Questioning God's Morality

[Skwim]

Keeping the following two passages in mind.

Malachi 3:6
6 “For I the Lord do not change; therefore you, O children of Jacob, are not consumed.

2 Tim. 3: 16
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness.

​

consider:

1) God's pitiful sense of morality concerning slavery

Exodus 21: 1-2
1 Now these are the rules that you shall set before them. 2 When you buy a Hebrew slave, he shall serve six years, and in the seventh he shall go out free, for nothing.

Exodus 21:7
“When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she shall not go out as the male slaves do.

Exodus 21:20-21
20 “When a man strikes his slave, male or female, with a rod and the slave dies under his hand, he shall be avenged. 21 But if the slave survives a day or two, he is not to be avenged, for the slave is his money.​

2) God's dreadful morality concerning raped virgins

Exodus 22:16
“If a man seduces a virgin who is not betrothed and lies with her, he shall give the bride-price for her and make her his wife.​

​

So, just what kind of god sanctions slavery, and condemns virgins to marry their rapists? Certainly not a kind and loving god.

AND, why aren't Christians following his orders today?

.

​

 

[sooda]

Keeping the following two passages in mind.

Malachi 3:6
6 “For I the Lord do not change; therefore you, O children of Jacob, are not consumed.

2 Tim. 3: 16
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness.

​

consider:

1) God's pitiful sense of morality concerning slavery

Exodus 21: 1-2
1 Now these are the rules that you shall set before them. 2 When you buy a Hebrew slave, he shall serve six years, and in the seventh he shall go out free, for nothing.

Exodus 21:7
“When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she shall not go out as the male slaves do.

Exodus 21:20-21
20 “When a man strikes his slave, male or female, with a rod and the slave dies under his hand, he shall be avenged. 21 But if the slave survives a day or two, he is not to be avenged, for the slave is his money.​

2) God's dreadful morality concerning raped virgins

Exodus 22:16
“If a man seduces a virgin who is not betrothed and lies with her, he shall give the bride-price for her and make her his wife.​

So, just what kind of god sanctions slavery, and condemns virgins to marry their rapists? Certainly not a kind and loving god.

AND, why aren't Christians following his orders today?

.

​

For the same reason we no longer follow ancient laws and rituals.

 

[Spirit of Light]

Keeping the following two passages in mind.

Malachi 3:6
6 “For I the Lord do not change; therefore you, O children of Jacob, are not consumed.

2 Tim. 3: 16
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness.

​

consider:

1) God's pitiful sense of morality concerning slavery

Exodus 21: 1-2
1 Now these are the rules that you shall set before them. 2 When you buy a Hebrew slave, he shall serve six years, and in the seventh he shall go out free, for nothing.

Exodus 21:7
“When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she shall not go out as the male slaves do.

Exodus 21:20-21
20 “When a man strikes his slave, male or female, with a rod and the slave dies under his hand, he shall be avenged. 21 But if the slave survives a day or two, he is not to be avenged, for the slave is his money.​

2) God's dreadful morality concerning raped virgins

Exodus 22:16
“If a man seduces a virgin who is not betrothed and lies with her, he shall give the bride-price for her and make her his wife.​

So, just what kind of god sanctions slavery, and condemns virgins to marry their rapists? Certainly not a kind and loving god.

AND, why aren't Christians following his orders today?

.

​

Exodus is the old testament, it does not belong in christianity, only new testment was meant for Christians

 

[MJFlores]

Keeping the following two passages in mind.

Malachi 3:6
6 “For I the Lord do not change; therefore you, O children of Jacob, are not consumed.

2 Tim. 3: 16
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness.

​

consider:

1) God's pitiful sense of morality concerning slavery

Exodus 21: 1-2
1 Now these are the rules that you shall set before them. 2 When you buy a Hebrew slave, he shall serve six years, and in the seventh he shall go out free, for nothing.

Exodus 21:7
“When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she shall not go out as the male slaves do.

Exodus 21:20-21
20 “When a man strikes his slave, male or female, with a rod and the slave dies under his hand, he shall be avenged. 21 But if the slave survives a day or two, he is not to be avenged, for the slave is his money.​

2) God's dreadful morality concerning raped virgins

Exodus 22:16
“If a man seduces a virgin who is not betrothed and lies with her, he shall give the bride-price for her and make her his wife.​

So, just what kind of god sanctions slavery, and condemns virgins to marry their rapists? Certainly not a kind and loving god.

