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Featured Racial GUILT!

Discussion in 'Seekers Circle' started by Ellen Brown, Aug 14, 2019.

  1. columbus

    columbus Conservative Catholic from Hell

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    Possibly because they're no longer taking the opiate of the masses?
    Tom
     
  2. Enoch07

    Enoch07 It's all a sick freaking joke.
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    Correction?!?! :facepalm:

    You even mentioned how slavery and Jim Crow are related and you are whining because the OP didn't directly mention slavery?!? You effin said it's related but you complain it isn't on topic?!?!

    Cognitive dissonance is a terrible thing.

    :fearscream:

    You should go back and read the entire post again. It's not whataboutism. Ffs you are not doing yourself any justice here.
     
  3. Enoch07

    Enoch07 It's all a sick freaking joke.
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    Dude it is history. Read the link. Anthony Johnson was a former slave that became one of the first black land owners in America. Read the case. Initially the supreme court sided with his slave at the time. Ruling that an indentured servants child was not the property of the master. Johnson appealed it and won making chattel slavery officially legal in the colonies.
     
  4. Ellen Brown

    Ellen Brown Well-Known Member
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    Didn't mean to be abrupt. I was on my way to bed. It seems to me that a Man named Jesus was in was in Israel and did the things that the writings speak of. It is unfortunate that the Jews, Christians and later the Muslims did not understand the purposes for his presence. In my opinion, the churches I was a member of for 33 years, tried to make Jesus a side show, and others surrounded him with so much liturgy and ritualism that I grew frustrated. I did attend an ELCA Lutheran church solely for the Sacrament last sunday, but much of it was lost on me. Part of that is that I wore the wrong glasses and couldn't read the program, and the other is that my hearing is so bad that I couldn't understand most of what was said.

    Is Jesus The Son of God? Christian scripture says so, though to me, the Trinity idea is just bunk.

    The Muslim ideas about Isa PBUH (Jesus) are similar to Jewish ideas about him because while they don't think he is the Son of Allah SWT (God), that idea is more related to who they believe Allah to be rather than who Isa is. To Muslims, Allah is a spirit and does not procreate, hence the difficulty about Isa being the Son of Allah. Isa (Jesus) is greatly honored in Islam. Perhaps a Quarter of the Quran is about Isa. And, it is He who will return in the End Time to straighten out the peoples of the Earth. Sunnis, I believe, say that it is only He. The Shia belief is that He will return and meet the Mahdi and they will fix the peoples.

    Sadly, to my dismay, the Christians I have been exposed to try to daemonize Muslims owing to their own lack of scholarship and understanding. And, the Muslims are no better in return. What will a Holy God do with us???
     
  5. InChrist

    InChrist Free4ever

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    Thanks for your thoughts. I think you are right, too, too many churches and Christians have made Jesus a side show adding so many distracting extras. It is so sad.

    But I fear, lest somehow, as the serpent deceived Eve by his craftiness, so your minds may be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. 2 Corinthians 11:3
     
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  6. Ellen Brown

    Ellen Brown Well-Known Member
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    The message of God is very simple and if we follow him in love and faith, there is very little for us to worry about. My favorite is Micah 6:8.
     
  7. MikeDwight

    MikeDwight Active Member

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    You don't want a Lutheran Church, you want a Bonnie Presbyterian Church. You've heard the bonnie Joke its all Bonnie Scotsmen! Bonnie bonnie lassie got the bonnie blue flag weesht roamin in the gloaming, with a bonnie Jeannie McColll on bonnie loch Lomond, with an auld lang syne, I Practically want to Own a Bible!
     
  8. Ellen Brown

    Ellen Brown Well-Known Member
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    It is doubtful that they would tolerate me. AND, I do not want a church that is a soap box for the LGBT. We should be there for God and him alone.
     
  9. We Never Know

    We Never Know Well-Known Member

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    It's odd how many see Chinks, Redskins, Wet Backs, Ni***r, as racist and unacceptable but whitey, casper, cracker, etc aren't seen that way.

    IMO until everyone realises racism is done by others and not just white people, racism will never die.

