Religion and Transvestites.

[dust1n]

In Latin America, they were thought to have been god's mistakes.

Where do transvestites fit into your religion. Are they invited to practice? Would a transvestite be allowed in your place of worship?

 

[ChristineES]

I would welcome anyone where I worship and as a friend, but I can't say the same about the rest of the congregation. I don't know anything about transvestites except that I see them sometimes and that they are human beings, too (obviously, but...). I just don't judge people by what they do, but how kind they (each individual) are. Kindness and mercy go a long way.

 

[KatNotKathy]

Oddly enough I somehow only know one transvestite, but damn he can throw a good Rock Band party.

But seriously anybody bugged out by transvestites is just silly. We're all born naked, everything after that is drag.

 

[EverChanging]

UU is welcoming toward LGBT people, so I assume transvestites are welcome, too, although most are straight, and some people confuse being transgender/transsexual with being transvestite. They are not the same.

I am also involved in other spiritual circles, and for the most part, I think they would be welcoming, too, although people are unpredictable and can get weirded out about gender....In any case, I believe in being welcome to people regardless of what their gender identity is or what they where.

 

[Smoke]

some people confuse being transgender/transsexual with being transvestite. They are not the same.

That's what I was going to say.

 

[Aquitaine]

That's what I was going to say.

I actually thought Trans-sexual and Transvestite were the same thing? And that Trans-Gender is more of a psychological thing with personal identity etc.

I've tried talking with certain other members on RF about the destinctions of te phrases but I've never quite been able to grasp it all - what's the difference between a Trans-sexual and a Transvestite?

Actually wait, nevermind, I don't wanna derail the thread. As for the OP, well, I can't contribute 'cause I'm secular

 

[te_lanus]

I actually thought Trans-sexual and Transvestite were the same thing? And that Trans-Gender is more of a psychological thing with personal identity etc.

I've tried talking with certain other members on RF about the destinctions of te phrases but I've never quite been able to grasp it all - what's the difference between a Trans-sexual and a Transvestite?

Transsexual:

The word "transsexual" is most often used as an adjective rather than a noun - a "transexual person" rather than simply "a transexual". Transsexual people prefer to be referred to by the gender pronouns and terms associated with their target gender. For example, a transsexual man is a person who was assigned the female sex at birth on the basis of his genitals, but despite that assignment identifies as a man and is transitioning or has transitioned to a male gender role and has or will have a masculine body. Transsexual people are sometimes referred to with "assigned-to-target" sex terms such as "female-to-male" for a transsexual man or "male-to-female" for a transsexual woman. These terms may be abbreviated as "M2F", "F2M", "MTF", "F to M", etc. These terms are particularly helpful in preventing confusion, because to some people the term "transsexual woman" is a female transitioning to become a male, and to others a male transitioning to become a female. When the terms trans man and trans woman are used though, it is typical for them to be used to refer to the gender that the person identifies with, regardless of their appearance or state of transition.

Transvestite:

The clinical name for a crossdresser. A person who dresses in the clothing of the opposite sex. Generally, these persons do not wish to alter their biological gender. Being a transvestite does not specify the sexual preference of a person (e. g. being heterosexual or homosexual).

 

[te_lanus]

I Know from experience that Most churches here in Africa Does not accept TG/TV. I've been told numerous times that the Bible and God forbids it. They use Deut 22:5

22:5 The woman shall not wear that which pertaineth unto a man, neither shall a man put on a woman's garment: for all that do so are abomination unto the LORD thy God.

 

[zanzabar]

i'm transgender and it's definitely not the same as being a transvestite.

 

[kender]

I Know from experience that Most churches here in Africa Does not accept TG/TV. I've been told numerous times that the Bible and God forbids it. They use Deut 22:5

I am not trying to argue with you (because it sounds like this you are just presenting info), I am just presenting an argument that could be used to illustrate how people should think for themselves and not just blindly follow someone else's interpretation of the bible. From your post it just sounds as if your supplying info and not actually believing this yourself, so am I.

There are a few different ways to rebut a person who tries to use deut 22:5.

First is the easiest, pointing out how they themselves are hypocrites. Do they cut their hair or shave their beard which is against Leviticus. Later in Deut it states that you should stone a female for not being a virgin when she gets married. Deut also states that if a man finds a virgin that is not engaged and he "lays hold on her" and lies with her then he shall pay her father 50 shekels of silver and shall marry her. This is in the section of Deut that addresses rape. So basically if an un-engaged virgin is raped then the rapist pays the father 50 pieces of silver and she has to become his wife......yes force the rape victim to marry her rapist.

The second type of rebuttal is to discredit the passage all together. The book of deut is said to be Gods word to moses to be passed on to his followers. Some lines of history say that the book was altered by king josiah. Others believe it was written entirely by king josiah, and others believe it was the work of jews in exile. So even those that hold the bible as truth and its word as gospel can not agree where it comes from or who changed it. So how can they be certain that the translation from original language to modern language can be correct and that the interpretation of that translation could even be close to accurate.

Lastly there is the logical thought process. Let's assume that moses was the source of deut. In all the illustrations of moses what does he wear???? Long ankle length robes. What do the women from biblical times wear in illustrations????? Long ankle length robes. So a man wearing women's clothes would change from his robes to hers???? where is the difference. Anything edited after an oracle of God reveals it is man induced and can be motivated by other than pure motives.

As for what I believe, people are people. There are basic rules that are universal, don't murder/rape/steal, treat others with fairness, race/sex have no place in how you apply these basic rules. Other than this the rest of your actions and how you live is shades of gray. You can spend every sunday in church or never attend church in your life. You can give to the poor or keep for yourself. These only change the degree of goodness you have in you, it's the primary rules that decide good or evil. If your a rapist it doesn't matter how many orphans you saved or how much you memorized the bible....you're still an evil person.

Wear whatever clothes you want, refer to yourself in as the opposite gender.....you're not hurting anyone and you follow the basic rules, I'll see you in heaven.

 

[Rachieb88]

'I would welcome anyone where I worship and as a friend' I completely agree - I mean, they probably look at me and think.. errr what is she wearing?!

 

[LuisDantas]

Transexuals and travestites are simply people like anyone else, as far as Buddhist practice is concerned. I don't believe any of the practice centers and groups that I have met would object to them. There could be some dilemmas with arrangements for gender-segregated practices, however.

I've heard tales about specific centers whose heads don't welcome homosexuals as well. But I don't know for sure, and I certainly don't support that. I must assume that they won't accept transexuals or travestites either.

 

[Storm]

My congregation has a handful of transgendered people. No one cares.

 

[LuisDantas]

"UU congregation fails to care about transgenders! Details at nine."

Sorry, I couldn't help it.

 

[Storm]

Lol.

 

[painted wolf]

Naturally it varies from nation to nation but in general Transgendered people were not shunned by First Nations people. Indeed in some nations they were considered a necessary part of the nations spiritual lives as they unite both male and female roles.

Most of the time though, they are simply accepted as they are and are not sanctioned against in any way. After all, they are what Creator made them to be.

In some nations they are classed as their own gender entirely. (I believe it's the Navajo who have eight gender markers in their culture/language)

In other nations Transvestism was a mark of holiness... taken as part of some societies taboo, to divorce themselves from the masculine warriors role to fight and possibly kill in defense of the nation.
In others it was the mark of a holy persons seeking to tip convention on it's ear.

In yet others it was required for a woman who wanted to participate in the active defense of her nation to wear the clothing of a man to engage in masculine activities.

Gender and gender roles are more flexible in indigenous peoples than in Western society.

wa:do