AND, why aren't Christians following his orders today?

.

​

Slavery again?
Oh boy....
What is slavery and why it happened?

Slavery refers to a condition in which individuals are owned by others, who control where they live and at what they work. Slavery had previously existed throughout history, in many times and most places. The ancient Greeks, the Romans, Incas and Aztecs all had slaves.
What is Slavery?: The Abolition of Slavery Project

Slavery was known in almost every ancient civilization and society including Sumer, Ancient Egypt, Ancient China, the Akkadian Empire, Assyria, Ancient India, Ancient Greece, Carolingian Europe, the Roman Empire, the Hebrew kingdoms of the ancient Levant, and the pre-Columbian civilizations of the Americas.[3] Such institutions included debt-slavery, punishment for crime, the enslavement of prisoners of war, child abandonment, and the birth of slave children to slaves.[48]
Slavery - Wikipedia

So pagan nations like Sumer, Ancient Egypt, Ancient China and others have slavery...
Let's face it, the have it because it's cheap labor.
It is a reality and an economic system.

considered:

The regulation of the Bible sets upon owning a slave.
He is a slave for 6 years and after that he is a free man.

The US of A have slave codes are they kinder than the Bible?
Slavery in the U.S. | Boundless US History

In the United States before the Civil War, a slave is a slave forever.

“If a man seduces a virgin who is not betrothed and lies with her, he shall give the bride-price for her and make her his wife."

This is an amicable settlement. In those days, virginity is regarded highly. And these things exist even today and practiced even in the United States of America!

A marry-your-rapist law, marry-the-rapist law or rape-marriage law is a law regarding rape that exonerates a man or boy from prosecution for rape, sexual assault, statutory rape, abduction or similar acts if the offender marries his female victim. The “marry-your-rapist” law is a legal way for such a rapist to avoid punishment and prosecution.[1] Although the terms for this phenomenon were only coined in the 2010s,[2][3][4][5][6] the practice has existed in a number of legal systems in history, and continues to exist in some societies today in various forms.[7] Such laws were common around the world until the 1970s. Since the late 20th century, the remaining laws of this type have been increasingly challenged and repealed in a number of countries.[4][8]

Marry-your-rapist law - Wikipedia

U.S. states
See also: Age of marriage in the United States and Child marriage in the United States
A certain phenomenon that resembles marry-your-rapist laws exists in some U.S. states, notably Missouri and formerly Florida. This results from loopholes in laws that allow for marriage below the age of consent, thus circumventing statutory rape laws.

Did God invent slavery?
NO.

Did the Bible set regulation on the treatment of slaves?
YES

Which is harsher, the man's slave codes or what is written in the Bible?

 

[wellwisher]

Keeping the following two passages in mind.

Malachi 3:6
6 “For I the Lord do not change; therefore you, O children of Jacob, are not consumed.

2 Tim. 3: 16
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness.

​

consider:

1) God's pitiful sense of morality concerning slavery

Exodus 21: 1-2
1 Now these are the rules that you shall set before them. 2 When you buy a Hebrew slave, he shall serve six years, and in the seventh he shall go out free, for nothing.

Exodus 21:7
“When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she shall not go out as the male slaves do.

Exodus 21:20-21
20 “When a man strikes his slave, male or female, with a rod and the slave dies under his hand, he shall be avenged. 21 But if the slave survives a day or two, he is not to be avenged, for the slave is his money.​

2) God's dreadful morality concerning raped virgins

Exodus 22:16
“If a man seduces a virgin who is not betrothed and lies with her, he shall give the bride-price for her and make her his wife.​

So, just what kind of god sanctions slavery, and condemns virgins to marry their rapists? Certainly not a kind and loving god.

AND, why aren't Christians following his orders today?

.

​

In Genesis, Eve and then Adam ate from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil. Morality defines what is good and evil. Therefore, Adam and Eve sinned when they ate of the tree of morality. This tree was occupied by Satan so it was not considered very reliable.

The reason knowledge of good and evil brought death into the world, is law and morality; knowledge of good and evil, is not objective in an absolute sense. It is often a short term fix, that may not be optimized for all times and for all people; Marijuana laws.

