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Reasons for believing in the Bible as the literal word of God.

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metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
I'm never against a person going with what feels right to them.
As long as your happy, if that is what you are looking for. Some people seem to frown of that.
Your happy, I'm happy, everything is good.
Thanks so much for the above and I feel the same way about what you may believe as well.

In cultural anthropology, we study societies all over the world, past and present, and religion is one major area in our studies. But, as the old saying goes, "If I have one clock, I know exactly what time it is; but if I have more than one, I'll not know what the time is". :shrug:
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
If you read the Bible, you can see from the text itself, it is written by humans and it contains witness testimonies. So, it is not directly written or told by God. But, by what it says, it has words from God. For example Jesus tells he speaks what God had commanded him to speak.

For I did not speak from Myself, but He who sent Me, the Father, He has given Me command, what I should say, and what I should speak. And I know that His command is everlasting life. Then what things I speak, as the Father has said to Me, so I speak.
Joh. 12:49-50

I believe what is said in the Bible, because:
1) I see things go as told in the Bible.

And you ignore the parts that do not go as told in the Bible.

2) The message is good and truthful on parts I can see.

And once again you ignore the evil and false parts of the Bible.

3) If it would be only from humans, atheists would not have so much difficulties in understanding it and perhaps they could point out some real error in it.
What makes you think that it is atheists that have troubles? Real errors have been pointed out to you countless times. What would it take to get you to evaluate the Bible honestly?
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member


Fairy tales??? - since 1947 the US government has had eight different projects investigating UFOs. And some new ones recently.

The Bible says the whole world will see Jesus coming back from the clouds with his angels, to render judgment and the world is going to try to do battle with him and this entire solar system is going to be destroyed. Unbelieving People of the world will be screaming alien invasion because they don't know him.
What men now calls aliens, the ancient people called angels. What man now calls "magic sky god" the ancients call him a supernatural being .... God.

They are described basically the same and the feats they did then they do now.

Okay sky fairy
Bad analogy. UFO's have been shown again and again to be just unexpected side effects of new technology. They have been shown to be man made errors. Oh wait! I see your point. The Bible is merely an anthology of human errors and false beliefs.
 

1213

Well-Known Member
Ready to discuss Luke now -- remember, In order for the Bible to be without error, Luke's account has to be consistent with history before we can even determine whether it's consistent with Matthew's account.

The Romans were pretty meticulous record-keepers, yet no record of any such decree from Agustus exists.
If we can't found such a record, outside the Bible, it does not mean it could not have happened.
The world should be taxed? The entire Roman empire, all at once? Romans didn't do it that way -- taxes were collected province by province, for reasons which should be blindingly obvious: trying to do the whole thing at once would've overwhelmed the Roman bureaucracy and brought the whole government to a screeching halt.
If we accept it never happened, why would it have been written and believed in the ancient time?
Judaea became a Roman province around AD 6, Iudaea, but that province did not include Galilee -- if there was such a census or tax, Joseph, a Galilean, was not subject to it. He made the trip for nothing.
How do you know that?
Each to their own city? Did Augustus actually expect every single subject and citizen of the empire to drop everything and make the trip for this? never mind the government; the empire itself would fall apart!
Why would it fall apart?
So really, the only way any of this can be true is if the entire Roman Empire had gone completely insane...
Empires seems to be always insane, so I don't think that is any argument against the story.
 

1213

Well-Known Member
As you wish. Let's start with some simple history:
It seems you are good at making stuff up. The problem with your claims is, they seem to be wishful thinking. If you think something is not probable, it does not mean it never happened.
 

Evangelicalhumanist

"Truth" isn't a thing...
Premium Member
Unfortunately for you, you can't prove that there is any real error. Matters that conflicts with your beliefs are not errors, if you can't prove your beliefs correct.
Start right at the beginning: Genesis.

Genesis chapter 1 says the first man and woman were made at the same time, and after the animals. But Genesis chapter 2 gives a different order of creation: man, then the animals, and then woman.

It is not a matter of conflict with any beliefs. It is impossible for both scenarios to be true -- and therefore, using only 2 brain cells, one must be false.

