"Religion of Peace?"

[icehorse]

However, importing it to European countries or America is not something that Islam has any wish to do, in any form or sect.

Sadly, many recent polls of Muslims living the west do not agree with you. I wish they did. In other words, many Muslims living in the west want to import Sharia to the west. This is already causing problems, and it's going to get really bad if we don't make a change.

 

[sovietchild]

Sadly, many recent polls of Muslims living the west do not agree with you. I wish they did. In other words, many Muslims living in the west want to import Sharia to the west. This is already causing problems, and it's going to get really bad if we don't make a change.

I want to import sharia law to Ukraine. And sharia law could work for South America aka the most criminal region of the world. Instead of putting drug lords to prisons, one will execute them. It will send the message across the region. New sheriff in town.

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

If a Muslim wants to live in a Sharia system of law it is their culture and worked for a very long time.

However, importing it to European countries or America is not something that Islam has any wish to do, in any form or sect.

Not true. The Pakistani government has in the last month started lobbying Facebook, demanding that it deletes comments and posts which are considered 'blasphemous' to Muslims. This is after a demand by the country's Prime Minister for people who post content on social media which is blasphemous to Islam to be prosecuted. Such a move would inevitably affect non-Muslims and would more than likely apply Pakistani law to foreigners as well as Islamic law to non-Muslims.

There's also the persistent case of the Organisation of Islamic Cooperation repeatedly trying to push through global blasphemy laws at the UN which would make the mockery, insulting or even fact-based criticism of Islam against international law.

And how about that? There's a case of a Muslim contradicting you in this very thread:

I want to import sharia law to Ukraine. And sharia law could work for South America aka the most criminal region of the world. Instead of putting drug lords to prisons, one will execute them. It will send the message across the region. New sheriff in town.

Oh man, is that inconvenient.

They can live Sharia in Europe and America, anywhere, it doesn't need to be enforced by the law of the land to be practiced.

So, in fact, Muslims have actually imported Sharia law to Europe and America if they can live under it.

Just like American Jews and Halakha. Same thing.

No it isn't. There's no global campaign by Jewish people to subject every non-Jewish nation to Jewish law.

Except the television hasn't told you to fear Halakha, although it is a bigger threat, because, well, you know why.

Oh, do go on. Tell us all why 'teh evil j00z' are the bigger threat this time. I can't wait to hear this one.

Noachide Law, anyone?

No thanks. Fortunately, there isn't a push at the UN to force non-Jewish countries to be subject to Noachide Law. Can't say the same for the Sharia though...

 

[Aberamentho]

Sadly, many recent polls of Muslims living the west do not agree with you. I wish they did. In other words, many Muslims living in the west want to import Sharia to the west. This is already causing problems, and it's going to get really bad if we don't make a change.

I would not suggest placing value in polls.

If a poll even says such a thing it is propaganda I almost guarantee you that.

Muslims don't need permission to live according to Sharia, it's protected by the Constitution.

There is no point in what you are proposing, Sharia is possible to live by anywhere, it doesn't have to be the law of the land.

Obviously certain conflicts are inevitable but jurisprudence is capable of solving them amicably.

In fact it is here already, Muslims live according to Sharia here in America already.

No need to "import" what is here already.

No need to fight for already constitutionally protected religous rights.

Dumb poll.

 

[Aberamentho]

Sadly, many recent polls of Muslims living the west do not agree with you. I wish they did. In other words, many Muslims living in the west want to import Sharia to the west. This is already causing problems, and it's going to get really bad if we don't make a change.

Problems like what? Muslims existing in white nations?

Because Sharia is for Muslims and not non Muslims, can't be enforced upon them if they even wished in America and these problems sound imaginary unless you say what they are specifically.

I am a Muslim and I have never even been taught Sharia, except basic stuff, so I don't see how it could be a problem for a non Muslim if it is not for me.

By basic stuff I mean I was handed a brochure. That's it.

It's not like they are appointing Muslim judges, the only one in the country just "committed suicide."

 

[Aberamentho]

I want to import sharia law to Ukraine. And sharia law could work for South America aka the most criminal region of the world. Instead of putting drug lords to prisons, one will execute them. It will send the message across the region. New sheriff in town.

I am not 100% certain but I think the word Sheriff comes from the Arabic language, Sharif. Seriously!

I have to check now, I will be back.


ETA: I entered Sheriff and then Sha- and it suggested Sheriff Sharif, but, apparently no connection although if you ask me it makes more sense than what Wikipedia proposed as the etymylogical root of Sheriff, you will have to look, I can't remember, it was acceptable as an explanation I guess but I still think Sharif, which has noble connotations to it, makes sense. I don't think they would really deny it though so I will accept it is just a coincidence, I have to accept some.

 

[icehorse]

Problems like what? Muslims existing in white nations?

Because Sharia is for Muslims and not non Muslims, can't be enforced upon them if they even wished in America and these problems sound imaginary unless you say what they are specifically.

I am a Muslim and I have never even been taught Sharia, except basic stuff, so I don't see how it could be a problem for a non Muslim if it is not for me.

By basic stuff I mean I was handed a brochure. That's it.

It's not like they are appointing Muslim judges, the only one in the country just "committed suicide."

So basically, by your own admission you are ill-informed, but we should listen to what you have to say on the topic?

 

[Aberamentho]

So basically, by your own admission you are ill-informed, but we should listen to what you have to say on the topic?

That's how you take it.

I'm saying it is not a threat, plain and simple, and not something Muslims are prevented from practicing, if that sounds ill-informed it is because you are not a Muslim, aren't accepting that Sharia is not obligatory on any non Muslim, already is in America and not imposed on anyone.