The pitfall you are falling into is connected to revisionist history where one assumes the people of the past have the same 20/20 hindsight of the people of the present, but wear different clothes. Therefore, you assume our version of morality is absolute and eternal, and not merely subjective to our own time.

In other words, slavery and other such things were practical and made sense in the ancients days. However, the sands of time have rendered this less useful in modern times. This is an example of subjective morality changing with time.

If the earth was suddenly destroyed and all the logistics of civilizations were rendered unreliable and limited, slavery could return as way for the masses to obtain food and shelter, in exchange for labor, rebuilding civilization. In resources are very tight there may be no wage.

In modern time, we have the welfare state due to available logistics. If didn't have the logistics but needed to feed everyone, this could mean pandering to the vanity of those who can create the new logistics that can eventually feed all. In this case, slavery, may be the most objective path under these circumstances.

There is a level of temporal objectivity; point in time, to the timeless subjectivity of morality. This is why the righteous man lives by faith and not law. Faith allows for fluid tweaks in law over time, instead of forcing one thing, even when it is out of time; time changes it from objective to subjective.

 

[bobhikes]

Keeping the following two passages in mind.

Malachi 3:6
6 “For I the Lord do not change; therefore you, O children of Jacob, are not consumed.

2 Tim. 3: 16
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness.

​

consider:

1) God's pitiful sense of morality concerning slavery

Exodus 21: 1-2
1 Now these are the rules that you shall set before them. 2 When you buy a Hebrew slave, he shall serve six years, and in the seventh he shall go out free, for nothing.

Exodus 21:7
“When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she shall not go out as the male slaves do.

Exodus 21:20-21
20 “When a man strikes his slave, male or female, with a rod and the slave dies under his hand, he shall be avenged. 21 But if the slave survives a day or two, he is not to be avenged, for the slave is his money.​

2) God's dreadful morality concerning raped virgins

Exodus 22:16
“If a man seduces a virgin who is not betrothed and lies with her, he shall give the bride-price for her and make her his wife.​

So, just what kind of god sanctions slavery, and condemns virgins to marry their rapists? Certainly not a kind and loving god.

AND, why aren't Christians following his orders today?

.

​

My question would be when did god pass these laws down. God dictated the 10 laws to Moses. Jesus enforced the 6 of the 10 Laws and issued two of his own. Where these laws dictated by god or are they interpretations for the followers in the world to make it easier for them.

 

[MJFlores]

Is it really a question of God's morality or is it Man's unquenchable propensity for greed and cruelty?

Some scholars estimate that 1/3 to 1/2 of the population of ancient Athens were slaves.
Rome was built on slaves.
The Ottomans instead focused on a highly lucrative market of sex slavery, which is pretty self-explanatory, and slavery for military service.
Slavery in Ancient History | Study.com

 

[Thief]

AND, why aren't Christians following his orders today?

because the people that wrote such law....
were not Christians

 

[Audie]

Keeping the following two passages in mind.

Malachi 3:6
6 “For I the Lord do not change; therefore you, O children of Jacob, are not consumed.

2 Tim. 3: 16
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness.

​

consider:

1) God's pitiful sense of morality concerning slavery

Exodus 21: 1-2
1 Now these are the rules that you shall set before them. 2 When you buy a Hebrew slave, he shall serve six years, and in the seventh he shall go out free, for nothing.

Exodus 21:7
“When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she shall not go out as the male slaves do.

Exodus 21:20-21
20 “When a man strikes his slave, male or female, with a rod and the slave dies under his hand, he shall be avenged. 21 But if the slave survives a day or two, he is not to be avenged, for the slave is his money.​

2) God's dreadful morality concerning raped virgins

Exodus 22:16
“If a man seduces a virgin who is not betrothed and lies with her, he shall give the bride-price for her and make her his wife.​

So, just what kind of god sanctions slavery, and condemns virgins to marry their rapists? Certainly not a kind and loving god.

AND, why aren't Christians following his orders today?

.

​

Can you think of a moldier topic?

 

[dybmh]

Keeping the following two passages in mind.

Malachi 3:6
6 “For I the Lord do not change; therefore you, O children of Jacob, are not consumed.

