Reconsidering Non-theism

[RedDragon94]

You appear to be well trained on a short leash like the wisdom story from India about the elephant held by a thread.

Maybe, they may just want to save my soul from what they think will be impending doom. I understand Christianity, I just consider my experience to be the test of everything.

 

[shunyadragon]

I think natural laws are set in stone but cultural standards are obviously fluid.

I would not considered Natural Laws to be set in stone, but they are more well grounded in reality than the diverse conflicting cultural and religious standards, which only relate relatively within one cultural paradigm.

 

[viole]

I am an existentialist of sorts. And from what I've experienced, I've got some questions about the supernatural.

I don't feel like going into the specific events (let's just say a minister was involved in my life and mishandled me). That's part of the reason why I'm back at this. The second reason why I'm probably an atheist is because I've been meditating off and on for years and I am not having spiritual experiences really. I've got a theory of what God might be from meditation, but like Odin or Hecate or the Loa have never called out to me really. Don't get me wrong, I like to meditate, but I'm kind of expecting more from it at this point.

I guess I'm wondering if the Bible is as true as it claims to be and God really takes away sin through Jesus' sacrifice, why do Christians still sin?

Also, if the Bible is true then why are there virtually no legitimate miracles coming out of Christian churches?

Anybody can join this conversation.

Thanks.

Verily, I say to you : There is no God, and viole is His prophet.

So, relax and enjoy this free dinner we call life. And do not get too greedy by expecting more than that.

Ciao

- viole

 

[sealchan]

I am an existentialist of sorts. And from what I've experienced, I've got some questions about the supernatural.

I don't feel like going into the specific events (let's just say a minister was involved in my life and mishandled me). That's part of the reason why I'm back at this. The second reason why I'm probably an atheist is because I've been meditating off and on for years and I am not having spiritual experiences really. I've got a theory of what God might be from meditation, but like Odin or Hecate or the Loa have never called out to me really. Don't get me wrong, I like to meditate, but I'm kind of expecting more from it at this point.

I guess I'm wondering if the Bible is as true as it claims to be and God really takes away sin through Jesus' sacrifice, why do Christians still sin?

Also, if the Bible is true then why are there virtually no legitimate miracles coming out of Christian churches?

Anybody can join this conversation.

Thanks.

I think that what has been presented in the past as miracles are often elaborated stories and faith-based (optimistic) interpretations of witnessed events. However, I try not to contradict anyone's personal experience in this regard because of the sensitivity surrounding such beliefs in most cases.

IMO if you really want to see where the rubber of spiritual experience meets the road of practical experience then you will need to start attending to your dreams. That is by far the most direct and sincere way to get at one's own spiritual character.

 

[RedDragon94]

Verily, I say to you : There is no God, and viole is His prophet.

So, relax and enjoy this free dinner we call life. And do not get too greedy by expecting more than that.

Ciao

- viole

LMNOkay thanks.

 

[RedDragon94]

IMO if you really want to see where the rubber of spiritual experience meets the road of practical experience then you will need to start attending to your dreams. That is by far the most direct and sincere way to get at one's own spiritual character.

I don't dream. By the way, I have read new age material before to where that is the exact advice given. Where did you pick up your beliefs about dreams?

 

[Enoch07]

Yes, but if I asked an all-powerful, all-good being to take away my sin and the capacity for it and it's in line with his desires why do I still sin?

The only way to take away the capacity to sin is to no longer be alive.

 

[sealchan]

I don't dream. By the way, I have read new age material before to where that is the exact advice given. Where did you pick up your beliefs about dreams?

By studying the works of Carl Jung and Joseph Campbell and tracking my own dreams at various times during my life. I have even participated on a private online forum with three others who did dream work for a couple of years. I've recorded, read and interpreted many dreams.

Jung and Campbell are common influences among the new age writers. I tend not to enjoy the new age writers but I do enjoy the more "serious" scholars that are their inspiration.

Freud, Jung's mentor, was the first to famously claim the importance of dreams to human psychology:

Freud: "“The interpretation of dreams is the royal road to a knowledge of the unconscious activities of the mind."

Jung and Campbell (inspired by Jung) argue that myth and ritual are of a kind with dream experiences and likely were often inspired by dream content. Religion is a sort of institutionalization of dream-myth which tends to kill spiritual meaning and remove the individual from a more direct spiritual experience.

 

[Twilight Hue]

I am an existentialist of sorts. And from what I've experienced, I've got some questions about the supernatural.

I don't feel like going into the specific events (let's just say a minister was involved in my life and mishandled me). That's part of the reason why I'm back at this. The second reason why I'm probably an atheist is because I've been meditating off and on for years and I am not having spiritual experiences really. I've got a theory of what God might be from meditation, but like Odin or Hecate or the Loa have never called out to me really. Don't get me wrong, I like to meditate, but I'm kind of expecting more from it at this point.

I guess I'm wondering if the Bible is as true as it claims to be and God really takes away sin through Jesus' sacrifice, why do Christians still sin?

Also, if the Bible is true then why are there virtually no legitimate miracles coming out of Christian churches?

Anybody can join this conversation.

Thanks.

What better truth is there then what's actually going on around you?

 

[tayla]

What's the best argument against it in your opinion?

Inspiration, infallibility, and inerrancy are required or Christianity collapses. Science, archaeology, and the contradictions and fictional "truths" of the Bible collide with these.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

The culture of Christianity is something I am very used to, my parents expect me to go to church. I'll probably have to make it look like I'm going still.

