Of course they aren't the same thing.
Deliberately calling a person the wrong pronoun is jerkish. In that situation, what the jerk is saying is incorrect, but the person calling the jerk out for what he is is correct.
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Religious liberty and free speech under attack by the far left.
- Thread starter YeshuaRedeemed
- Start date
Deliberately calling a person the wrong pronoun is jerkish. In that situation, what the jerk is saying is incorrect, but the person calling the jerk out for what he is is correct.
YmirGF
Bodhisattva in Recovery
Pffft. Abstinence is a 100% effective method of birth control.
*Ducks and covers*
Koldo
Outstanding Member
My "parameters" are that using a person's preferred pronouns and actual name are an expression of respect and politeness, and that refusing to use them are a mark of disrespect and impoliteness, and that we ought to act respectfully and politely to others unless they give us reason not to.
I get that the hypothetical () person you've been describing doesn't want to use people's preferred pronouns and names, but it's not at all clear whether this is because he thinks that this refusal isn't rude and disrespectful, or whether it's because he thinks that trans people aren't worthy of normal politeness and respect.
Got to love the emote...
As if I was the one that doesn't use the pronouns that people want...
As I have repeatedly told you, this is not about me. But you seem to ignore that. Oh the irony. Disrespectful much, isn't it ?
I am not talking about someone using the pronoun that someone else doesn't want with the intent to show disrespect. Nor about someone that would be so naive as to think that such an act wouldn't be understood as disrespect.
I am talking about being true to oneself. Acting and speaking according to how they truly view the person.
Koldo
Outstanding Member
I demand you to fix the quote in your post.
I don't want to report your post for a blatant violation of the forum rules.
Koldo
Outstanding Member
Opinion noted.
youknowme
Whatever you want me to be.
I am sure I'll live through it.
Koldo
Outstanding Member
Have a good day.
youknowme
Whatever you want me to be.
Then explain Jesus.
You don't want it to be about you, but there are two people in this conversation. I think you're being evasive; I have no problem calling attention to this.
If you know that it isn't the person's preferred pronoun but use it anyway, then there's intentional disrespect.
... in a disrespectful manner.
In a roundabout way, I think you gave me your answer: our point of disagreement is that you don't see it as disrespectful to be impolite to a trans person.
youknowme
Whatever you want me to be.
It is just a bit of a taste of your own medicine.
Koldo
Outstanding Member
Calling attention to what ? To me ? By implying I have a position that I don't have even though I have specifically asked you not to make this about me ? Why don't you respect me ?
I will try to be more clear:
I do see it as being disrespectful to call someone by the pronoun they don't want. But I can also understand that someone might feel like they are being disrespectful towards themselves by using the pronoun the other person wants. In which case, one has to ponder what is more important and I think it is legimate to choose to be respectful towards oneself even if that entails being disrespectful towards others.
If someone has a serious problem with using a person's preferred pronouns, they can find ways to avoid it. As I touched on earlier, there are generally ways to refer to people that don't involve naming the person or referring to them by name (e.g. "your spouse," "our accountant," "the nice person who helped me when I was in earlier," "doctor," etc.).
It's also often possible to just remove onesself from the situation: if you don't want to worry about the possibility that you might have to - gasp - refer to the trans barista at your local coffee shop by name, you can just go without your coffee.
The only time that "being respectful to onesself" (if that's even a valid way to describe being anti-trans) would even matter is if the person couldn't be bothered to make sure to avoid the conflict between their prejudices and being civil.
YmirGF
Bodhisattva in Recovery
youknowme
Whatever you want me to be.
Immaculate conception. No daddy!
Yes, but still if the Virgin Mary gave birth than abstinence is not a 100% method for birth control.
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Kangaroo Feathers
Yea, it is written in the Book of Cyril...
Parthenogenesis - WikipediaImmaculate conception. No daddy!
The Immaculate Conception refers to Mary being conceived without original sin, not Jesus' birth. People mix them up a lot.Immaculate conception. No daddy!
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Koldo
Outstanding Member
Sounds like a solution but... I wonder to what extent a trans person would find it acceptable.
Being constantly referred as 'my mother's first child' by your brother must sound really weird, particularly due to the lack of pronouns.
Would you be fine with people constantly referring to you as 'employee number 135' when no one else is called like that in your work place ?
I was talking about occasional interactions. Yes: if someone with anti-trans prejudices can't muster the strength to act with normal civility toward trans and non-binary people, eventually their disrespect will probably become apparent and may cause issues.