Religion in Decline

[Dan4reason]

You are more likely to do what you think is good. Whether or not that is actually good remains to be seen.

Religious people are more likely to adhere to a religious code than non-religious people. Sometimes of course, religious people break their religious codes because they are only human. Another thing to point out is that some religions do not have moral codes but most major religions do. Most secular people such as myself will at least in part adhere to religious codes. However, this adherence is not as rigid as that of religous people. The adherence of religious people to their codes is also affected by their interpretations of that code. This can be a benefit to their morality because the Bible and the Koran have many barbaric tenets that many believers either are not aware of, ignore, explain away, or refuse to follow.

For practical reasons, I am generally defining what is good conduct and what is moral to be honesty, not stealing, not lying, not murdering, being compassionate, being fair, being nice to others, not raping, being tolerant, etc. One big issue is that religious people can only be moral if their religious codes are moral. If someone believes in a moral code that requires them to kill infidels, then that code does morality no good. However, the perceived religious codes that most people follow today are moral for the most part. There are some issues with tolerance and open mindedness. Most Christians believe that they should not steal, lie, kill, rape and they should obey the golden rule and be compassionate. This will cause them to be more moral than a person who does not believe in a Super-Dad who is watching everything they do. As a very general rule, religious people are more moral than secular people. There are many exceptions.

 

[Dan4reason]

I agree that with losing one's faith comes some existential crisis, but at least with my personal experience, I think I am now happier without religion than I would be with it.

Psychological studies have shown that religious people report being more happy than non-religious people on average. I learned that at college. This is only a general trend and there are definitely exceptions. You seem to be one of those who is good at dealing with a loss of faith.

I don't agree. I think I have a perfectly functional moral compass, sense of purpose, and general happiness independent of whatever might have been added by a belief in a "cosmic Santa."

No moral compass works perfectly and not every secular person really has one. I have met many secular people and even though some may have a moral compass as strong as that of a practicing religious person, there are also many who hardly have a moral compass or a direction. Many are quite egoistic and seek mainly to satisfy themselves. Most secular people fall in between these extremes.

I am sure you break your moral tenets on occasion. I know I do unfortunately. Religious people have more encouragement to stick to their principals.

 

[Autodidact]

I knew that claim would be contested eventually. Studies show that religious people are more happy than non-religious people. This is why people will have more depression. This will have to be dealt with but if we find ways to deal with it we may actually see more happiness. I find that when you believe that there a cosmic Santa Clause looking over your shoulder every day, you are more likely to do good turns and not do bad ones.

Yes but it is not the case that atheists commit more crimes than theists, quite the contrary. Also, some of the happiest nations on earth have a high level of atheism, such as Iceland and Norway.

 

[Dan4reason]

Show me the insult in my statement. You can't, your just bending under the pressure and spouting more nonsense.

Peace.

Right there!!! You did it again! Here is the insult, "Your very mind is proof of God, but your Consciousness is so blind of that, you, like most here, are spewing out nonsense everyday."

Here is another, "Thats a bunch of Atheist crap, you cannot use myths to support your presentation of facts."

Here is another, "Go hide behind yourself like all other Atheist do, your garbage will sprout nothing but waste."

Here is the one you said in your post above, "your just bending under the pressure and spouting more nonsense."

 

[Autodidact]

Dan: a little hint. Most of us just skip Mickiel's posts and especially his threads. Here to help.

 

[Autodidact]

Well, it's an interesting question. One can only speculate. An image that helps me visualize how people often act is the standing ovation after a performance. One person loved it and leaps to her feet. A few others see her, ask themselves if they liked it, decide they do, and stand up. Now people look around and see a few standees. The people who thought it was not bad stand up. Now you look around and see half of the people standing, so you join them, as do others. Finally the last person says, "Oh heck" and stands up. But if the first person had not stood up, that ovation might not have happened.

So a few brave atheists spoke up a hundred years ago, which got other people wondering and thinking...etc.

The more openness, the more communication, the more education, the more people question and feel comfortable questioning.

That and they're not currently burning us at the stake--at least not here in the U.S.

 

[no-body]

Right there!!! You did it again! Here is the insult, "Your very mind is proof of God, but your Consciousness is so blind of that, you, like most here, are spewing out nonsense everyday."

Here is another, "Thats a bunch of Atheist crap, you cannot use myths to support your presentation of facts."

Here is another, "Go hide behind yourself like all other Atheist do, your garbage will sprout nothing but waste."

Here is the one you said in your post above, "your just bending under the pressure and spouting more nonsense."

The trick is to visualize mikail how he acts. Would you get in a serious debate with kermit the frog or bugs bunny?

 

[mickiel]

Dan: a little hint. Most of us just skip Mickiel's posts and especially his threads. Here to help.

Here to help deceive, my post here are amoung the most viewed, and its mostly Atheist who view them.

Your statement is just fantasy.

Peace.

 

[darkendless]

Religious people are more likely to adhere to a religious code than non-religious people. Sometimes of course, religious people break their religious codes because they are only human. Another thing to point out is that some religions do not have moral codes but most major religions do. Most secular people such as myself will at least in part adhere to religious codes. However, this adherence is not as rigid as that of religous people. The adherence of religious people to their codes is also affected by their interpretations of that code. This can be a benefit to their morality because the Bible and the Koran have many barbaric tenets that many believers either are not aware of, ignore, explain away, or refuse to follow.