Well...if you have to go, or decide that the cost of leaving is not worth the benefit, I'd say take it for what it is...a learning experience.
I generally learn something from my church visits. Sometimes it's even what the priest intends...
But human nature as it pertains to belief and group psychology is pretty fascinating. And you can always learn about yourself.

I just draw lines on my own actions (personally I don't pray or sing hymns, but I'm happy enough to stand and sit at the required intervals).

 

[Dell]

I am an existentialist of sorts. And from what I've experienced, I've got some questions about the supernatural.

I don't feel like going into the specific events (let's just say a minister was involved in my life and mishandled me). That's part of the reason why I'm back at this. The second reason why I'm probably an atheist is because I've been meditating off and on for years and I am not having spiritual experiences really. I've got a theory of what God might be from meditation, but like Odin or Hecate or the Loa have never called out to me really. Don't get me wrong, I like to meditate, but I'm kind of expecting more from it at this point.

I guess I'm wondering if the Bible is as true as it claims to be and God really takes away sin through Jesus' sacrifice, why do Christians still sin?

Also, if the Bible is true then why are there virtually no legitimate miracles coming out of Christian churches?

Anybody can join this conversation.

Thanks.

Christians will answer that the reborn spirit of a man is saved but the sinful nature man will continue till death. A Christian is to take on the new nature of godliness, train himself to restrain the sinful old nature. God will join that reborn spirit to a new body at the resurrection when Jesus returns, known as the second coming.

As far as miracles are concerned, miracles dont exist, laws of physics do. So what is physically possible is true reality... Like a resurrection of the body from the grave in a twinking of an eye... really? Sounds good on paper and in speeches but its physically impossible. Again like a literal 6 day creation... sounds good but no bueno. Even an omnipresent, omnipotent, Omniscient God would be a "miracle" since its physically impossible for it to exist. Christianity places a lot of faith in miracles and faith in ancient scriptures which have molded a God to be above all reality and loves you, and wants not to damn you because your a sinful worm.

 

[InChrist]

The only way to take away the capacity to sin is to no longer be alive.

Or remember, as a born again believer one is dead to sin...
In the same way, count yourselves dead to sin but alive to God in Christ Jesus. Romans 6:11

Doesn't mean a life of never sinning, but does provide a new reality and the power and freedom to turn from sin and live in Christ.

 

[InChrist]

I guess I'm wondering if the Bible is as true as it claims to be and God really takes away sin through Jesus' sacrifice, why do Christians still sin?

Also, if the Bible is true then why are there virtually no legitimate miracles coming out of Christian churches?

Anybody can join this conversation.

Thanks.

I would say that Christians still sin because they are living in the flesh and not in their new identity in Christ. I believe God's desire with each person is on-going relationship. Relationship takes interaction, but if a Christian neglects their relationship with God and just lives in this world by their own strength they will sin like anyone else. There is a battle going on between a believer's flesh and the spirit during this life on earth.

From my reading of the scriptures, I see that miracles have a purpose and are not merely for show. The miracles occurred primarily to validate the deity of Jesus Christ while He was on earth and for the spread of the gospel as the apostles shared. Now we have the scriptures and Jesus has accomplished His mission in coming to earth and going to the cross and the gospel is readily available in most places where there are and have been churches. God, of course can and may still do miracles and in many countries closed to the gospel He still does.

 

[syo]

Also, if the Bible is true then why are there virtually no legitimate miracles coming out of Christian churches?

You don't know the orthodox christians. Their saints do numerous miracles.

 

[RedDragon94]

By studying the works of Carl Jung and Joseph Campbell and tracking my own dreams at various times during my life. I have even participated on a private online forum with three others who did dream work for a couple of years. I've recorded, read and interpreted many dreams.

Jung and Campbell are common influences among the new age writers. I tend not to enjoy the new age writers but I do enjoy the more "serious" scholars that are their inspiration.

Freud, Jung's mentor, was the first to famously claim the importance of dreams to human psychology:

Freud: "“The interpretation of dreams is the royal road to a knowledge of the unconscious activities of the mind."

Jung and Campbell (inspired by Jung) argue that myth and ritual are of a kind with dream experiences and likely were often inspired by dream content. Religion is a sort of institutionalization of dream-myth which tends to kill spiritual meaning and remove the individual from a more direct spiritual experience.

That is pretty fascinating.

 

[RedDragon94]

You don't know the orthodox christians. Their saints do numerous miracles.

Orthodox as in Eastern?

 

[RedDragon94]

I would say that Christians still sin because they are living in the flesh and not in their new identity in Christ. I believe God's desire with each person is on-going relationship. Relationship takes interaction, but if a Christian neglects their relationship with God and just lives in this world by their own strength they will sin like anyone else. There is a battle going on between a believer's flesh and the spirit during this life on earth.

Is that battle won or lost based on what a Christian does?

 

[RedDragon94]

Well...if you have to go, or decide that the cost of leaving is not worth the benefit, I'd say take it for what it is...a learning experience.
I generally learn something from my church visits. Sometimes it's even what the priest intends...
But human nature as it pertains to belief and group psychology is pretty fascinating. And you can always learn about yourself.

I just draw lines on my own actions (personally I don't pray or sing hymns, but I'm happy enough to stand and sit at the required intervals).

Do what you feel is right. That's all anyone can ask for.

 

[RedDragon94]

Inspiration, infallibility, and inerrancy are required or Christianity collapses. Science, archaeology, and the contradictions and fictional "truths" of the Bible collide with these.

What about the liberal & neo orthodox theologians?