1. Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Featured Reincarnation

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by Snow White, Nov 17, 2022.

  1. Snow White

    Snow White Veteran Member

    Joined:
    May 2, 2019
    Messages:
    16,311
    Ratings:
    +13,390
    Religion:
    Spiritual
    Asking a question based on a subject which seems to have come up in another thread, my question is....

    Does reincarnation necessarily imply an improvement across the person's various different lives?

    If yes, when you speak of "improvement", could you define what it is in this particular context?
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Useful Useful x 1
  2. The Hammer

    The Hammer Wyrd Wide Web
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    May 24, 2009
    Messages:
    15,464
    Ratings:
    +20,879
    Religion:
    Druid
    No, you can improve or get worse imo.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  3. beenherebeforeagain

    beenherebeforeagain Rogue Animist
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2011
    Messages:
    23,088
    Ratings:
    +9,294
    Religion:
    Modern Animist
    "improving" can really only be defined in relation to some sort of target or goal...various systems of belief about reincarnation/transmigration/whatever you want to call it have different ideas about the target or goal of the process...

    but as @The Hammer suggests, I agree that one can make progress or regress...or just hold even...
     
    • Like Like x 2
  4. The Sum of Awe

    The Sum of Awe Brought to you by the moment that spacetime began.

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2011
    Messages:
    15,480
    Ratings:
    +2,665
    Religion:
    This is all actually happening. What the heck???
    I'd like to believe with each passing life we becoming more disillusioned and less attached to the identity of self and material world. But at the same time I'd like to believe everything will be happy ever after - rainbows, unicorns, and bunnies. Fact is karma is omnipresent and will affect us all. There's no escaping pain.
     
  5. idea

    idea Question Everything

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2008
    Messages:
    6,959
    Ratings:
    +1,234
    Religion:
    spiritual, not religious
    The human population recently hit 8B. Does that mean previous ants, birds, animals have now progressed to being humans? If humans are a higher life form that is?
     
    • Like Like x 1
  6. The Sum of Awe

    The Sum of Awe Brought to you by the moment that spacetime began.

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2011
    Messages:
    15,480
    Ratings:
    +2,665
    Religion:
    This is all actually happening. What the heck???
    I'd much rather be a bird, I think.
     
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
  7. Quintessence

    Quintessence Tale Weaver
    Staff Member Premium Member

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2011
    Messages:
    21,751
    Ratings:
    +16,516
    Religion:
    Druidry
    If by "improvement" we mean sustaining the Great Cycle, I suppose so. If the Great Cycle ends, so does the reality, the universe, and everything.

    It is very much not about individual egos, which do not exist without the whole. There is no thread without the tapestry of which it is a part.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  8. George-ananda

    George-ananda Advaita Vedanta, Theosophy, Spiritualism
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2012
    Messages:
    16,281
    Ratings:
    +6,322
    Religion:
    Advaita and Spiritualist and Pantheist
    Not neccesarily, but usually 'yes'.
    More loving and detachment from physical circumstances.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  9. Brian2

    Brian2 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2020
    Messages:
    8,239
    Ratings:
    +1,842
    Religion:
    Christian
    It's interesting to think that a force is keeping a tab on our actions and motives, ready to reward or pay back in a negative way.
    In Christianity to judge is God, the one who sees and knows and can forgive is He wants to. So there is escaping pain.
     
  10. Brian2

    Brian2 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2020
    Messages:
    8,239
    Ratings:
    +1,842
    Religion:
    Christian
    I wonder if a bird is higher or lower?
    Is it even possible for a bird to do good or evil to be rewarded or punished?
     
    • Like Like x 1
  11. Hermit Philosopher

    Hermit Philosopher Selflessly here for you

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2010
    Messages:
    1,185
    Ratings:
    +1,055
    I think that, if we speak of the constant reincarnation of what sometimes is called “universal” or “divine” consciousness, through the experience of physical life, then yes; it makes sense that It would constantly be evolving towards a greater [better], more complete understanding of what it’s like to “be”.

    Humbly,
    Hermit
     
  12. Vinayaka

    Vinayaka devotee
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2011
    Messages:
    36,075
    Ratings:
    +22,055
    Religion:
    Saivite Hindu
    Just as life has its ups and downs, so does the long sojourn back to God. On the longer grand scale, yes there is improvement, as the end for all souls without exception is moksha. So it's like climate a change graph, where from year to year its varies, but if you look at it over 100 years, there is a pattern.
     
