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Featured Receiving the Mark of the Beast.

Discussion in 'Scriptural Debates' started by Desert Snake, Sep 8, 2018.

  1. Faithofchristian

    Faithofchristian Well-Known Member

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    Notice in Revelation 17:10 there are 7 Kings, and one of those 7 Kings is not yet come, but when he does come, he will continue a short Space.

    Now to find out who this King is that has a short Space, Go back to Revelation 12:12,
    Here you will find the Devil has a short time.
    Do you see what Christ Jesus is doing,
    Christ Jesus is giving you words like
    A short Space and short time. To show the king in Revelation 17:10 and the Devil in Revelation 12:12 are one and the same person.
    Do you see that.
     
  2. 2ndpillar

    2ndpillar Well-Known Member

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    New American Standard Bible Revelation 17:10

    and they are seven kings; five have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come; and when he comes, he must remain a little while.

    The "remain a little while" refers to the 7th head of the beast, who is dead, and not the 8th head of the beast, and the beast of Revelation 17:8, who "was and is not" at the time of the 6th head of the beast, therefore he had to be the 5th or earlier head of the beast. Who is that head/king/beast? As for the "dragon"/devil, he gives his authority to all the heads of the beast (Revelation 13:4).


    The "devil" the "ruler of the world" has already come (John 14:30) and tempted Yeshua in the wilderness. As for Revelation 12, the dragon has already pursued the "woman" who gave birth to the "male child" who is to "rule all the nation" into to the wilderness for a time, times, and half a time, and the pursuing Roman solders, like a river, were swallow up by the wilderness.
     
  3. OtherSheep

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    Which means it's not a king that gets wounded, it's a nation.

    Rev.13:3 And I saw one of its heads as slain to death, and its deadly stroke was healed, and all the earth did wonder after the beast,

    Which of those 7 nations came back from being wounded to death?
    How many nations can say that has happened to them, actually?
     
  4. OtherSheep

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    Agreed. But the Beast isn't Satan, because the Beast is a confederacy of nations. The Beast along with the false prophet, get tossed in to the lake of brimstone, but Satan is taken straight to the pit.

    And since a star which fell from heaven is seen holding the key to the pit from whence he summons the locusts which look like men and have something that looks like crowns on their heads... isn't that where the 10 kings/horns of power come from? Those locusts are the ones from Joel... they're men, of a sort. The same breastplates are worn by the 200k which come from the other side of the Euphrates... And from that neighborhood, came Assyria, Babylon, and Persia... three of the 7 kingdoms/nations. In fact, all 7 nations which ruled over Israel are still in that same neck of the woods. I'm including Jacob/Israel as one of the rulerships... which most people don't think of, because they don't understand how impoverished Solomon had made the 10 tribes of northern Israel proper... after the dissolution of the united kingdom, Israel tells Judah/benjamin to feed themselves. But the end of national Israel happened when the temple fell... as the head which was wounded to death. And even though Judah/Benjamin haven't yet recognized Jesus as their Messiah, they are the horns of the lamb in effect. They will be 'born in Babylon', because Babylon moves around from world-capital to world-capital. In the end of days, the kingdom of the beast--spiritual Babylon, will be set up as the abomination which causes destruction in the Holy Land and Holy City. And since the United Nations has moved to Jerusalem, can the end be far off?
     
  5. OtherSheep

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    Not even close.

    Isaiah 66:6 "A voice of a cry from the city, a voice from the temple, a voice of the Lord rendering recompence to his adversaries. 7 Before she that travailed brought forth, before the travail-pain came on, she escaped it and brought forth a male. 8 Who has heard such a thing? and who has seen after this manner? Has the earth travailed in one day? or has even a nation been born at once, that Sion has travailed, and brought forth her children?"

    Daniel 12:1 "And at that time Michael the great prince shall stand up, that stands over the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of tribulation, such tribulation as has not been from the time that there was a nation on the earth until that time: at that time thy people shall be delivered, even every one that is written in the book."

    That's obviously about end times, right? Then so is this:

    11:14 The second woe is past; [and], behold, the third woe cometh quickly.
    Revelation 12:7 "And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, 8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. 9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. 10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night."
    12:12 ... Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

    The last woe happens when Satan gets kicked out of Heaven for good. That ain't happened yet, 'cause Sion has yet to be born... God isn't rendering recompense all over the place yet.
     