Okay, New Testament: Matthew 2:13-15 depicts Joseph and Mary as fleeing to Egypt with the baby Jesus immediately after the wise men from the east had brought gifts. But Luke 2:22-40 claims that after the birth of Jesus, his parents remained in Bethlehem for the time of Mary’s purification (which was 40 days, under the Mosaic law). Afterwards, they brought Jesus to Jerusalem “to present him to the Lord,” and then returned to their home in Nazareth. Luke mentions no journey into Egypt or visit by wise men from the east.

It is not a matter of conflict with any beliefs. It is impossible for Jesus to have both gone to Egypt and NOT gone to Egypt. Now, using only 2 more brain cells (which leaves you billions for other things), one must be false.

There are many, many, many internal contradictions like this -- too many to bother with here. But let's look at just one more: Ezekial 18 says, "The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him." Of course, that's simple justice. And yet, when David sinned with Bathsheba, who died at the will of God-- taking a cruel 7 days to do so? Their child. So God doesn't even bother paying attention to his own rules.

Nope, sorry. The Bible is the work of humans, and only the work of humans.
 

Evangelicalhumanist

"Truth" isn't a thing...
Premium Member
I think the biggest reason Christians had for taking the Bible as the literal word of God was to take away any authority the Pope had. That way Christians could determine the will of God for themselves instead of relying on the human emissary between man and God.
You can find that suggestion hinted at by the Grand Inquisitor in Book V of The Brothers Karamazov by Dostoevsky.
 
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Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Please tell, what exactly I have ignored? One example is enough for both of those claims.
You have ignored endless corrections when it come to the myths of Genesis. You have clearly never studied the Bible. If you had you would know that errors and contradictions are to be found in almost every book.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
It seems you are good at making stuff up. The problem with your claims is, they seem to be wishful thinking. If you think something is not probable, it does not mean it never happened.
And there you go. Ignoring the problems with the Bible again. Why didn't you address the problems that he brought up?
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Start right at the beginning: Genesis.

Genesis chapter 1 says the first man and woman were made at the same time, and after the animals. But Genesis chapter 2 gives a different order of creation: man, then the animals, and then woman.

It is not a matter of conflict with any beliefs. It is impossible for both scenarios to be true -- and therefore, using only 2 brain cells, one must be false.

Okay, New Testament: Matthew 2:13-15 depicts Joseph and Mary as fleeing to Egypt with the baby Jesus immediately after the wise men from the east had brought gifts. But Luke 2:22-40 claims that after the birth of Jesus, his parents remained in Bethlehem for the time of Mary’s purification (which was 40 days, under the Mosaic law). Afterwards, they brought Jesus to Jerusalem “to present him to the Lord,” and then returned to their home in Nazareth. Luke mentions no journey into Egypt or visit by wise men from the east.

It is not a matter of conflict with any beliefs. It is impossible for Jesus to have both gone to Egypt and NOT gone to Egypt. Now, using only 2 more brain cells (which leaves you billions for other things), one must be false.

There are many, many, many internal contradictions like this -- too many to bother with here. But let's look at just one more: Ezekial 18 says, "The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him." Of course, that's simple justice. And yet, when David sinned with Bathsheba, who died at the will of God-- taking a cruel 7 days to do so? Their child. So God doesn't even bother paying attention to his own rules.

Nope, sorry. The Bible is the work of humans, and only the work of humans.
And let's not forget the ten year time difference between the date of Birth in Matthew vs. that of Luke. Who has ever heard of a 560 week pregnancy?
 

TLK Valentine

Read the books that others would burn.
It seems you are good at making stuff up. The problem with your claims is, they seem to be wishful thinking. If you think something is not probable, it does not mean it never happened.

What did I make up? Read the Bible; it's all in there.

Matthew's account is improbable as written, but I never said it didn't happen.

That'll come later when you try to reconcile it all with Luke. Good luck with that, btw...
 

TLK Valentine

Read the books that others would burn.
If we can't found such a record, outside the Bible, it does not mean it could not have happened.

But we have found such a record -- the Census of Quirinius in AD 6 -- far too late to be the one that allegedly moved Joseph, since by then Jesus would've been at least 10 years old, having been born in the reign of Herod the Great.

If we accept it never happened, why would it have been written and believed in the ancient time?

Now you're being circular -- The Bible must be true because it's in the Bible...

It was written because, as I explained, Luke needed a reason to have Jesus of Nazareth be born in Bethlehem.
History was not kind enough to provide such a reason, so Luke got creative. Not as creative as Matthew, but B+ for effort.


How do you know that?

