R. C. bishops: We'd rather see children suffer than acknowledge same-sex couples

[Alceste]

The leaders now have no qualifications; so it's no different in that sense. It's really about the people you hire. Have you stepped into one of these catholic charities? Just curious. Not everyone that works there is a) catholic b) someone they got off the street.

Having read the research on homosexual parenting, it's very obvious to me that an organization which maintains that homosexuals can not be excellent parents is either ignorant or disinterested in the field of psychology. I can not see how a person who is ignorant or disinterested in psychology could be considered "qualified" to provide social services to vulnerable populations.

Which is not to say that religious organizations don't recruit people with religious qualifications, such as they are. I just do not believe that religious qualifications are adequate for the task at hand.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Dude, you're just spouting crap out that you know nothing about.

Catholic organizations don't just feed, clothe, or adopt to just catholics.

... Which makes their position on this issue strange at best and hypocritical at worst, IMO. They're okay with handing a child over to a couple who will never take the child to Mass and not see to any of the sacraments for him/her, but THIS is the issue where they draw the line? It makes no sense. It'd be one thing if they refused children to anyone in a state of "mortal sin", but I don't see how they could ever argue that a baby would be worse off with a gay couple than he would be living a hellhound life with a couple of straight atheists.

Basically, this group is cherry-picking its sins.

 

[Quiddity]

Having read the research on homosexual parenting, it's very obvious to me that an organization who maintains that homosexuals can not be excellent parents is either ignorant or disinterested in the field of psychology. I can not see how a person who is ignorant or disinterested psychology could be considered "qualified" to provide social services to vulnerable populations.

Which is not to say that religious organizations don't recruit people with religious qualifications, such as they are. I just do not believe that religious qualifications are adequate for the task at hand.

Well, there is alot in child psychology that has little to do with the topic at hand. This isn't an all or nothing proposition. Someone can be religious and be just as qualified.............but because he/she views the family unit differently; he/she is deemed unqualified.

I've read more then I can remember on studies and articles in the APA and it's a mistake to deem this as "qualifier"......because quite frankly, the studies are incomplete at best (you and I have gone through this before). At any rate, it is done and I have nothing but the best of feelings toward it's success. I really do.

 

[Quiddity]

... Which makes their position on this issue strange at best and hypocritical at worst, IMO. They're okay with handing a child over to a couple who will never take the child to Mass and not see to any of the sacraments for him/her, but THIS is the issue where they draw the line? It makes no sense. It'd be one thing if they refused children to anyone in a state of "mortal sin", but I don't see how they could ever argue that a baby would be worse off with a gay couple than he would be living a hellhound life with a couple of straight atheists.

Basically, this group is cherry-picking its sins.

Tell me, how are they supposed to know any of that stuff? Seriously?

If a gay couple comes in I'm fairly certain it would be hard to miss.

Also, it's not a sin to miss Mass if you aren't catholic.

EDIT:
Also, you are comparing acts to a choice of living.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Tell me, how are they supposed to know any of that stuff? Seriously?

Prospective adoptive parents get screened and interviewed. Their lives are subject to scrutiny in all sorts of ways.

If a gay couple comes in I'm fairly certain it would be hard to miss.

Also, it's not a sin to miss Mass if you aren't catholic.

If the child's been baptized Catholic, would it be a sin to hand him or her over to people who you know won't see to the sacraments for him or her?

EDIT:
Also, you are comparing acts to a choice of living.

Which one's which?

 

[Tristesse]

They are not going to change their beliefs; not now, not ever.

I support this.

Gay couples had options (not to go to a catholic one for example).

They decided to stick it to the catholic church (if you follow what was going on in San Fran) and now it's their fault that the kids are suffering?

If the church is recieving state money they cannot be prejudice. If they don't want to comply then they don't get money from the state, and if they want to continue to be bigoted then let them raise their own money. But you cannot use state money for bigoted practices. Its as simple as that.

 

[Alceste]

Well, there is alot in child psychology that has little to do with the topic at hand. This isn't an all or nothing proposition. Someone can be religious and be just as qualified.............but because he/she views the family unit differently; he/she is deemed unqualified.

I've read more then I can remember on studies and articles in the APA and it's a mistake to deem this as "qualifier"......because quite frankly, the studies are incomplete at best (you and I have gone through this before). At any rate, it is done and I have nothing but the best of feelings toward it's success. I really do.

It isn't a simple matter of opinion. Having parents of the same sex is either psychologically harmful to a child or it isn't. ALL the research so far undertaken WITHOUT EXCEPTION (this is extremely compelling evidence, regardless of the fact you still consider it inadequate for religious reasons) has found that it is not harmful.

This means it is almost certainly a FACT that there is no harm to the child in a same sex couple adopting or raising children. One who ignores established facts regarding the psychological welfare of children is unqualified for the job of placing unwanted children with families. Period.

Likewise, one who believes the sun orbits the earth is unqualified for the job of astrophysicist. As far as I am concerned he can believe whatever he wants, but has no right to complain if he's not given a job as an astrophysicist on account of his commitment to embracing cosmological fantasy in the place of the truth.