It is not the will of Muslims to "impose" Sharia, is what I am saying. I don't have to be a scholar of Sharia to know that in America it is not impossible to live according to Sharia and not impose it. Or that nobody wants to impose Muslim law on people that don't even believe in Islam because there is no reason to. For what purpose and to achieve what? We don't mind the fact that other religions and cultures exist and our religion demands we don't discriminate based on religion, has since the Qur'an, we have always respected Judaism and Christianity and have been able to coexist since the beginning of Islam and the peace was made with them and local tribes.Jews and Christians didn't have to live under Sharia, could even self govern. It's never been imposed on other religions. Only Soverign state laws.

Apparently calling people ill-informed is some kind of defense mechanism whenever confronted with simple logic that makes what you just said kind of absurd

I will say it again. Muslims already can and do live according to Sharia, in America and it is protected by the Constitution of the United States, so they don't have to fight for a right already existing.

And don't want or have any reason to impose it on anyone. We believe in what the Qur'an says, which is literally, "There is no compulsion in religion."

Meaning forced conversions. Or forcing people to follow the traditions of a religion they don't believe in, like Sharia.

It's only for Muslims.

 

[icehorse]

Apparently calling people ill-informed is some kind of defense mechanism whenever confronted with simple logic that makes what you just said kind of absurd

YOU were the one that said that the extent of your knowledge was that you were "handed a brochure".

As far as the "not imposing" stuff goes, well there is 1400 years of Islamic history that shows pretty clearly that Muslims consistently DO impose Sharia on others.

 

[The Kilted Heathen]

Actually that's a human trait,

And as humans make religion, how do you think that affects it?

Unless you get a cabin in Montana or something.

You would still not be at peace; you would need to constantly defend against nature that is actively trying to kill you.

 

[The Kilted Heathen]

I am not 100% certain but I think the word Sheriff comes from the Arabic language, Sharif. Seriously!

It does not. It is derived from the English "Shire Reeve". The reeve was in essence the lawman of medieval England, and the Shire reeve oversaw all the reeves within a given shire; what a Sherriff does today.

 

[Aberamentho]

It does not. It is derived from the English "Shire Reeve". The reeve was in essence the lawman of medieval England, and the Shire reeve oversaw all the reeves within a given shire; what a Sherriff does today.

Yeah I retracted that. I figured it out it was a coincidence.

 

[Aberamentho]

And as humans make religion, how do you think that affects it?


You would still not be at peace; you would need to constantly defend against nature that is actively trying to kill you.

All I know is I am at peace.

I hope everyone else is too.

 

[Aberamentho]

YOU were the one that said that the extent of your knowledge was that you were "handed a brochure".

As far as the "not imposing" stuff goes, well there is 1400 years of Islamic history that shows pretty clearly that Muslims consistently DO impose Sharia on others.

So what if I said I was handed a brochure, it obviously wasn't because I was embarrassed about not being a Sharia scholar.

Something I don't need to be to make the points I well made already.

As far as your typical stereotypical misunderstood version of Muslim history, it's not the educated, true version but they mythological one all intelligent people have learned about by now.

That is in your imagination, not in history, which proves just the opposite, the Muslim world was actually a model of tolerance.

You not being aware of it is like me knowing your hand in a game of poker, I have proof you don't know Muslim history at all now. Never assume.

 

[Aberamentho]

YOU were the one that said that the extent of your knowledge was that you were "handed a brochure".

As far as the "not imposing" stuff goes, well there is 1400 years of Islamic history that shows pretty clearly that Muslims consistently DO impose Sharia on others.

At least this makes clear the why as to your profound ignorance of Muslim culture.

Zero knowledge, just what the unlearned spew, an assumed historical narrative so far from reality it should make your head spin when you figure out how misinformed you've been. A pbs documentary could clear that myth up in 45 minutes.

 

[The Kilted Heathen]

All I know is I am at peace.

A person being at peace does not mean their religion is, though. Also even being argumentative on a forum is not peaceful. Truly being "peaceful" is completely against human nature, nature itself, and all of existence. It is an ideological aberration, an illusion, and functionally a "downtime" to prepare for the next assault. Being "at peace" does not guarantee peacefulness.

 

[psychoslice]

No it certainly is not a religion of peace.

 

[Aberamentho]

I actually say that literally.

PBS has an excellent documentary called "Empire of Faith" on YouTube. Anyone who wants to trash Islam and claim it wasn't a tolerant society by even modern standards, and an advanced one far ahead of its time at that, needs a wake up call.

It was, even as Europe wallowed in its own filth just to the north of Muslims Spain, with its endless killings, Inquisitions and oppression into ignorance of Europe called the Dark Ages, Muslim Spain had Christians, Jews, Muslims and anyone in the world who wanted an education either went their or Baghdad.

Islam gave sanctuary to the persecuted-by-Catholics-endlessly Jews for over 1,000 years, up until 2003 Jews still lived in Iraq, the center of Jewish learning in Medieval times.

 

[Aberamentho]

No it certainly is not a religion of peace.

You only say your opinions and never any facts.

Are you that bored you are here to discuss nothing at all? Just "No, they are not."?

Well thanks for that contribution to society.

 

[Aberamentho]

A person being at peace does not mean their religion is, though. Also even being argumentative on a forum is not peaceful. Truly being "peaceful" is completely against human nature, nature itself, and all of existence. It is an ideological aberration, an illusion, and functionally a "downtime" to prepare for the next assault. Being "at peace" does not guarantee peacefulness.

My religion is at peace provided it is not in Syria or Iraq, Afghanistan, Palestine, where they are being killed daily.

Innocent civilians.

Otherwise Islam will always be at peace and even manages to be at peace in the most miserable conditions imaginable.

To struggle against oppression is to serve God. It brings peace.