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Religions Vs. Cults. Is there a solid difference?

Monk Of Reason

༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ
I think your logic is lacking. All I am getting is that you have a low opinion of all religions. If you spent any time at all with a true cultic devotee, the difference between them and a normal person is like night and day. They don't call adherents of Scientology "Ron-droids" for nothing.
What is even more frighting is that you can have a seemingly normal and functional individual suddenly turn to you and tell you that they have been spoken to by god and he will heal their cancer away if they pray hard enough. That is even more frighting. Religion does funny things to people and its just to what degree has it been assimilated into their culture and society. Like I said Christianity for instance has been beaten back by secularism and now allows people to more passively believe in their religion and still function normally. But again if we were to go back in time during a period in which religious fervor was high and secularism was low you will see many common similarities to cults and these same mainstream religions.


Well due to the attributes of a cult, it CAN't get very large. First, it is destructive to its members. So if people can escape in any way, they will. And the bad publicity makes it tough to recruit new members on a large scale. Second, a cult normally is led by a charismatic leader. Once that leader dies, the group normally peters out.

Being harmful to its members is one of the definitions that describes a cult. If a group is not destructive, then it may not be a cult at all.

Most people that I know call Scientology a cult. And it is shrinking.
Cults don't have to be destructive to its members. If it gets large enough and is publicly recognized a cult becomes a religion. Nothing inherently changes about the qualities of that religion. There are specific types of cults which you are thinking of but it isn't the broad definition of a cult.

a system of religious veneration and devotion directed toward a particular figure or object.
"the cult of St. Olaf"
  • a relatively small group of people having religious beliefs or practices regarded by others as strange or sinister.
    "a network of Satan-worshiping cults"
    synonyms: sect, denomination, group, movement, church, persuasion, body, faction
    "a religious cult"
  • a misplaced or excessive admiration for a particular person or thing.
I don't see "harmful to members" as a necessary quality of cults. Even if it was the case I would argue all religions are to some degree harmful or potentially harmful to the followers.
 

Cephus

Relentlessly Rational
As cults attempt to masquerade as legitimate religions, they will appear to share the same characteristics. As I said earlier, a scam has many of the same characteristics as the entity that they try to copy. I just received another notice from the IRS today warning against scammers that give out badge numbers, have access to personal SSN, and appear to call from IRS Headquarters. Does that mean that the scammers are legitimate government tax collectors?

Great, so you can list a case here or a case there of some church behaving poorly. For the cults, behaving poorly is how they operate all the time.

You're assuming that there are any such things as legitimate religions. I don't think you can defend that view.
 

Yoshua

Well-Known Member
So most Evangelical/Fundamentalist Christians and Muslims?
Not really particular with these faiths that you mentioned. We can trace them by several parameters or checklist if their beliefs is undergoing a cult doctrine.

What I have mentioned regarding the puppet system (without religious freedom) in a certain church is already considered a cult. Others categorized the word "cult" as the church that is unorthodox in teaching. By the way, Orthodox doctrines includes the trinity, incarnation of Jesus Christ, baptism......

Thanks
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
Well if it makes you feel better to call religions cults then by all means.
Whatever floats your boat.
The Catholic Church calls itself a "cult" in some contexts (before my first marriage, I had to get a "petition for difference of cult" signed by the local bishop because I'm unbaptized).
Truth is that the word cult carries some pretty negative connotations with it, So unless you're willing to embrace that then I find it disingenuous to assert that religions and cults are interchangeable.
Thinking about it a bit more, I think I've figured out a good definition:

"Cult" is a term that people of one religion use to describe another religion that they wish to distance themselves from. (Oh - those people? They're a 'cult', so what they do has nothing to do with my 'religion'.")
 

Thana

Lady
The Catholic Church calls itself a "cult" in some contexts (before my first marriage, I had to get a "petition for difference of cult" signed by the local bishop because I'm unbaptized).

Thinking about it a bit more, I think I've figured out a good definition:

"Cult" is a term that people of one religion use to describe another religion that they wish to distance themselves from. (Oh - those people? They're a 'cult', so what they do has nothing to do with my 'religion'.")

Hah, that's actually pretty apt.
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
Religion started off as cults. There is nothing wrong with cults nor religion. People make devotion to faith by action so negative that it makes me ill. Either word, there is no difference other than religions have more people, a lot of them are structure (take Jehovah Witness and Catholicism for example), and they have set structures and all that you mentioned below.