  6. 2ndpillar

    2ndpillar Well-Known Member

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    Not even close. The "awesome day of the LORD" happens when the LORD comes to fight (Zechariah 14:1-12). Zion is the mountain of God, not one to be born. The devil has been the authority behind the beast (Revelation 13:4), and the illustrative beast of Daniel 2 starts with Nebuchadnezzar, the "head of gold". As for Zion, she exists now, and according to Zechariah 2:7, those of Zion are told to "escape you who are living with the daughter of Babylon", which would be in the present age, the "Christian" church. As the end of the woes, Satan will be cast from earth to the abyss.

    The judgments have been ongoing for 2000 years for Judah and Ephraim (Hosea 5:8 - 6:2), and the tool being the nations. The coming woe will be of God's making, and the nations will receive the brunt of it, including Ephraim, which is scattered among the nations. And according to Daniel 12:1, "your people", such as Daniel's people, Judah, will be rescued (Joel 2:31-32), but at the same time purged, purified and refined" (Daniel 12:10). According to Zechariah 13:8-9, 2/3 of "my people" will perish. Afterward, Ephraim will be gathered and joined with Judah (Ezekiel 36 & 37) on the land "that I gave to Jacob".

    The power of God, the kingdom of heaven, is at hand and among the children of God now, and is with respect the the power and spirit of God, which is present among the children of God.

    I think your problem might be that for you up is down and down is up. Are you by any chance from Australia? Maybe you should remember that Hebrew is written right to left.
     
  7. savagewind

    savagewind Veteran Member
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    It is a fact that some people worship money. But, every soul on this planet, for the most part, cares about money. Money might be the thing that takes people's attention away from what is really and truly important for the generations to come. The Earth.
     
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  8. 2ndpillar

    2ndpillar Well-Known Member

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    The nations crushed all at the same time by the "stone" cut with out hands, start with the head of gold, Nebuchadnezzar's, Babylon, and ends with the iron/Rome and the clay/Edom (Daniel 2:35). It does not include "the 10 tribes of Israel".
     
  9. OtherSheep

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    Literal Zion hasn't been born yet. And Babylon is much bigger than Paulianity... any of the people of the book who have added manmade dogma to the word of God is Babylon.

    What's your definition of "woes"? Revelation says the last 3 trumpets, ending in ch.12.

    Revelation 20:2 "And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years," {which pretty much means Satan was in Babylon from ch.12 to 20}

    Zacharias 2:6 "Ho, ho, flee from the land of the north, saith the Lord: for I will gather you from the four winds of heaven, saith the Lord, 7 even to Sion: deliver yourselves, ye that dwell with the daughter of Babylon. 8 For thus saith the Lord Almighty; After the glory has he sent me to the nations that spoiled you: for he that touches you is as one that touches the apple of his eye. 9 For, behold, I bring my hand upon them, and they shall be a spoil to them that serve them: and ye shall know that the Lord Almighty has sent me."
    {the 'nations that spoiled' you are the 7 heads of the beast, IMHO... and we see the same thing that happened when Jacob left Egypt when the Egyptians gave them their jewelry}

    Zion or Sion from Strong's:
    6726 Tsiyown = the same (regularly) as 'tsiyuwn' (6725); Tsijon (as a permanent capital), a mountain of Jerusalem:--Zion.
    6725 tsiyuwn = from the same as 'tsiyah' (6723) in the sense of conspicuousness (compare 'natsach' (5329)); a monumental or guiding pillar:--sign, title, waymark.
    6723 tsiyah = from an unused root meaning to parch; aridity; concretely, a desert:--barren, drought, dry (land, place), solitary place, wilderness.
    {in the definition of the word Zion, we even see the wilderness where the woman went and the sign in heaven, from Revelation 12.}

    Revelation 12:1 "And a great sign was seen in the heaven, a woman arrayed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars, 2 and being with child she doth cry out, travailing and pained to bring forth. 3 And there was seen another sign in the heaven, and, lo, a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his head seven diadems, 4 and his tail doth draw the third of the stars of the heaven, and he did cast them to the earth; and the dragon did stand before the woman who is about to bring forth, that when she may bring forth, her child he may devour; 5 and she brought forth a male child, who is about to rule all the nations with a rod of iron, and caught away was her child unto God and His throne, 6 and the woman did flee to the wilderness, where she hath a place made ready from God, that there they may nourish her -- days a thousand, two hundred, sixty." {redeemed Thyatira, Revelation 2:27}