    For example..
    There's a show called blackish, funny show. But if there was one called whiteish, it would be racist.

    There's Black entertainment TV. If there was white entertainment TV it would be racist.

    Etc.


    Racism isn't only committed by white people and until everyone figures that out, racism will never die.
     
  10. Ellen Brown

    Ellen Brown Well-Known Member
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    I've seen Blacks hating on Whitey, and Hawaiians hating Howlies.
     
  11. Epic Beard Man

    Epic Beard Man Bearded Philosopher

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    Jim Crow is a byproduct of the institution of racism which is propagated by the system of slavery. However that is besides the point that the OP didn't mention slavery, you did.

    I'm not whining at all, you did by deflecting to the "whataboutism" strategy which is a typical right wing conservative nut job talking point. The typical "i didn't own slaves" argument when the OP never even mentioned anything of the like. I have no stake in this fight because the OP has deeper issues than just this thread.

    Sure it is, you made an entire dissertation about "well, well, tha blacks started slavery in the beginning!" and "But but, the Arab and African slave trade" all nonsensical comments to a thread that is not even about that.
     
  12. Epic Beard Man

    Epic Beard Man Bearded Philosopher

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    Who said racism is only committed by whites?
     
  13. Enoch07

    Enoch07 It's all a sick freaking joke.
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    Which none of it exist anymore.

    Yes and as you repeatedly have said it is related to Jim Crow.

    I beg to differ.

    It is pertinent though. I didn't own slaves. I didn't participate in Jim Crow either. I dont treat black folk any different than I do white folk, or any other folks.

    Incorrect.

    I brought those up to prove a point.

    It is well known and undeniable white folk of the past owned slaves and participated racism, Jim Crow etc.

    I pointed out that black folk are guilty of the same sins. For the specific reason of that I dont think anyone should be held accountable for the sins of their ancestors.

    Here
    And I answered my own question shortly after with.

    So you see it wasn't "whataboutism". Because I didn't leave the question open ended. I used it all to prove a point that nobody should feel guilty for something their ancestors did, or even their parents, so long as you specifically haven't participated in racism then there is nothing to feel guilty about.

    This doesn't mean it all fine and dandy. We can remember it was a terrible thing and not repeat the past, without tormenting ourselves constantly with this terrible guilt that builds and festers hate within us. Like @SomeRandom said:

    And they have the exact right set of mind. It's in the past, let's not forget about it, but it's time to move on and let it go.
     
  14. Epic Beard Man

    Epic Beard Man Bearded Philosopher

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    "Did you know it was an African American man that made slavery legal in the U.S.? Before then it wasn't legal or illegal. Anthony Johnson (colonist) - Wikipedia"


    Here you have an armchair scholar who like many conservatives use whataboutism to save face when it comes to highlighting. Funny, I was reading an article on @Enoch07 and his ilk regarding this very fact and I found something interesting:

    How right-wing talking points distort the history of slavery

    Myth No. 3: A black man was the first slave owner in North America.

    "The third most egregious point circulating in conservative media is that America’s oldest original sin was, in fact, innovated by a black man, Anthony Johnson, whom Knowles called the first “formally recognized” slave owner in the United States. Yes, Johnson owned slaves, a unique circumstance allotted to some people of African descent in 17th-century Virginia. His status as the “first” known slaveholder probably stems from his successful suit against his indentured servant John Casor, in which Casor was deemed a “slave for life,” an identity that became a determining feature of U.S. chattel slavery.

    However, this rendition simplifies a complex biography, ignoring shifts in the larger Colonial legal definition of slavery. More significantly, Anthony Johnson only reflects a single scenario within a much broader saga of human bondage. The defining characteristic of enslavement throughout the Western Hemisphere was predicated on the abuse and exploitation of black bodies. It is the reason that from the inception of colonization up to 1820 at least four Africans arrived in the Americas for every one European.

    The focus on Johnson’s unique status is designed to convey their underlying argument: If a black man could own slaves in early America, then black people and white people held access to the same opportunities for social mobility.