From Wikipedia.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cult

In the sociological classifications of religious movements in English, a cult is a religious or social group with socially deviant or novel beliefs and practices.[1] However, whether any particular group's beliefs and practices are sufficiently deviant or novel is often unclear, thus making a precise definition problematic.[2][3] In the English speaking world, the word often carries derogatory connotations, but in other European languages, it is used as English-speakers use the word, "religion," sometimes causing confusion for English-speakers reading material translated from other languages.[4][5] The word "cult" has always been controversial because it is (in a pejorative sense) considered a subjective term, used as an ad hominem attack against groups with differing doctrines or practices, which lacks a clear or consistent definition.[6][7]

Beginning in the 1930s, cults became the object of sociological study in the context of the study of religious behavior.[8] Certain groups have been labelled as cults and have been opposed by the Christian countercult movement for their unorthodox beliefs. Since the 1970s, some groups have been opposed by the anti-cult movement, partly motivated in reaction to acts of violence committed by members of some groups. Some of the claims by the anti-cult movement have been disputed by other scholars and by the news media, leading to further controversy. Public and governmental reactions to the cult issue have also been a source of controversy.

A religion is an organized collection of beliefs, cultural systems, and world views that relate humanity to an order of existence.[note 1] Many religions have narratives, symbols, and sacred histories that aim to explain the meaning of life, the origin of life, or the Universe. From their beliefs about the cosmos and human nature, people may derive morality, ethics, religious laws or a preferred lifestyle.

Many religions may have organized behaviors, clergy, a definition of what constitutes adherence or membership, holy places, and scriptures. The practice of a religion may include rituals, sermons, commemoration or veneration (of a deity, gods, or goddesses), sacrifices, festivals, feasts, trances, initiations, funerary services, matrimonial services, meditation, prayer, music, art, dance, public service, or other aspects of human culture. Religions may also contain mythology.[1]

The word religion is sometimes used interchangeably with faith or set of duties;[2] however, in the words of Émile Durkheim, religion differs from private belief in that it is "something eminently social".[3] A global 2012 poll reports 59% of the world's population as "religious" and 23% as not religious, including 13% who are atheists, with a 9% decrease in religious belief from 2005.[4] However, their 2015 poll found that only 22% of the world population is not religious and only 11% were "convinced atheists".[5] On average, women are "more religious" than men.[6] Some people follow multiple religions or multiple religious principles at the same time, regardless of whether or not the religious principles they follow traditionally allow for syncretism.[7][8][9]


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion

From what I gather cults are just less popular religions.
 

Akivah

Well-Known Member
Cults don't have to be destructive to its members.

{snip}

I don't see "harmful to members" as a necessary quality of cults.

And I do. That seems to be the nugget of our disagreement. For me, a religious entity that is destructive to its members qualifies as a cult.
 

Cephus

Relentlessly Rational
And I do. That seems to be the nugget of our disagreement. For me, a religious entity that is destructive to its members qualifies as a cult.

But I consider all religions to be destructive to their members. They teach things which cannot be substantiated as true as fact, that is harm right there.
 

McDoogins

Member
But I consider all religions to be destructive to their members. They teach things which cannot be substantiated as true as fact, that is harm right there.

There are many religious institutions that offer goodwill in their teachings; such as giving food and clothing to the homeless or poor. That's not very destructive.
 

Akivah

Well-Known Member
But I consider all religions to be destructive to their members. They teach things which cannot be substantiated as true as fact, that is harm right there.

Oh, hogwash! It's bizarre that you consider yourself to be rational, but are unable to see the difference between a) an organization that teaches it members things that you don't agree with versus b) an organization that practices mind-control of its members, isolates them from their friends and families, and steals all their property.
 

Cephus

Relentlessly Rational
There are many religious institutions that offer goodwill in their teachings; such as giving food and clothing to the homeless or poor. That's not very destructive.

But do they offer food and clothing to the homeless and poor with no strings attached, or do they require them to listen to religious messages and have to put up with proselytizing in order to get a handout? Charity with strings is not charity.
 

Cephus

Relentlessly Rational
Oh, hogwash! It's bizarre that you consider yourself to be rational, but are unable to see the difference between a) an organization that teaches it members things that you don't agree with versus b) an organization that practices mind-control of its members, isolates them from their friends and families, and steals all their property.

Because when it comes to religion, there really is no difference. It has nothing to do with whether I agree with it or not, it has to do with whether it's rationally defensible and objectively and evidentially supportable or not. With religion, it is not, period. And funny how many of these religious organizations are pushing for tithing and passing around the collection plate because the pastor needs a new car, isn't it? Creflo Dollar, after failing to get a new jet out of his followers, now wants them to send him into space. Joel Osteen is charging people $850 a head to listen to him speak. Pat Robertson is telling people to push religious schooling on children of atheist parents. What is this if not for mind-control, isolation and the like?
 

McDoogins

Member
But do they offer food and clothing to the homeless and poor with no strings attached, or do they require them to listen to religious messages and have to put up with proselytizing in order to get a handout? Charity with strings is not charity.