    Isaiah 66:6 "A voice of a cry from the city, a voice from the temple, a voice of the Lord rendering recompence to his adversaries. 7 Before she that travailed brought forth, before the travail-pain came on, she escaped it and brought forth a male. 8 Who has heard such a thing? and who has seen after this manner? Has the earth travailed in one day? or has even a nation been born at once, that Sion has travailed, and brought forth her children?"(LXX)

    Michaeas 5:1 "Now shall the daughter of Sion be completely hedged in: he has laid siege against us: they shall smite the tribes of Israel with a rod upon the cheek. 2 And thou, Bethleem, house of Ephratha, art few in number to be reckoned among the thousands of Juda; yet out of thee shall one come forth to Me, to be a ruler of Israel; and His goings forth were from the beginning, even from eternity. 3 Therefore shall He appoint them to wait till the time of her that travails: she shall bring forth, and then the remnant of their brethren shall return to the children of Israel." {the 144k, IMHO}

    The travails hasn't happened yet... Zion has yet to be surrounded... by those who seem to be pretenders to redeemed Thyatira:
    Revelation 2:27 "And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of My Father."

    ... when they're actually Jezebel's children:
    Revelation 2:22 "Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds."

    ... who get sent to Megiddo:
    Revelation 14:19 "And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast [it] into the great winepress of the wrath of God." {that's probably not what they'll think happened via this forcible extraction}
     
    #89 OtherSheep, Sep 20, 2018
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2018
  10. 2ndpillar

    2ndpillar Well-Known Member

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    It was Zion who travailed and gave birth. It was not someone gave birth to Zion. Those that dwell on Zion, the mountain of God, are those who keep the commandments and keep from profaning the commandments (Isaiah 8:20).
     
  11. OtherSheep

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    What if both things are true?
    Spiritual Zion births a clean Jerusalem/Zion, in the reunion of the divided kingdom.
     
  12. 2ndpillar

    2ndpillar Well-Known Member

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    You missed the train. Zion gives birth to sons. Ezekiel 36 God scattered the "mountain of Israel" "among the nations" because they had deviled their land "with their idols" . Because of "My holy name" , "I will take your from the nations"... "and bring you to your own land"..... "moreover, I will sprinkle clean water on you... give you a new heart an put a spirit within you". "Then they will know that I am the LORD".
     
  13. 2ndpillar

    2ndpillar Well-Known Member

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    The "literal" Zion of today is Mount Zion, king David's stronghold/Citadel, for which the pope, has been trying to obtain political control over, since he thinks he has the keys to "the house of David" (Isaiah 22:22). The Spiritual Zion, the mountain of God, already exist, and has no reason to be born. The key to that mountain/city, is the spirit of Revelation, such as the "Word of God", which people seem to twist with regularity, or in the case of Paul's friend, the writer of Hebrews, make it obsolete.

    Mount Zion - Wikipedia
     
  14. OtherSheep

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    Can't miss something I wasn't aiming at. Spiritual Zion births a clean Jerusalem... via the reunion of the divided kingdom, most of which come from the Lost Sheep of the House of Israel. The Kingdom Gospel is the Law which is written on the heart.

    A whole lot of those Romish guys were cryptos... which they created by forced conversion. Wonder if they spent any time at all kicking themselves for propping that backdoor open. The key to all things mountain is this...

    Matthew 21:21 Jesus answered and said unto them, Verily I say unto you, If ye have faith, and doubt not, ye shall not only do this [which is done] to the fig tree, but also if ye shall say unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; it shall be done.

    Revelation 18:21 And a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone, and cast [it] into the sea, saying, Thus with violence shall that great city Babylon be thrown down, and shall be found no more at all.

    You pro'lly won't see the connections, tho.
     
