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Redistribution of Wealth
- Thread starter Fool
- Start date
BSM1
What? Me worry?
Republican Overlords, huh? That's precious. "I will obey...I will obey...." Thanks for the laugh.
BSM1
What? Me worry?
Sooo...you've met most Republicans, have you?
Jeremiah Ames
Well-Known Member
Wow, great point.
Jeremiah Ames
Well-Known Member
But the government prints all the money for the richest Americans only. The country is 20 trillion dollars in debt.
Where did it go?
All the many millions of poor and middle class own a tiny portion of the country’s wealth. So who has it?
It makes sense to me that the Christian savior would not want people to starve to death just so some relatively few rich people could horde more wealth than they need. It also makes sense to me that many Christians would indeed choose to favor some relatively few rich people over millions of poor people, despite their professed allegiance to their savior.
Jesus's parable of the Rich Man and Lazarus comes to mind:
Luke 16:19-31New Revised Standard Version (NRSV)
The Rich Man and Lazarus
The Pharisees, who were lovers of money, heard all this, and they ridiculed him. So he said to them, “You are those who justify yourselves in the sight of others; but God knows your hearts; for what is prized by human beings is an abomination in the sight of God...
19 “There was a rich man who was dressed in purple and fine linen and who feasted sumptuously every day. 20 And at his gate lay a poor man named Lazarus, covered with sores, 21 who longed to satisfy his hunger with what fell from the rich man’s table; even the dogs would come and lick his sores. 22 The poor man died and was carried away by the angels to be with Abraham.
The rich man also died and was buried. 23 In Hades, where he was being tormented, he looked up and saw Abraham far away with Lazarus by his side. 24 He called out, ‘Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue; for I am in agony in these flames.’ 25 But Abraham said, ‘Child, remember that during your lifetime you received your good things, and Lazarus in like manner evil things; but now he is comforted here, and you are in agony. 26 Besides all this, between you and us a great chasm has been fixed, so that those who might want to pass from here to you cannot do so, and no one can cross from there to us.’
27 He said, ‘Then, father, I beg you to send him to my father’s house— 28 for I have five brothers—that he may warn them, so that they will not also come into this place of torment.’ 29 Abraham replied, ‘They have Moses and the prophets; they should listen to them.’ 30 He said, ‘No, father Abraham; but if someone goes to them from the dead, they will repent.’ 31 He said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the prophets, neither will they be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.’”
It has always struck me as a very Dickensian tale, a bit like A Christmas Carol. Apparently, not without good justification....The Rich Man and Lazarus
The Pharisees, who were lovers of money, heard all this, and they ridiculed him. So he said to them, “You are those who justify yourselves in the sight of others; but God knows your hearts; for what is prized by human beings is an abomination in the sight of God...
19 “There was a rich man who was dressed in purple and fine linen and who feasted sumptuously every day. 20 And at his gate lay a poor man named Lazarus, covered with sores, 21 who longed to satisfy his hunger with what fell from the rich man’s table; even the dogs would come and lick his sores. 22 The poor man died and was carried away by the angels to be with Abraham.
The rich man also died and was buried. 23 In Hades, where he was being tormented, he looked up and saw Abraham far away with Lazarus by his side. 24 He called out, ‘Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue; for I am in agony in these flames.’ 25 But Abraham said, ‘Child, remember that during your lifetime you received your good things, and Lazarus in like manner evil things; but now he is comforted here, and you are in agony. 26 Besides all this, between you and us a great chasm has been fixed, so that those who might want to pass from here to you cannot do so, and no one can cross from there to us.’
27 He said, ‘Then, father, I beg you to send him to my father’s house— 28 for I have five brothers—that he may warn them, so that they will not also come into this place of torment.’ 29 Abraham replied, ‘They have Moses and the prophets; they should listen to them.’ 30 He said, ‘No, father Abraham; but if someone goes to them from the dead, they will repent.’ 31 He said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the prophets, neither will they be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.’”