    However, even if one accepted this narrative, the system evolved and eventually eliminated prospects for black social mobility. Historians T.H. Breen and Stephen Innes’s book “Myne Owne Ground” explored Johnson’s biography extensively and proposed the possibility that forced labor was not strictly determined by racial classification. However, they definitively state that the Virginia slave codes of 1705 subverted any gains made by the state’s free black population. Slave codes proliferated throughout the South by the 18th century, ensuring that the defining characteristic of chattel slavery was interpreted by the captive’s blackness. Those who were “free” and “black” remained an anomaly throughout the Southern states, and legislators ensured their safety was tenuous.

    No other ethnic minority in U.S. history experienced a comparable form of oppression via racialized slavery, and its legacy directly affected generationsof black people in this country. Any claims to the contrary are deeply ahistorical.

    Various groups were subjected to forced labor, but a wealth of historical scholarship demonstrates that anti-black chattel slavery was a uniquely violent and exploitative intervention in the global history of human bondage. Scholars of slavery and the African diaspora must engage the public with renewed vigor and challenge such misrepresentations. Otherwise, we surrender the narrative to dishonest public figures who selectively edit the system’s overtly racist features and its devastating legacy."

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/outl...points-distort-history-slavery/?noredirect=on





     
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  15. Enoch07

    Enoch07 It's all a sick freaking joke.
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    A former slave that owned slaves and took to one to court to insure he could own that slaves children.

    The story is still true. Dunno why you think that refutes the facts.

    "Various groups were subjected to forced labor, but a wealth of historical scholarship demonstrates that anti-black chattel slavery was a uniquely violent and exploitative intervention in the global history of human bondage."

    Yes a chattel slavery system that was initiated by the african slave trade before the Eurpeans ever arrived in Africa.

    Love the alternative facts and slave apologist reaction though.
     
  16. Epic Beard Man

    Epic Beard Man Bearded Philosopher

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    Well elements of Jim Crow still exist just in different forms.

    No, I repeated explaining the causality of Jim Crow. Stop trying to deflect from the fact that in the very beginning that you used the pitiful "but but slavery and muh parents wasn't responsible" argument.

    No it isn't there is nothing in the subject matter that warranted the mentioning of it.

    That is not even the issue in this thread.

    Who cares whether you did or you didn't. I don't really care because I know how you act here wouldn't be going down in front of me just like any loud mouth armchair warrior online that is fact.

    Which was baseless and irrelevant to the subject matter. This is about @Ellen Brown not you.
     
  17. Epic Beard Man

    Epic Beard Man Bearded Philosopher

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    Reading is fundamental.....
     
  18. Epic Beard Man

    Epic Beard Man Bearded Philosopher

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    You're how old and use the term "whitey?" (As the term whitey is a juvenile attempt to mock how blacks refer to whites) How about you fix the issues you have psychologically and what's going on in your life. We all (including myself) could use some introspection to our life's issues. Yes you may have some inner prejudices and perhaps some counseling is in order to help you with whatever demons you're currently dealing with.
     
  19. Enoch07

    Enoch07 It's all a sick freaking joke.
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    I am sure it does in some po dump hick towns in the middle of nowhere. But for the most part it is socially unacceptable even in some po dump towns.

    No deflection, just making a point.

    I disagree.

    It is now obviously because you won't let it go.

    Actually I would. I am 6ft 300lbs and have faced men much larger than I and in greater numbers. I am not afraid to lose a fight. I will voice my opinions just the same in face or on a forum. If you don't like that opinion and feel the need to threaten or assault me you would not enjoy the outcome of that action, so I would advise against it.

    I disagree.

    Good you learned that, now apply it.
     
  20. Guitar's Cry

    Guitar's Cry Verisimilitudinous

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    This is because white culture dominates the media landscape as it is. Remember that for African Americans they cannot point to a specific culture other than African American due to being taken from their homeland, having their religion and language and other cultural elements stripped from then, and then bred for more slaves or raped. Their history here has been defined by the color or their skin. White Americans can, for the most part, trace our lineage and we do celebrate Irish pride, Scottish pride, German pride, Greek pride, etc. With nary a racist condemnation.

    So African Americans should feel free to have Black pride and media.
     
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