 

[JacobEzra.]

I'm sure there are many that do.

I support it, but not for the reasons a Catholic would. I simply think it is better that such services be provided via a secular framework and subject to public accountability. After all the child abuse that has gone on in state partnerships with religious groups for the provision of social services I no longer trust any church group to be responsible for the general welfare of children without causing irreparable harm.

One way or the other, I am glad they're shuttering their doors. The fact that pure homophobia drove them to it is inconsequential. Good riddance.

Despite the fact that its been mainly clergy who abused children, not catholic charities, but child services, atleast in Philadelphia has done a warse job then any family servce the state supports.

 

[idav]

... Which makes their position on this issue strange at best and hypocritical at worst, IMO. They're okay with handing a child over to a couple who will never take the child to Mass and not see to any of the sacraments for him/her, but THIS is the issue where they draw the line? It makes no sense. It'd be one thing if they refused children to anyone in a state of "mortal sin", but I don't see how they could ever argue that a baby would be worse off with a gay couple than he would be living a hellhound life with a couple of straight atheists.

Basically, this group is cherry-picking its sins.

If it were just that simple to know when someone is a murderer or rapist then they might not just hand over the children. Really same sex couples is real obvious as long as the fill out the forms accurately and/or the churches gaydar is up to par. However I think they would still have a problem with the atheist couple if they were privy to the info, it's easy enough for atheists to fake it, "praise god" lol.

 

[Photonic]

Proofform - American Cancer Society refuses $500,000 from atheists

Isn't this wonderful?

 

[Drolefille]

If it were just that simple to know when someone is a murderer or rapist then they might not just hand over the children. Really same sex couples is real obvious as long as the fill out the forms accurately and/or the churches gaydar is up to par. However I think they would still have a problem with the atheist couple if they were privy to the info, it's easy enough for atheists to fake it, "praise god" lol.

While it happens, it is illegal for Catholic Charities to discriminate on the grounds of religion. I'd say that they don't do so, but I have a friend who didn't receive serves because she's bi and pagan so that's not totally true. They receive state and federal money, this means they have to follow state and federal law. A group that would not adopt to black parents for moral reasons would not be permitted to receive a state contract. State law requires X, so if an agency cannot meet X they should not receive a contract.

However I think you just compared murder and rape to being gay. And that's really not cool.

 

[idav]

However I think you just compared murder and rape to being gay. And that's really not cool.

No, I was responding to someone who was talking about what the church deems a "mortal" sin. It would have to be murder or rape or some such thing. I'm not sure they consider being gay a mortal sin, wouldn't surprise me, but when they are more worried about a persons religion or sexual orientation than actual reprehensible behavior then there is a problem.

 

[Drolefille]

No, I was responding to someone who was talking about what the church deems a "mortal" sin. It would have to be murder or rape or some such thing. I'm not sure they consider being gay a mortal sin, wouldn't surprise me, but when they are more worried about a persons religion or sexual orientation than actual reprehensible behavior then there is a problem.

Homosexual behavior is supposed to be equivalent to any sexual behavior outside marriage. It isn't murder.

 

[Photonic]

This seems to be applicable to this thread in particular.

 

[-Peacemaker-]

The Catholics in the article have spent a 140 years in the area helping take care of their poor in their area. All of you who criticizing them for not compromising their values and allowing gay couples to adopt, please tell me if you've done 1/1,000,000 of the good they have in your own community. Spare me the pedophile jokes while you're at it.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Another reason I hope Heaven and Hell are real, so after they are cast away from the Christ they so claim to love and follow I can add insult to injury with a prompt "HAW-HAW" just after they are cast into darkness.
But that is just sickening that they are doing the exact opposite of what Jesus said, and would rather bask in their bigotry than acknowledge this is not their world.

 

[Photonic]

Another reason I hope Heaven and Hell are real, so after they are cast away from the Christ they so claim to love and follow I can add insult to injury with a prompt "HAW-HAW" just after they are cast into darkness.
But that is just sickening that they are doing the exact opposite of what Jesus said, and would rather bask in their bigotry than acknowledge this is not their world.

I'm fairly sure you would be booted into hell the moment you took pleasure in them going to hell. Which is fine, because hell can't be a place unless God is evil. If he is evil? Who would want to worship such a tyrant?

 

[Photonic]

The Catholics in the article have spent a 140 years in the area helping take care of their poor in their area. All of you who criticizing them for not compromising their values and allowing gay couples to adopt, please tell me if you've done 1/1,000,000 of the good they have in your own community. Spare me the pedophile jokes while you're at it.

Yea, I'm sure all those children were truly in love with the priests.

 

[McBell]

This isn't an all or nothing proposition.

Seems the church has taken the position that it is, in fact, an all or nothing proposition...

 

[McBell]

The Catholics in the article have spent a 140 years in the area helping take care of their poor in their area. All of you who criticizing them for not compromising their values and allowing gay couples to adopt, please tell me if you've done 1/1,000,000 of the good they have in your own community. Spare me the pedophile jokes while you're at it.

:biglaugh:

nope.
No pedophile jokes from me.
You don't need the competition...