Rich man and Lazarus - Wikipedia
References to Dives and Lazarus are a frequent image in socially conscious fiction of the Victorian period.[45] For example:
"workers and masters are separate as Dives and Lazarus" "ay, as separate as Dives and Lazarus, with a great gulf betwixt" (Elizabeth Gaskell; Mary Barton a tale of Manchester life 1848)
"Between them, and a working woman full of faults, there is a deep gulf set." (Charles Dickens; Hard Times 1854)
Although Dickens' A Christmas Carol and The Chimes do not make any direct reference to the story, the introduction to the Oxford edition of the Christmas Books does.[46]
Even better is this quotation by the Church Father Origen from the non-canonical but early Gospel of the Hebrews, which had an expanded variant of the famous narrative about Jesus and the rich young ruler:"workers and masters are separate as Dives and Lazarus" "ay, as separate as Dives and Lazarus, with a great gulf betwixt" (Elizabeth Gaskell; Mary Barton a tale of Manchester life 1848)
"Between them, and a working woman full of faults, there is a deep gulf set." (Charles Dickens; Hard Times 1854)
Although Dickens' A Christmas Carol and The Chimes do not make any direct reference to the story, the introduction to the Oxford edition of the Christmas Books does.[46]
"...It is written in a certain gospel, which is called according to the Hebrews, if yet it pleases one to accept it:
The second of the rich men said to Him, "Master, what good thing can I do and live?" He said to Him, "O man, do that which is in the Law and the Prophets." He answered Him, "I have did them." He said to Him, "Go, sell all that you own and distribute it to the poor, and come follow me." But the rich man began to scratch his head, and it pleased him not. And the Lord said to Him, "How can you say: 'I have kept the law and the prophets'? For it is written in the law: 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself.' And behold, many of your brothers - sons of Abraham - are clad in filth, dying of hunger, and your house is full of many good things, and nothing at all goes out of it to them." And he turned and said to Simon His disciple, who was sitting by Him, "Simon, son of John, it is easier for a camel to go in through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of heaven."..."
- Origen, Commentary on Matthew 15:4
The second of the rich men said to Him, "Master, what good thing can I do and live?" He said to Him, "O man, do that which is in the Law and the Prophets." He answered Him, "I have did them." He said to Him, "Go, sell all that you own and distribute it to the poor, and come follow me." But the rich man began to scratch his head, and it pleased him not. And the Lord said to Him, "How can you say: 'I have kept the law and the prophets'? For it is written in the law: 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself.' And behold, many of your brothers - sons of Abraham - are clad in filth, dying of hunger, and your house is full of many good things, and nothing at all goes out of it to them." And he turned and said to Simon His disciple, who was sitting by Him, "Simon, son of John, it is easier for a camel to go in through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of heaven."..."
- Origen, Commentary on Matthew 15:4
See:
Gospel of the Hebrews - Wikipedia
The Gospel of the Hebrews (Greek: τὸ καθ' Ἑβραίους εὐαγγέλιον), or Gospel according to the Hebrews, was a syncretic Jewish–Christian gospel, the text of which is lost; only fragments of it survive as brief quotations by the early Church Fathers and in apocryphal writings. The fragments contain traditions of Jesus' pre-existence, incarnation, baptism, and probable temptation, along with some of his sayings.
Passages from the gospel were quoted or summarized by three Alexandrian Fathers – Clement, Origen and Didymus the Blind; it was also quoted by Jerome, either directly or through the commentaries of Origen.[6][7]The gospel was used as a supplement to the canonical gospels to provide source material for their commentaries based on scripture.[8] Eusebius included it in his list of disputed writings known as the Antilegomena, noting that it was used by "Hebrews" within the Church; it fell out of use when the New Testament canon was codified at the end of the 4th century
Passages from the gospel were quoted or summarized by three Alexandrian Fathers – Clement, Origen and Didymus the Blind; it was also quoted by Jerome, either directly or through the commentaries of Origen.[6][7]The gospel was used as a supplement to the canonical gospels to provide source material for their commentaries based on scripture.[8] Eusebius included it in his list of disputed writings known as the Antilegomena, noting that it was used by "Hebrews" within the Church; it fell out of use when the New Testament canon was codified at the end of the 4th century
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Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber
Jesus and his disciples lived communally. The early Christians themselves lived in communes. Commune being the "root word" of "little c" communism (it's actually goes far beyond just Marx or Stalin, much like how Christianity isn't summed up as whole by Catholicism or Baptists or Methodists).Yes Jesus was all about that Holodomor - Wikipedia.