I know that because I read books. How do you not know that?

Why would it fall apart?

Use your brain.
Does any country in the modern world, with its instantaneous communication and rapid mass transit, require its citizens to register for taxes in the city of their ancestors, and not the city they currently live in?

We already know from historical records that the Romans, who lacked these conveniences, didn't require this:

Indeed, an Egyptian census edict of Gaius Vibius Maximus, the Roman prefect of Egypt from 103 to 107, did require that “all persons who for any reason whatsoever are absent from their home districts be alerted to return to their own hearths, so that they may complete the customary formalities of registration and apply themselves to the farming for which they are responsible.”

Source:Cargill, Robert. The Cities that Built the Bible. San Francisco: Harper One, 2017.


Empires seems to be always insane, so I don't think that is any argument against the story.

I don't think your failed attempt at a witticism is any kind of rebuttal.
 

Brickjectivity

Turned to Stone. Now I stretch daily.
Staff member
Premium Member
What are your best reasons for believing in the Bible as the literal word of God, if that's your thing? Heck, just give me reasons they don't even have to be good.

But I'm coming to the conclusion/opinion that there isn't really a "good" reason to believe in the Bible as the literal word of God.
We tend to rely a lot upon data and facts, because we like to believe our world is consistent and runs on rules What if our view of this world is wrong? Here we have a series of books claiming exactly that.

I realize how hard it is and tiring to consider, but everything around us can be fake The problem with this is that its become so outside of our mental box. We have come to expect an unchanging physical reality and have even used words like 'Constant' to describe it But what if it isn't constant?

We as a species have pondered this possibility. Some have been preoccupied with it We even have tried to turn this worrisome thought into a hope. Instead of saying "What if none of this is real" we have chosen to say "What if things are better than they seem, and I wonder how good they can become?"

And that is the strongest argument I can come up with which isn't a great one but may appeal to some. It probably isn't the literal word of God, but if it is there could be a bright side to that dark cloud.
 

Audie

Veteran Member
We tend to rely a lot upon data and facts, because we like to believe our world is consistent and runs on rules What if our view of this world is wrong? Here we have a series of books claiming exactly that.

I realize how hard it is and tiring to consider, but everything around us can be fake The problem with this is that its become so outside of our mental box. We have come to expect an unchanging physical reality and have even used words like 'Constant' to describe it But what if it isn't constant?

We as a species have pondered this possibility. Some have been preoccupied with it We even have tried to turn this worrisome thought into a hope. Instead of saying "What if none of this is real" we have chosen to say "What if things are better than they seem, and I wonder how good they can become?"

And that is the strongest argument I can come up with which isn't a great one but may appeal to some. It probably isn't the literal word of God, but if it is there could be a bright side to that dark cloud.

"What if God is fake" seems a way more
realistic q than what if everything else is
 

TLK Valentine

Read the books that others would burn.
We tend to rely a lot upon data and facts, because we like to believe our world is consistent and runs on rules What if our view of this world is wrong? Here we have a series of books claiming exactly that.

What if it's wrong, indeed? Let's explore that.

Thus far, the world has behaved precisely as though it is indeed consistent and does run on rules.

Until we see otherwise, let us begin with the premise that the world is, to our perception and knowledge,consistent and runs on rules - rules we can learn and use to predict future events.

I realize how hard it is and tiring to consider, but everything around us can be fake The problem with this is that its become so outside of our mental box. We have come to expect an unchanging physical reality and have even used words like 'Constant' to describe it But what if it isn't constant?

If it isn't, then the alternative would be chaos.
Gravity pulls things down today; it pulls them sideways tomorrow.
2+2=4 today; it equals "fish" tomorrow.

But chaos is exactly what we don't see in the world - we humans have a gift for pattern recognition, and we've used it well enough to spot patterns -- the "rules" -- in the world so far.

We as a species have pondered this possibility. Some have been preoccupied with it We even have tried to turn this worrisome thought into a hope. Instead of saying "What if none of this is real" we have chosen to say "What if things are better than they seem, and I wonder how good they can become?"

And that is the strongest argument I can come up with which isn't a great one but may appeal to some. It probably isn't the literal word of God, but if it is there could be a bright side to that dark cloud.

It's only a bright side to a world that isn't consistent and doesn't have rules.

You're proposing a solution to a problem that we don't have.
 

