R. C. bishops: We'd rather see children suffer than acknowledge same-sex couples

[Skwim]

"Roman Catholic bishops in Illinois have shuttered most of the Catholic Charities affiliates in the state rather than comply with a new requirement that says they must consider same-sex couples as potential foster-care and adoptive parents if they want to receive state money. The charities have served for more than 40 years as a major link in the state’s social service network for poor and neglected children.

The bishops have followed colleagues in Washington, D.C., and Massachusetts who had jettisoned their adoption services rather than comply with nondiscrimination laws."
source
​

I'm curious, do any Catholics here support this position?

 

[Quiddity]

They are not going to change their beliefs; not now, not ever.

I support this.

Gay couples had options (not to go to a catholic one for example).

They decided to stick it to the catholic church (if you follow what was going on in San Fran) and now it's their fault that the kids are suffering?

 

[Alceste]

"Roman Catholic bishops in Illinois have shuttered most of the Catholic Charities affiliates in the state rather than comply with a new requirement that says they must consider same-sex couples as potential foster-care and adoptive parents if they want to receive state money. The charities have served for more than 40 years as a major link in the state’s social service network for poor and neglected children.

The bishops have followed colleagues in Washington, D.C., and Massachusetts who had jettisoned their adoption services rather than comply with nondiscrimination laws."
source
​

I'm curious, do any Catholics here support this position?

I'm sure there are many that do.

I support it, but not for the reasons a Catholic would. I simply think it is better that such services be provided via a secular framework and subject to public accountability. After all the child abuse that has gone on in state partnerships with religious groups for the provision of social services I no longer trust any church group to be responsible for the general welfare of children without causing irreparable harm.

One way or the other, I am glad they're shuttering their doors. The fact that pure homophobia drove them to it is inconsequential. Good riddance.

 

[Quiddity]

I'm sure there are many that do.

I support it, but not for the reasons a Catholic would. I simply think it is better that such services be provided via a secular framework and subject to public accountability. After all the child abuse that has gone on in state partnerships with religious groups for the provision of social services I no longer trust any church group to be responsible for the general welfare of children without causing irreparable harm.

One way or the other, I am glad they're shuttering their doors. The fact that pure homophobia drove them to it is inconsequential. Good riddance.

Government agencies aren't immune from this stuff.......just sayin.

From your perspective it's one less bigot I suppose.

I hope, for the sake of the children, you are right.

 

[Photonic]

"Roman Catholic bishops in Illinois have shuttered most of the Catholic Charities affiliates in the state rather than comply with a new requirement that says they must consider same-sex couples as potential foster-care and adoptive parents if they want to receive state money. The charities have served for more than 40 years as a major link in the state’s social service network for poor and neglected children.

The bishops have followed colleagues in Washington, D.C., and Massachusetts who had jettisoned their adoption services rather than comply with nondiscrimination laws."
source
​

I'm curious, do any Catholics here support this position?

The Catholic church has repeatedly proven it cares little for children. I'm not surprised by this.

 

[Photonic]

They are not going to change their beliefs; not now, not ever.

I support this.

Gay couples had options (not to go to a catholic one for example).

They decided to stick it to the catholic church (if you follow what was going on in San Fran) and now it's their fault that the kids are suffering?

It's their fault they didn't convert to the catholic church? Is that what all this is about?

Converts?

 

[Quiddity]

It's their fault they didn't convert to the catholic church? Is that what all this is about?

Converts?

Exactly!

 

[Photonic]

Exactly!

Well in that case they can take their bloody money and enjoy the suffering they cause on behalf of Christ. I'm sure he would have been the first to approve.

 

[Quiddity]

Well in that case they can take their bloody money and enjoy the suffering they cause on behalf of Christ.

Dude, you're just spouting crap out that you know nothing about.

Catholic organizations don't just feed, clothe, or adopt to just catholics.

 

[Photonic]

Dude, you're just spouting crap out that you know nothing about.

Catholic organizations don't just feed, clothe, or adopt to just catholics.

No, I'm spouting evidence based on their actions, not what they say.

Deal with it.

 

[Quiddity]

No, I'm spouting evidence based on their actions, not what they say.

Deal with it.

Go ahead and ignore what I said.

Also, I think you meant proof, not evidence.

They don't make atheist like they used to. pfff....

 

[Skwim]

They are not going to change their beliefs; not now, not ever.

Well, they're no longer holding inquisitions, persecuting heretics, financing crusades, or denouncing Jews, so I know change is possible.

I support this.

Sorry to hear this.

Gay couples had options (not to go to a catholic one for example).

This implies that "The charities [that] served for more than 40 years as a major link in the state’s social service network for poor and neglected children." were really superfluous. Think that's the case? That it was all Catholic 'Look-at-how-good-we-are' window dressing?

They decided to stick to the catholic church and now it's their fault that the kids are suffering?

But they were a "major link in the state’s social service network for poor and neglected children." They had taken it upon themselves to fill a critical need, and now they are willing to abandon their long established responsibility because they can't bring themselves to "consider same-sex couples as potential foster-care and adoptive parents." They aren't being asked to condone or support such relationships, just aid the children who have found themselves in them. I'm sure that in time some other organization will fill the hole in these social services, but in the meantime it's the children who will suffer.
I believe that any charity worthy of the name would not shutter its operation, but at least remain in operation until it's services could be adequately taken over by another service.

 

[Father Heathen]

The less The Catholic Church has to do with children, the better.

 

[Alceste]

Government agencies aren't immune from this stuff.......just sayin.

From your perspective it's one less bigot I suppose.

I hope, for the sake of the children, you are right.