    • Useful Useful x 1
  13. idea

    idea Question Everything

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2008
    Messages:
    6,959
    Ratings:
    +1,234
    Religion:
    spiritual, not religious
    If current life forms represent the pinnacle of previous innumerable lives and lessons, the most numerous life form on earth isn't a bird ;)

    Tailed phages are a kind of bacteriophage— viruses that infect bacteria. They are the most abundant organism on Earth, with an estimated 10^31 particles in our biosphere..
     
  14. nPeace

    nPeace Veteran Member

    Joined:
    May 31, 2018
    Messages:
    11,800
    Ratings:
    +3,353
    Religion:
    Follower of Christ
    I am answering from an understanding of what Reincarnation is, and not what I believe, since Reincarnation is not a true teaching of Christianity, and falls into the category with other false doctrines.

    Reincarnation does not necessarily imply an improvement across the person's various different lives, since according to the teaching of reincarnation, a person's life course determines the life they will be reincarnated.
    So, say the person does not live "well enough", when they die, according to the teaching, they will be reincarnated as a lesser life, which means if they are reincarnated as a giraffe, they wil die as a giraffe, and if they are a giraffe that is "gentle", they may return as a... I don't know... but say they did return as a human again...

    As you can see, it's a cycle of progress and regress.
    If it's all progress, however, one must ask the question... What does that lead to?
    Imagine getting a soul that has reached a perfect state, but you die, everytime, to return and get that soul, again... and again... and again...

    How does that make sense?
    I guess it's not supposed to make sence, since it's undirected.
    I think the belief was based on man's idea that everything must be a cycle.

    Indian philosophers formulated an elaborate belief system around a cycle of rebirths based on the law of cause and effect, or Karma.

    REINCARNATION: Many view existence as an endless cycle of life, death, and rebirth. They believe that the good or bad they experience now is the result of events in a previous life.

    One Hindu who believed this, said...
    “The teaching of reincarnation did not make sense to me. Animals do not worship, so if for some reason you are reincarnated into an animal to pay for your sins, how do you rectify matters and progress from that state?” - A former Hindu in South Africa



     
  15. nPeace

    nPeace Veteran Member

    Joined:
    May 31, 2018
    Messages:
    11,800
    Ratings:
    +3,353
    Religion:
    Follower of Christ
    I should say though, that if the soul - according to the teaching - is immortal, and "pure", then according to the teaching, reincarnation necessarily imply an improvement across the person's various different lives. Since the person the soul inhabits, can never regress in their behavior and actions... according to the teaching.
    The immortal soul being perfected will not regress... as I understand it.
     
    #15 nPeace, Nov 18, 2022
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2022
  16. stvdv

    stvdv Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2018
    Messages:
    17,218
    Ratings:
    +10,382
    Religion:
    Sanathana Dharma [The Eternal Religion]
    One reincarnates until one is freed from attachment to maya

    Some people are very attached to sex, so they will reincarnate to have lots of sex until they have had enough. Those who love sex will call this an improvement, but it could also mean you become a sex slave etc.

    To become free from attachment to maya, starts by purifying one's senses, being a Master of the senses, meaning you don't think with your sex organs, but you use them for the purpose they are made for. Same for the other senses

    On the other hand, when you are born you have forgotten all about past lives, you don't have vivid clear memory about it, with feelings etc. So, why to worry about future lives (reincarnation)? So, also no need to worry about improvement in this live, unless improvement in this life means being more happy in this life, then it makes sense to do your best to improve in this life.

    Maybe it's best to follow your conscience. Your conscience will guide you step by step what best to do. No need to know about reincarnation.
     
  17. stvdv

    stvdv Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2018
    Messages:
    17,218
    Ratings:
    +10,382
    Religion:
    Sanathana Dharma [The Eternal Religion]
    Clearly you have no clue about Reincarnation
     
  18. nPeace

    nPeace Veteran Member

    Joined:
    May 31, 2018
    Messages:
    11,800
    Ratings:
    +3,353
    Religion:
    Follower of Christ
    According to your belief, but are you correct?
    I'd be happy to hear your beliefs on reincarnation.
    Remember, not all Hindus or Indians believe the same thing about a teaching.
    Right or wrong?

    Is it a confusing belief, would you say? Are there any contradictions?
     
  19. stvdv

    stvdv Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2018
    Messages:
    17,218
    Ratings:
    +10,382
    Religion:
    Sanathana Dharma [The Eternal Religion]
    IF someone claims doctrines other than their own false
    THEN this tells me enough to not answer these questions
     
  20. nPeace

    nPeace Veteran Member

    Joined:
    May 31, 2018
    Messages:
    11,800
    Ratings:
    +3,353
    Religion:
    Follower of Christ
    I figured that would be the response, stvdv.
    Come on. I've known you long enough to have worked that out. :)
     
Loading...