Brickjectivity

Turned to Stone. Now I stretch daily.
Staff member
Premium Member
"What if God is fake" seems a way more
realistic q than what if everything else is
I understand and respect your point, but I am humoring the OP.
What if it's wrong, indeed? Let's explore that.

Thus far, the world has behaved precisely as though it is indeed consistent and does run on rules.

Until we see otherwise, let us begin with the premise that the world is, to our perception and knowledge,consistent and runs on rules - rules we can learn and use to predict future events.
Where did the gods go? They were there, and then they weren't. One explanation: they liked and supported faiths that let them hide from society such as Catholicism. That would make the bible the literal word of God
But I also question your certainty of History. Did you know that Livvy, our best known Roman Historian, said that most of Roman History passed on to him was manufactured? Its in the introduction to his work. He was unable to recover Rome's true history.

Have you ever seen a political 'Dialogue'? Such spit and venom, but everyone gobbles it up like cream. And these people we rely upon to safeguard truth and History.

How easily we are fooled and taught through advertisements! How shallow is common sense which is about as reliable as The Discovery Channel. Do you know someone who likes alien conspiracies and ghost hunts? I don't but at some time most people do! Serious fellows like me can't be fooled that way, so we are fooled in other ways such as by crypto schemes.
If it isn't, then the alternative would be chaos.
Gravity pulls things down today; it pulls them sideways tomorrow.
2+2=4 today; it equals "fish" tomorrow.

But chaos is exactly what we don't see in the world - we humans have a gift for pattern recognition, and we've used it well enough to spot patterns -- the "rules" -- in the world so far.
I empathize, however the world is filled with chaos, lies, completely bedeviled beliefs that people are confident in. Your own certainty is sadly familiar.
 

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
Finally some school districts are starting to wise up:

"Utah district bans Bible in elementary, middle school 'due to vulgarity or violence"

If your a young kid and happen to read this charmer from the bible ....

Paslm 137:9


Version
Happy is the one who seizes your infants and dashes them against the rocks.

New Living Translation
Happy is the one who takes your babies and smashes them against the rocks!

English Standard Version
Blessed shall he be who takes your little ones and dashes them against the rock!

Berean Standard Bible
Blessed is he who seizes your infants and dashes them against the rocks.

King James Bible
Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones.

New King James Version
Happy the one who takes and dashes Your little ones against the rock!

New American Standard Bible
Blessed will be one who seizes and dashes your children Against the rock.

NASB 1995
How blessed will be the one who seizes and dashes your little ones Against the rock.

NASB 1977
How blessed will be the one who seizes and dashes your little ones Against the rock.

Legacy Standard Bible
How blessed will be the one who seizes and dashes your infants Against the cliff.

Amplified Bible
How blessed will be the one who seizes and dashes your little ones Against the rock.

Christian Standard Bible
Happy is he who takes your little ones and dashes them against the rocks.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
Happy is he who takes your little ones and dashes them against the rocks.

American Standard Version
Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones Against the rock.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
Blessed is he who will seize your infants and will dash the rocks!

Brenton Septuagint Translation
Blessed shall he be who shall seize and dash thine infants against the rock.

Contemporary English Version
May the Lord bless everyone who beats your children against the rocks!

Douay-Rheims Bible
Blessed be he that shall take and dash thy little ones against the rock.

English Revised Version
Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the rock.

GOD'S WORD® Translation
Blessed is the one who grabs your little children and smashes them against a rock.

Good News Translation
who take your babies and smash them against a rock.

International Standard Version
How blessed will be the one who seizes your young children and pulverizes them against the cliff!

JPS Tanakh 1917
Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones Against the rock.

Literal Standard Version
O the blessedness of him who seizes, and has dashed your sucklings on the rock!

Majority Standard Bible
Blessed is he who seizes your infants and dashes them against the rocks.

New American Bible
Blessed the one who seizes your children and smashes them against the rock.

NET Bible
How blessed will be the one who grabs your babies and smashes them on a rock!

New Revised Standard Version
Happy shall they be who take your little ones and dash them against the rock!

New Heart English Bible
Blessed shall he be who takes and dashes your little ones against the rock.

Webster's Bible Translation
Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones.

World English Bible
Happy shall he be, who takes and dashes your little ones against the rock.

Young's Literal Translation
O the happiness of him who doth seize, And hath dashed thy sucklings on the rock!


Quite a book of horrors.
 
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