For practical reasons, I am generally defining what is good conduct and what is moral to be honesty, not stealing, not lying, not murdering, being compassionate, being fair, being nice to others, not raping, being tolerant, etc. One big issue is that religious people can only be moral if their religious codes are moral. If someone believes in a moral code that requires them to kill infidels, then that code does morality no good. However, the perceived religious codes that most people follow today are moral for the most part. There are some issues with tolerance and open mindedness. Most Christians believe that they should not steal, lie, kill, rape and they should obey the golden rule and be compassionate. This will cause them to be more moral than a person who does not believe in a Super-Dad who is watching everything they do. As a very general rule, religious people are more moral than secular people. There are many exceptions.

Yes, moral in their eyes. In the eyes of the non-religious community they may not be.

Most christians believe they should preach to others, thats not moral, thats disgusting and offensive.

Do you see what i mean? Just because religions have morals, it doesn't mean those morals are the best for humanity or society.

 

[Tiapan]

I think the internet will provide the mechanism for a decline in theism, as information culturally/traditionally banned, censored or hidden is now freely available to all and sunder, allowing better more informed realistic opinions on a broader base of facts, which no religion can withstand.

So the trend will continue, and in fact might I suggest, non-religion will grow exponentially. You can see the difference right here on RF Muslims from the rich west are generally far more flexible and moderate than those from hot poor middle east countries.for example one of my tutors is from Iraq, she says straight out the the hijab is a sign of faith like a nun wears a habit but the Burqua is a symptom of radical islam is therefore extremely dangerous. She is a very pleasant intelligent moderate Muslim.

Cheers

 

[jmvizanko]

Religious people have more encouragement to stick to their principals.

I disagree. I think that a person who realizes it is up to us to make the most of our limited existence is just as capable and bound to follow the ethical codes that they decide are right and good as somebody who thinks they might await punishment after death for not adhering to theirs. Plus, if you take Christianity for example, many believers think that despite whatever sins they commit, as long as they believe the right thing, they will still receive nothing but happiness and reward in the afterlife. How does that not take away from a believer's guilt at doing something wrong, and inclination to strive toward being as good as possible?

 

[jmvizanko]

You say this:

Psychological studies have shown that religious people report being more happy than non-religious people on average.

yet you say the following in your original post:

As people become more comfortable and rich, they have less of a need for a meaning beyond death and can enjoy this life more making religion less necessary.

If being more successful is more important to happiness than religion, then who is to say it is lack of religion that makes the unbelievers less happy? Who is to say that if people didn't start out atheists, instead of having to deal with the existential crisis of leaving a particular faith, that they wouldn't be just as happy if not more so? If one realizes that one's existence is all one has, I think that makes one's life that much more valuable, which makes doing it well and enjoying it to the fullest that much more important.

It would be interesting to see a study that finds out if unbelievers who never believed are more happy than those who had to get there by leaving a faith behind.

 

[Danny Heim]

The topic of this forum is about religious decline in and any particular aspects of this decline. This forum asks why religion is in decline and what are the implications of this decline.

This graph shows that religion is in decline in the US.

This Easter, Smaller Percentage of Americans Are Christian

This graph shows that religious affiliation is falling in the US.

Here are some related links.
In U.S., Increasing Number Have No Religious Identity
Religion Among the Millennials - Pew Forum on Religion & Public Life
Religion Most Important to Blacks, Women, and Older Americans
Statistics on Religion in America Report -- Pew Forum on Religion & Public Life
What Alabamians and Iranians Have in Common
File:Eurobarometer poll.png - Wikimedia Commons
Belief in God Far Lower in Western U.S.
File:Bsa-religion-question.svg - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

here are some facts about religion. Not only has religion been falling in the US but secularism is on the rise. The younger an American is, the less religious he is. The more educated an American is, this less religious she is. The richer an American is, the less religious she is. Men are more likely to be religious and so are minorities. One exception are the Asians who are less religious than white people. The US and Europe are less religious than average and this is a trend we see all over the industrialized world. Those nations that are poorer and less educated are far more likely to be religious. One notable exception is the US which is generally richer than Europe but is also more religious than it.

There are some reasons people are becoming less religious. First, as people become more educated, they are more likely to throw off faith-based superstitions. They learn to have better critical thinking skills and are exposed to a wider view of the world. As people become more comfortable and rich, they have less of a need for a meaning beyond death and can enjoy this life more making religion less necessary. A lack of a belief in religion can be a cultural thing but also a logical thing. A religious belief is bound to be more emotional and intuitional and a secular world view is more likely to be logical and fact-based.

As people become less religious there will probably be more crime and depression and society will have to deal with these problems in a different way that just superstition. Non-religious societies will be more scientific, logical, materialistic, and tolerant. Religious bigotry will wither with the withering of religion. These are my ideas. What are yours?

Thank you for that, very enlightening. I would never want to say education or money either one make one’s belief any greater than another. Whether that is religious or atheist or whatever. It does not say the poor have it wrong, the rich have it right. We simply don’t know much yet, collectively that is.