I wouldn't mind hearing about someone's faith if I get a free sandwich out the deal.
 

Monk Of Reason

༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ
And I do. That seems to be the nugget of our disagreement. For me, a religious entity that is destructive to its members qualifies as a cult.
Why? Is it a personal definition or is there some reason why you wish to follow that aberrant interpretation?

edit:
And one can argue that all religion is to some degree harmful to its followers. Could I then say that all religions are cults? But not all cults are religions?
 

Akivah

Well-Known Member
Aberrant interpretation?? ROFL. It is your definition that calls all religions cults, that is aberrant.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cult#Destructive_cults

Psychologist Michael Langone, executive director of the anti-cult group International Cultic Studies Association, defines a destructive cult as "a highly manipulative group which exploits and sometimes physically and/or psychologically damages members and recruits".[104]

When you have a family member that belonged to one of these destructive cults, then come talk to me.
 

Cephus

Relentlessly Rational
I wouldn't mind hearing about someone's faith if I get a free sandwich out the deal.

I'm sure there are people who feel that way, they couldn't care less about the religious blather so long as they get food or a roof over their heads for the night. But these churches aren't doing charity for the sake of charity, they're doing it for recruitment. I have no respect for anyone who says "we'll help you, but only if we get something out of it".
 

McDoogins

Member
I'm sure there are people who feel that way, they couldn't care less about the religious blather so long as they get food or a roof over their heads for the night. But these churches aren't doing charity for the sake of charity, they're doing it for recruitment. I have no respect for anyone who says "we'll help you, but only if we get something out of it".

Not every group is like that though.
 

Cephus

Relentlessly Rational
Not every group is like that though.

No, I'm sure there are some that aren't and I'm not criticizing those. But a lot are and they deserve a lot of criticism. I'm willing to bet that the overwhelming majority of religious charitable organizations include some kind of religious component as part of their operations.
 

viole

Ontological Naturalist
Premium Member
From Wikipedia.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cult

In the sociological classifications of religious movements in English, a cult is a religious or social group with socially deviant or novel beliefs and practices.[1] However, whether any particular group's beliefs and practices are sufficiently deviant or novel is often unclear, thus making a precise definition problematic.[2][3] In the English speaking world, the word often carries derogatory connotations, but in other European languages, it is used as English-speakers use the word, "religion," sometimes causing confusion for English-speakers reading material translated from other languages.[4][5] The word "cult" has always been controversial because it is (in a pejorative sense) considered a subjective term, used as an ad hominem attack against groups with differing doctrines or practices, which lacks a clear or consistent definition.[6][7]

Beginning in the 1930s, cults became the object of sociological study in the context of the study of religious behavior.[8] Certain groups have been labelled as cults and have been opposed by the Christian countercult movement for their unorthodox beliefs. Since the 1970s, some groups have been opposed by the anti-cult movement, partly motivated in reaction to acts of violence committed by members of some groups. Some of the claims by the anti-cult movement have been disputed by other scholars and by the news media, leading to further controversy. Public and governmental reactions to the cult issue have also been a source of controversy.

A religion is an organized collection of beliefs, cultural systems, and world views that relate humanity to an order of existence.[note 1] Many religions have narratives, symbols, and sacred histories that aim to explain the meaning of life, the origin of life, or the Universe. From their beliefs about the cosmos and human nature, people may derive morality, ethics, religious laws or a preferred lifestyle.

Many religions may have organized behaviors, clergy, a definition of what constitutes adherence or membership, holy places, and scriptures. The practice of a religion may include rituals, sermons, commemoration or veneration (of a deity, gods, or goddesses), sacrifices, festivals, feasts, trances, initiations, funerary services, matrimonial services, meditation, prayer, music, art, dance, public service, or other aspects of human culture. Religions may also contain mythology.[1]

The word religion is sometimes used interchangeably with faith or set of duties;[2] however, in the words of Émile Durkheim, religion differs from private belief in that it is "something eminently social".[3] A global 2012 poll reports 59% of the world's population as "religious" and 23% as not religious, including 13% who are atheists, with a 9% decrease in religious belief from 2005.[4] However, their 2015 poll found that only 22% of the world population is not religious and only 11% were "convinced atheists".[5] On average, women are "more religious" than men.[6] Some people follow multiple religions or multiple religious principles at the same time, regardless of whether or not the religious principles they follow traditionally allow for syncretism.[7][8][9]


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion

From what I gather cults are just less popular religions.

Yes, if you believe that a wafer can turn into the body of a 2000 years old god, you belong to a religion.
If you believe that you can hitchhike a ride to heaven on a comet you belong to a cult.

Ciao

- viole
 
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