So long as it's voluntary I am fine with it. But Communism is not known in the 20th century as so family friendly.
1robin
Christian/Baptist
What is this supposed to be? It is not a discussion about charity. I never said anything about who Jesus knew or didn't. You aren't explaining why you think any of this is true, and worst of all your not explaining why even if it was true why its relevant. I have no idea what your trying to show is true, or what your trying to show is false.
1robin
Christian/Baptist
There is no hermeneutic or exegetical errors in any of the verses I supplied. Look them up yourself in their original language at the following sight: Bible Hub: Search, Read, Study the Bible in Many Languages
However I predict you will not look any of them up because:
1. You obviously do not do your homework concerning understanding the bible. Actual knowledge takes time and effort, whining about false accusations only requires the ability to type.
2. And you already know that sight will show the verses I posted matched the original language used by their authors.
3. The bible (NT especially) is so saturated with commands about charity and self sacrifice you can't possibly allow to speak for it's self.
If there is any selective interpretation it's on your side. Those are simplistic and emphatically consistent verses which completely contradict your original position. However, if you won't listen to God how about some of the greatest wordsmith's in history.
"The character of Jesus has not only been the highest pattern of virtue, but the strongest incentive to its practice, and has exerted so deep an influence, that it may be truly said, that the simple record of three short years of active life has done more to regenerate and to soften mankind, than all the disquisitions of philosophers and than all the exhortations of moralists."
William Lecky One of Britain’s greatest secular historians.
He was the meekest and lowliest of all the sons of men, yet he spoke of coming on the clouds of heaven with the glory of God. He was so austere that evil spirits and demons cried out in terror at his coming, yet he was so genial and winsome and approachable that the children loved to play with him, and the little ones nestled in his arms. His presence at the innocent gaiety of a village wedding was like the presence of sunshine.
No one was half so compassionate to sinners, yet no one ever spoke such red hot scorching words about sin. A bruised reed he would not break, his whole life was love, yet on one occasion he demanded of the Pharisees how they ever expected to escape the damnation of hell. He was a dreamer of dreams and a seer of visions, yet for sheer stark realism He has all of our stark realists soundly beaten. He was a servant of all, washing the disciples feet, yet masterfully He strode into the temple, and the hucksters and moneychangers fell over one another to get away from the mad rush and the fire they saw blazing in His eyes.
He saved others, yet at the last Himself He did not save. There is nothing in history like the union of contrasts which confronts us in the gospels. The mystery of Jesus is the mystery of divine personality.
Scottish Theologian James Stuart
BSM1
What? Me worry?
1robin
Christian/Baptist
Ok, one last piece of evidence and then you can go back to trolling others or which ever denial fest it was that you came from.
Conservative Christians make up the most generous demographic on earth.
We are done here.
it's relevant because truth cannot be plural. if there is a truth then it's not personal, or prejudicial, based on the language, the culture, that conveys it. it would be inherent to all cultures, peoples, and languages. the form is inconsequential.
Or that they claim to be speaking for Republican overlords but they're actually speaking for Christ.
Yeah, I get confused over this all the time.
Kelly of the Phoenix
Well-Known Member
Generous to whom? Those pastors' airplanes and mansions don't fund themselves.
Jesus told only that one person to do that, because it seemed to be the one thing that was keeping him from making a commitment....it was his stumbling block. (What did Jesus say about something that causes you to stumble? To "Throw it away.")
But were there materially rich Christians? Yes, apparently. And that was OK, (1 Timothy 6:17-19) as long as they didn't begin to love money more than Jesus.