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Featured "Religion of Peace?"

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by hughwatt, Apr 14, 2017.

  1. Saint Frankenstein

    Saint Frankenstein Pyrphóros ⚡ Lux Aeterna
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    And where does Christianity get its morals from, if not from a basis in Scripture, at least partially?
     
  2. ADigitalArtist

    ADigitalArtist Well-Known Member
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    Even if you were to argue Stalinism was religious, it was neither theistic(Stalin was hero worshipped but not a non-physical divine being) or deistic(uninvolved creator god) Nor is it the only example. Mao and Pol Pot definitely weren't limited to Abrahamics.
    Also this is besides the point that I am about as far removed from those violently anti-theistic political movements as your average Muslim and Isis.
     
  3. sun rise

    sun rise "Let there be peace and love among all"
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    To repeat a few points - every religion has scripture which indicates that one should go to war, including Christianity. Every religion has scripture indicating that people should be loving and peaceful, including Islam. Every religion has a set of "thou shalt" which can be turned into laws (see Christian reconstructionism, for example) or religious laws in Israel or even old fashioned "blue laws" in the USA. Every religion has adherents who selectively apply what the scripture says.

    About Islam, I've read translations which have a few passages that are absolutely contradictory leaving me to agree with Muslims who say that a translation is not the same as the original text.
     
  4. Servant_of_the_One1

    Servant_of_the_One1 Well-Known Member

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    Islam means submitting to the will of Allah.

    Whoever says Islam means peace is an liar. It means submitting to the will of Allah.

    However we grant kuffar safety aslong they dont fight against the muslims.
     
  5. icehorse

    icehorse Well-Known Member
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    How magnanimous of you ;)
     
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  6. icehorse

    icehorse Well-Known Member
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    You probably won't like this answer, but we probably get our morals via evolution and having to form groups and tribes to exist out there on the mean streets of the Savannah.
     
  7. Saint Frankenstein

    Saint Frankenstein Pyrphóros ⚡ Lux Aeterna
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    Yeah, but what does that have to do with what I said? Are you saying that religious scriptures have nothing to do with the morality of the people who follow the religions? You're not being clear. You can't have it both ways in that all the good things religious people do are due to social evolution and all the bad things religious people do are due to religious writings.
     
  8. icehorse

    icehorse Well-Known Member
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    I've never claimed that YOU were. But this equating of atheism to Stalinism is a common tactic and it's just not accurate. All of these guys, Stalin, Mao, and so on, created cults of personality (is that the expression?) which were to replace the existing religions with a new flavor of dogma.
     
  9. J2hapydna

    J2hapydna Active Member

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    Quite right, the Quran itself claims this to be true. One must have wisdom to understand any scripture Quran, Bible or any other
     
  10. Augustus

    Augustus the Unreasonable

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    That's just redefining reality to suit your ideological needs.

    It's the atheist equivalent of saying Islam is a religion of peace.
     
  11. icehorse

    icehorse Well-Known Member
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    In this case, my only claim is that the source of YOUR morals is NOT from scripture, or you'd be in jail. So basically I'd say yes, if a person in recent history is a morally good person, that person did NOT get his moral compass from Abrahamic scripture. Instead, that person got good morals from society, and then cherry picked the scripture to find common ground.
     
  12. Saint Frankenstein

    Saint Frankenstein Pyrphóros ⚡ Lux Aeterna
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    Interpreting a book isn't "cherry picking". It's putting the material in its proper context. I'm not a Jew living 2,500 years ago so I'm not going to be following ancient Jewish tribal law.
     
  13. sun rise

    sun rise "Let there be peace and love among all"
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    Yes as well as new "scripture" whether Das Kapital or the Thoughts of Chairman Mao.
     
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  14. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist Veteran Member

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    If Islam isn't a religion of peace (meaning it's doctrine isn't peaceful) then all the peaceful Muslims are not real Muslims unless they are not peaceful to reflect the name of their unpeaceful religion?
     
  15. icehorse

    icehorse Well-Known Member
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    I disagree. These fascists created new religions. just like Christianity replaced older religions. But these fascist regimes had very religious-like characteristics, starting with the regime's rigid enforcement of the ideology's dogma.
     
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  16. Augustus

    Augustus the Unreasonable

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    Don't forget society got its morals, in part, from scripture.

    It's an endless mobius effect.
     
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  17. icehorse

    icehorse Well-Known Member
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    Cool! So by what means to you decide how to interpret the scripture? How do you know that the instruction to stone non-virginal brides should be disregarded?
     
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  18. Augustus

    Augustus the Unreasonable

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    All guiding ideologies have 'religious' type aspects.

    Just like religions though, some are more ritualistic and/or hardline than others.

    There have been violent and oppressive atheistic ideologies since the enlightenment. They have just as much right to be considered atheistic as your or my ideology.
     
  19. Saint Frankenstein

    Saint Frankenstein Pyrphóros ⚡ Lux Aeterna
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    I follow the Church's interpretations of the Bible, Catholic and Orthodox theologians, etc.
     
  20. icehorse

    icehorse Well-Known Member
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    Well somewhere along the line over the last 2000 years someone decided that bride stoning was no longer a good idea. And the scripture didn't change, right? So at some point society updated morality. The church is forced to keep adjusting its relationship to increasingly errant scripture. It used to be only 5% was wrong. Then it was 10% wrong, now who knows, 40% wrong?
     
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