    #94 OtherSheep, Sep 22, 2018
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2018
  15. 2ndpillar

    2ndpillar Well-Known Member

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    The "law written on the heart" episode hasn't happened as is shown by Israel not being redeemed at this time, and that they are not observing My statutes (Ezekiel 36:26-27) As for "faith", if you don't have the faith to heal, and don't apparently understand "My law" (Jeremiah 31:33), and being given a "new heart" and walking "in My statutes", and don't understand what the "great city Babylon" is, how are you to "cast it into the sea"? Only Judah and Jerusalem have been "restored" (Joel 3:1) at this time. Israel will remain scattered among the nations until Jerusalem is "captured" (Zechariah 14:1-3). That is when the cup of the wrath of God will be drank by those who have followed the daughters of Babylon.(Revelation 14:10). As for "Jerusalem", it has already been "restored" (Joel 3:1) in 1967, and is but a city. The tabernacle of God will be "Israel" (Ezekiel 37:28). Jerusalem will simply be the place that the surviving nations will go to every year to worship the king, and observe the feast of booths.(Zechariah 14:16).

    The "kingdom gospel" is a made up phrase, whose personal meaning you have failed to disclose. There is the message of the kingdom, which is one of spirit and power, such as throwing a mountain into the sea, and you have the "Christian" gospel, which is the false gospel of grace/cross, which is part of the mark of the beast, and which has no power or spirit, except to bring destruction and calamity on the believer (Revelation 14:10).

    Ezekiel 36: 26“Moreover, I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; and I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. 27“I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will be careful to observe My ordinances. 28“You will live in the land that I gave to your forefathers; so you will be My people, and I will be your God. 29“Moreover, I will save you from all your uncleanness; and I will call for the grain and multiply it, and I will not bring a famine on you
     
  16. TrueBeliever37

    TrueBeliever37 Well-Known Member

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    Hi 2ndpillar, I know you weren't asking me, but here is the answer.

    The five emperors/kings who were fallen (i.e. were dead) were Augustus, Tiberius, Caligula, Claudius, and Nero.

    The one who is was Vespasian. So John wrote Revelation during the reign of Vespasian.

    The one to come and continue a short space, would be Titus who would only reign for about two years.

    The eighth is Domitian. He was of the seven, because his father was Vespasian, and Titus was his brother.

    Domitian was hailed as Emperor, and history says he even rode the white horse of the Emperor, that is until Vespasian showed up and became the actual Emperor. So Domitian would be the one who was, and yet is not, and yet would be the Emperor in the future.
     
  17. 2ndpillar

    2ndpillar Well-Known Member

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    The beast had 7 heads and ten horns. And the "beast"/head of Revelation 13:3-7, ruled as a dictator (speaking arrogantly) for 42 months. This beast tracks parallel with the beasts of Daniel, and includes all kings from Nebuchadnezzar, the head of gold, to the mixture of clay and iron which was crushed by the stone cut without hands. The one that is (of iron/Rome), is the 6th head of the beast, with 10 horns, which would be the healed 5th head Julius Caesar, which would be the 10 Augustus Caesars with respect to the sacking of Jerusalem by Pompey and Titus. The 8th horn, who was, as the 5th head of the beast, and is not, for he was burned/cremated (Daniel 7:11), is the dictator/emperor, Julius Caesar, who was slain and healed as Augustus Caesar, with the same authority given by the dragon. As the 8th head he will also have 10 horns, kings who will be given power for one hour (short period). They will hate the "harlot", that being Judah, and will burn and persecute her (Revelation 17:16). A good example of that type of behavior would be Hitler and the burning of the Jews. The "another" king of Daniel 7:24 & Revelation 13:11 is Constantine, the 7th head of the beast, the institutor of the Roman Catholic Church, a daughter of Babylon.
     
  18. Faithofchristian

    Faithofchristian Well-Known Member

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    Truebeliever, can you give in what chapter and verses in the book of Revelation that Chirst Jesus will collaborate what your saying.
    I find no where that Christ Jesus said anything about those things in the book of Revelation, that your saying.
     
  19. TrueBeliever37

    TrueBeliever37 Well-Known Member

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    No, the beast in Revelation is the same beast as the 4th beast in the book of Daniel. It is the 4th beast in Daniel that has the 10 horns like the beast in Revelation. It is very involved and I don't intend to go into it all. You are free to believe as you wish.
     
  20. TrueBeliever37

    TrueBeliever37 Well-Known Member

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    FOC, it is prophecy that was fulfilled. He is not going to give specific names.
    Just like he didn't come right out and say that the woman (city) was Rome. But we know that Rome was the city that was ruling over the kings of the earth at the time John wrote this, and is also called the city of seven hills.

    Since you disagree - you tell me, who were the five kings that were fallen?
     
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