2 Tim. 3: 16
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness.

​

consider:

1) God's pitiful sense of morality concerning slavery

Exodus 21: 1-2
1 Now these are the rules that you shall set before them. 2 When you buy a Hebrew slave, he shall serve six years, and in the seventh he shall go out free, for nothing.

Exodus 21:7
“When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she shall not go out as the male slaves do.

Exodus 21:20-21
20 “When a man strikes his slave, male or female, with a rod and the slave dies under his hand, he shall be avenged. 21 But if the slave survives a day or two, he is not to be avenged, for the slave is his money.​

2) God's dreadful morality concerning raped virgins

Exodus 22:16
“If a man seduces a virgin who is not betrothed and lies with her, he shall give the bride-price for her and make her his wife.​

So, just what kind of god sanctions slavery, and condemns virgins to marry their rapists? Certainly not a kind and loving god.

AND, why aren't Christians following his orders today?

.

​

Your premise is based on the "cliff notes" version of the Old Testament.

 

[The_Fisher_King]

So, just what kind of god sanctions slavery, and condemns virgins to marry their rapists?

Not the Highest God (the True God), but a lower Creator god, creator of the material world, who does not have our interests at heart.

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

Exodus is the old testament, it does not belobg in christianity, only new testment was meant for Christians

So you are just fine with homosexuals marrying, then? Good to know!

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

Slavery again?
Oh boy....
What is slavery and why it happened?

Slavery refers to a condition in which individuals are owned by others, who control where they live and at what they work. Slavery had previously existed throughout history, in many times and most places. The ancient Greeks, the Romans, Incas and Aztecs all had slaves.
What is Slavery?: The Abolition of Slavery Project

Slavery was known in almost every ancient civilization and society including Sumer, Ancient Egypt, Ancient China, the Akkadian Empire, Assyria, Ancient India, Ancient Greece, Carolingian Europe, the Roman Empire, the Hebrew kingdoms of the ancient Levant, and the pre-Columbian civilizations of the Americas.[3] Such institutions included debt-slavery, punishment for crime, the enslavement of prisoners of war, child abandonment, and the birth of slave children to slaves.[48]
Slavery - Wikipedia

So pagan nations like Sumer, Ancient Egypt, Ancient China and others have slavery...
Let's face it, the have it because it's cheap labor.
It is a reality and an economic system.

considered:

The regulation of the Bible sets upon owning a slave.
He is a slave for 6 years and after that he is a free man.

The US of A have slave codes are they kinder than the Bible?
Slavery in the U.S. | Boundless US History

In the United States before the Civil War, a slave is a slave forever.

“If a man seduces a virgin who is not betrothed and lies with her, he shall give the bride-price for her and make her his wife."

This is an amicable settlement. In those days, virginity is regarded highly. And these things exist even today and practiced even in the United States of America!

A marry-your-rapist law, marry-the-rapist law or rape-marriage law is a law regarding rape that exonerates a man or boy from prosecution for rape, sexual assault, statutory rape, abduction or similar acts if the offender marries his female victim. The “marry-your-rapist” law is a legal way for such a rapist to avoid punishment and prosecution.[1] Although the terms for this phenomenon were only coined in the 2010s,[2][3][4][5][6] the practice has existed in a number of legal systems in history, and continues to exist in some societies today in various forms.[7] Such laws were common around the world until the 1970s. Since the late 20th century, the remaining laws of this type have been increasingly challenged and repealed in a number of countries.[4][8]

Marry-your-rapist law - Wikipedia

U.S. states
See also: Age of marriage in the United States and Child marriage in the United States
A certain phenomenon that resembles marry-your-rapist laws exists in some U.S. states, notably Missouri and formerly Florida. This results from loopholes in laws that allow for marriage below the age of consent, thus circumventing statutory rape laws.

Did God invent slavery?
NO.

Did the Bible set regulation on the treatment of slaves?
YES

Which is harsher, the man's slave codes or what is written in the Bible?

To sum up: The bible's god was so inept at BEING a god, that it could not convince it's Special Chosen People to ... give up slavery?

Because *everyone* was doing it back then?

Wow....

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

Your premise is based on the "cliff notes" version of the Old Testament.

Still a valid criticism, though.

