you being alive. Fetuses aren't alive.


Except that there are a lot of other factors to consider, such as lack of access to birth control, lack of proper sex education, rape, diminished responsibility, the physical and emotional needs of the mother, etc. It would be wonderful to live in a world where things were always as simple as you want them to be, but the world is never so black and white.

I am a centrist, and I plan on starting a birth control fund to fix that problem. Next question, please.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

No it is NOT the mother's body, I just proved you wrong.

A human body is also not comprised of metal. Does that mean a person doesn't have the right to have a bullet removed from their body?

Your argument is asinine. Any procedure which involves invasively entering a human being's body naturally involves issues of bodily autonomy.

 

[Subduction Zone]

https://www.religiousforums.com/media/prolife-1.8794/full?d=1544248229 It is not the mother's body, nor is it her right to commit murder. My right to live is not dependent on my mother wanting me. If you don't want a baby, have your tubes removed like I did, use birth control, or don't have sex.

Even the Bible cannot be used to support that claim. After all it was okay in the Old Testament for a husband to force his wife to go through an abortion if she cheated on him.

 

[oldbadger]

It is not the mother's body,

Have you ever heard of Habeus Corpus?

nor is it her right to commit murder.

She won't be convicted of murder if she decided to end a ;pregnancy.
You don't get to make the law.

My right to live is not dependent on my mother wanting me.

The law says that up to a point it is.

If you don't want a baby, have your tubes removed like I did, use birth control, or don't have sex.

Women do not have to decide only upon those options.
You canniot tell women what they must do.... they don't have to listen to you.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

I am a centrist, and I plan on starting a birth control fund to fix that problem. Next question, please.

And is that birth control plan absolutely fool-proof and guaranteed to prevent absolutely 100% of all unwanted pregnancies and is abortion a part of that package?

 

[ImmortalFlame]

No it is NOT the mother's body, I just proved you wrong.

Also, "murder", by definition, is the unlawful killing of another human. Since abortion isn't unlawful, it cannot be considered murder.

You are proven wrong.

 

[YeshuaRedeemed]

Not really. You found the video on YouTube, declared your target of the "far left" and said this amounted to the actions of a "dictatorship" while clearly misrepresenting the issue. Your started this thread not as an honest attempt to bring out about two-sided discussion, but in a deliberate and disingenuous attempt to discredit and attack a particular political group.

If you want a debate, present a premise for debate. Don't present a demonstrably misleading video, present a rhetoric-filled paragraph explaining your personal interpretation of that video as a means to attack a particular political group and then get patronizing when people point out that the subject you've put up for debate is being misrepresented by you.

So, without any partisan rhetoric designed to engender pre-judgement on the part of the reader, what specifically is it that you want to debate?

Spoken like a true liberal. Read my signature if you are curious about my voting choices. Bernie in the primary, Hillary in the general, and I don't like the far right either. I noticed you are afraid to address my OP. Why is that?

 

[YeshuaRedeemed]

And is that birth control plan absolutely fool-proof and guaranteed to prevent absolutely 100% of all unwanted pregnancies and is abortion a part of that package?

A bilateral salpingectomy is. Here is some info:

 

[Curious George]

Spoken like a true liberal. Read my signature if you are curious about my voting choices. Bernie in the primary, Hillary in the general, and I don't like the far right either. I noticed you are afraid to address my OP. Why is that?

Pretty sure your OP has been handled. But what objection do you think remains? I agree that Canada's anti-hate speech does amount to a restriction on what we in the U.S. deem free speech. I also believe that they are entitled to carve out an exception to free speech by passing anti-hate speech laws.

But, if you sign on to anti-hate speech laws and object to including these gender based anti-hate laws then you are forming an internally inconsistent opinion.

 

[BSM1]

https://www.religiousforums.com/media/prolife-1.8794/full?d=1544248229 It is not the mother's body, nor is it her right to commit murder. My right to live is not dependent on my mother wanting me. If you don't want a baby, have your tubes removed like I did, use birth control, or don't have sex.

How about if you're fourteen years old and a rape victim? Would abortion be okay then? BTW, murder is a legal term. Abortions are legal. Ergo, abortions are not murder.