No, but in a secular environment the people with the responsibility to handle difficult situations with vulnerable people are expected to have relevant training and expertise. They are expected to have an advanced understanding of child psychology and the credentials to back it up. Can a few perverts, abusers and child molesters slip through the cracks? Sure they can, but it takes real dedication and perseverance. Because of the enormous difficulty one must endure to gain access to children in a publicly accountable secular system, we are much more likely to find molesters and abusers in volunteer-driven clubs, sports and religious groups: Groups with a weak or non-existent vetting framework provide creeps with easy, unsupervised access to children.

We should all face the fact that entrusting the welfare of vulnerable people to religious groups whose authorities have no qualifications at all for dealing with child development and psychological trauma was a TERRIBLE idea. One of humanity's worst ideas, IMO. Social services partnerships between state and church have delivered the world's most vulnerable people into the hands of the world's most dangerous predators for generations. It's about time somebody put a stop to it, and I'm glad it's the church taking the lead. Otherwise there would be a huge outcry from "persecuted" religious people over the loss of their social status.

 

[Skwim]

The less The Catholic Church has to do with children, the better.

It does seem they a very peculiar disregard for them. It would be nice think it's an anomaly, but the way the evidence is piling up ya got to wonder.

 

[Nakosis]

"Roman Catholic bishops in Illinois have shuttered most of the Catholic Charities affiliates in the state rather than comply with a new requirement that says they must consider same-sex couples as potential foster-care and adoptive parents if they want to receive state money. The charities have served for more than 40 years as a major link in the state’s social service network for poor and neglected children.

The bishops have followed colleagues in Washington, D.C., and Massachusetts who had jettisoned their adoption services rather than comply with nondiscrimination laws."
source
​

I'm curious, do any Catholics here support this position?

Separation of Church and State I suppose. Not sure why tax dollars were going to the Catholic Church in the first place. If Catholics want to support it great. The money is still there, it'll just be used by other organizations willing to comply with State laws.

 

[Quiddity]

Well, they're no longer holding inquisitions, persecuting heretics, financing crusades, or denouncing Jews, so I know change is possible.

That's great and all........BUT........none of that has a wit to do with what we believe.

I'm just wondering if you really wanted to hear what catholics had to say or if this is just your way of having fun?

Sorry to hear this.

I'm not. ............<----See I'm even smiling.

This implies that "The charities [that] served for more than 40 years as a major link in the state’s social service network for poor and neglected children." were really superfluous. Think that's the case? That it was all Catholic 'Look-at-how-good-we-are' window dressing?

But they were a "major link in the state’s social service network for poor and neglected children." They had taken it upon themselves to fill a critical need, and now they are willing to abandon their long established responsibility because they can't bring themselves to "consider same-sex couples as potential foster-care and adoptive parents." They aren't being asked to condone or support such relationships, just aid the children who have found themselves in them. I'm sure that in time some other organization will fill the hole in these social services, but in the meantime it's the children who will suffer.
I believe that any charity worthy of the name would not shutter its operation, but at least remain in operation until it's services could be adequately taken over by another service.

They do not want to abandon it; they were forced to by the government. It's really that simple. And the hole isn't that big of gap. Like I said, catholics don't have a monopoly on this.

 

[Photonic]

Go ahead and ignore what I said.

Also, I think you meant proof, not evidence.

They don't make atheist like they used to. pfff....

If you want to call it proof, so be it. That just means absolute certainty.

Looks like they make theists like they used to.

 

[Quiddity]

No, but in a secular environment the people with the responsibility to handle difficult situations with vulnerable people are expected to have relevant training and expertise. They are expected to have an advanced understanding of child psychology and the credentials to back it up. Can a few perverts, abusers and child molesters slip through the cracks? Sure they can, but it takes real dedication and perseverance. Because of the enormous difficulty one must endure to gain access to children in a publicly accountable secular system, we are much more likely to find molesters and abusers in volunteer-driven clubs, sports and religious groups: Groups with a weak or non-existent vetting framework provide creeps with easy, unsupervised access to children.

We should all face the fact that entrusting the welfare of vulnerable people to religious groups whose authorities have no qualifications at all for dealing with child development and psychological trauma was a TERRIBLE idea. One of humanity's worst ideas, IMO. Social services partnerships between state and church have delivered the world's most vulnerable people into the hands of the world's most dangerous predators for generations. It's about time somebody put a stop to it, and I'm glad it's the church taking the lead. Otherwise there would be a huge outcry from "persecuted" religious people over the loss of their social status.

The leaders now have no qualifications; so it's no different in that sense. It's really about the people you hire. Have you stepped into one of these catholic charities? Just curious. Not everyone that works there is a) catholic b) someone they got off the street.

 

[Skwim]

That's great and all........BUT........none of that has a wit to do with what we believe.

Well at one time the Catholic Church believed all of them were valid.They believed it was good to hold inquisitions, persecute heretics, finance crusades, and denounce Jews. Why? Because the eisegesis of their doctrine had told them so.

I'm just wondering if you really wanted to hear what catholics had to say or if this is just your way of having fun?

Of course I want to hear what Catholics have to say, but that in no way means I'll sit in silence nodding my head in understanding, And, if I'm having fun it would only be because some Catholic gave me the dime for the ride.

They do not want to abandon it; they were forced to by the government. It's really that simple.

Yeah, the government: "You gonna act like civilized humans?" The Catholic church: "We have our own definition of 'civilized,' and aren't about to recognize that of society." Government: "Then you can't play with society." While the Church may not have wanted to abandon it, they certainly expected they should be able to play by their own rules.

And the hole isn't that big of gap. Like I said, catholics don't have a monopoly on this.

Excuse me! The Catholic church's involvement was described as being a "major link in the state&#8217;s social service network for poor and neglected children. Broken major links aren't fixed that fast. If you think so then you've never been in the social services. Things happen very slwoooly, and at all levels.