 

[MJFlores]

To sum up: The bible's god was so inept at BEING a god, that it could not convince it's Special Chosen People to ... give up slavery?

Because *everyone* was doing it back then?

Wow....

If slavery never existed....

I guess the Americans will not have structures built by slave labor.
https://www.theroot.com/6-historic-structures-in-america-that-were-built-by-sla-1790856172

I guess racial discrimination would exist with strength in Europe and in the Americas.

I guess there will be very few African Americans in the USA and Barack Obama would not have been President.

I guess the USA will be strong like Canada instead of being the America that we know today.

I guess the American Civil War wouldn't happen because there will be no cause to fight for it.

But if it happened for another cause, the Confederates would win.

The possibilities are endless.
There will be no Will Smith,
no Denzel Washington,
no super NBA Basketball players since white men couldn't jump,
there will be no Beyonce,
no Whitney Houston,
no Micheal Jackson,
no Prince,
only white people will be singing American songs and will be in Hollywood.

I think there will be strong racial hatred around the world because there were no lessons from slavery to learn from.

 

[Spirit of Light]

So you are just fine with homosexuals marrying, then? Good to know!

i have no opinion about who people marry, or have sex with, Why should i judge them?
I lived a long part of my life judging homosexual people, but i have come to the conclution that it is non of my business who they are with.
All i can do is to take good care of my female partner

Just wonder, where in my reply did you get the thought about my opinion about homosexual people marry?

 

[Skwim]

For the same reason we no longer follow ancient laws and rituals.

Exodus is the old testament, it does not belong in christianity, only new testment was meant for Christians

That's why I explicitly mentioned Malachi 3:6 and 2 Tim. 3: 16. They lay down god's enduring judgement. It doesn't come and go.

Malachi 3:6
6 “For I the Lord do not change; therefore you, O children of Jacob, are not consumed.​

If god doesn't change it would mean his thinking doesn't change, therefore, what he found acceptable or unacceptable years ago would be the same today.

2 Tim. 3: 16
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness.​

This reinforces the persistence of god's Old Testament judgements. Ancient or not, his views on slavery and rape remain the same.

.

 

[Spirit of Light]

That's why I explicitly mentioned Malachi 3:6 and 2 Tim. 3: 16. They lay down god's enduring judgement. It doesn't come and go.

Malachi 3:6
6 “For I the Lord do not change; therefore you, O children of Jacob, are not consumed.​

If god doesn't change it would mean his thinking doesn't change, therefore, what he found acceptable or unacceptable years ago would be the same today.

2 Tim. 3: 16
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness.​

This reinforces the persistence of god's Old Testament judgements. Ancient or not, his views on slavery and rape remain the same.

.

I am not Christian so i have no reason to Judge the Christian/Jewish God.
Nor do i wish to Judge human beings anymore, I did before but do not wish to do it from now

 

[Skwim]

“If a man seduces a virgin who is not betrothed and lies with her, he shall give the bride-price for her and make her his wife."

This is an amicable settlement. In those days, virginity is regarded highly. And these things exist even today and practiced even in the United States of America!

"Amicable settlement"? Tell that to your 14 year-old daughter who has to spend the rest of her life with the guy who has so little respect for her that he found it justifiable to rape her.

Did God invent slavery?
NO.

Even if he didn't, he condones it.

Did the Bible set regulation on the treatment of slaves?
YES

Gee, how nice for the slave.

Which is harsher, the man's slave codes or what is written in the Bible?

"Which is harsher"? Why would god want people to be harsh to anyone? Aren't we suppose to love one another?

In any case, when you consider that the Bible says

1 Peter 2:18 English
18 Servants, be subject to your masters with all respect, not only to the good and gentle but also to the unjust.

Exodus 21:20-21
20 If a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod and he dies at his hand, he shall be punished. 21If, however, he survives a day or two, no vengeance shall be taken; for he is his property.
​

"Survive a day or two"? Gee, how generous of you god.

​

Now, I don't know what man's slave code was, but I cant imagine it being much harsher than this.

.

​

 

[ecco]

AND, why aren't Christians following his orders today?

For the same reason we no longer follow ancient laws and rituals.

Yeah.

It's called Pick and Choose.

God created the universe - OK
God forbade eating lobster - Nah - He didn't really mean it.