Question for Atheists

[TagliatelliMonster]

There is no physical evidence because the soul is not physical.

Which makes it look suspiciously similar to non-existent things.

It can only be seen through its signs and works.

Such as?
And would those "signs and works" not be physical things, by any chance?

You can believe that if you want to,

What he said were demonstrable facts.
"believe" is what you do.

but you will find out differently

Or not.

after you die and are not dead.

Before or after I become a married bachelor?

 

[Trailblazer]

Which makes it look suspiciously similar to non-existent things.

It might look that way, but looks can be deceiving.

Such as?
And would those "signs and works" not be physical things, by any chance?

Ubetcha, since it is the soul that directs the physical body.

What he said were demonstrable facts.
"believe" is what you do.

What I believe might not be factual, but that does not mean it is not true. It could be either true or false, logically speaking.

Or not.

If you want to gamble on that it's your call.

Before or after I become a married bachelor?

You'll find out when you die. See you there, I hope.....
There had just better be some atheists up there because otherwise heaven would be as boring as hell.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

It might look that way, but looks can be deceiving.

Sure. But lacking any evidence for the contrary, if it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, walks like a duck,.... very likely it is a duck.

Ubetcha, since it is the soul that directs the physical body.

That that is in direct contradiction to your earlier statement, that there can't be any physical evidence.
First you state there can't be physical evidence, and then you go on to list what you consider to be evidence... which is physical.

What I believe might not be factual, but that does not mean it is not true.

Euh... that's what "not factual" means..............

It could be either true or false, logically speaking.

And there is no reason at all to think it's true.

If you want to gamble on that it's your call.

Pascal's wager. A very very poor "argument".

Should you be out joining wars so you can have an honorable death on the battle field so that you can join Odin in Whalhalla? Why would you want to gamble?

You'll find out when you die. See you there, I hope.....

"hope" is not a proper measure to find out if something is true or not.
And you won't be seeing anything. There wouldn't be a "you". Just like there wasn't a "you" before you were born.

There had just better be some atheists up there because otherwise heaven would be as boring as hell.

Anything that lasts for eternity would be boring.
Finity is what give things value.

Something that is infinite, is worthless.

Neither, though, are reasons to believe or not believe. What one prefers has no bearing on what is actually true. Or false.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Science proves man is a hybrid, body and person.

"Science proves" this, you say?

 

[Trailblazer]

Sure. But lacking any evidence for the contrary, if it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, walks like a duck,.... very likely it is a duck.

But it only looks like a duck to you.

That that is in direct contradiction to your earlier statement, that there can't be any physical evidence.
First you state there can't be physical evidence, and then you go on to list what you consider to be evidence... which is physical.

I said that there is no physical evidence of the soul and that it can only be seen in its signs and works, and it can be seen "working" through the physical body.

Euh... that's what "not factual" means..............

Something does not have to be factual to be true because proof is not what makes something true..

And there is no reason at all to think it's true.

No reason for you to think it is true.

Pascal's wager. A very very poor "argument".

It's not as poor as you think.

"hope" is not a proper measure to find out if something is true or not.

I was not using hope as a measure. I was just hoping I'd see my atheist friends in the next world..

And you won't be seeing anything. There wouldn't be a "you". Just like there wasn't a "you" before you were born.

I'd be careful if I were you. If you are asserting that you are making an argument from ignorance. I believe, I do not assert, so I am in the clear.

Argument from ignorance asserts that a proposition is true because it has not yet been proven false or proposition is false because it has not yet been proven true. This represents a type of false dichotomy in that it excludes a third option, which is that there may have been an insufficient investigation, and therefore there is insufficient information to prove the proposition be either true or false. Nor does it allow the admission that the choices may in fact not be two (true or false), but may be as many as four,

1. true
2. false
3. unknown between true or false
4. being unknowable (among the first three).[1]

Argument from ignorance - Wikipedia

Anything that lasts for eternity would be boring.
Finity is what give things value.

Something that is infinite, is worthless.

You cannot know that, so it you assert it, it is another argument from ignorance.

Neither, though, are reasons to believe or not believe. What one prefers has no bearing on what is actually true. Or false.

You really hot the jackpot on that one. What one prefers has no bearing on what is actually true or false.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

According to the scientific law of change, man is a hybrid body and person, according to the law of change the body changes all through life, but the person does not change, you are always the same person, so man must be a hybrid!

Pretentious rubbish.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

"Science proves" this, you say?

You obviously missed the big reveal.

 

[ChristineM]

Science proves man is a hybrid, body and person.

According to the scientific law of change, man is a hybrid body and person, according to the law of change the body changes all through life, but the person does not change, you are always the same person, so man must be a hybrid!

Your body is physical and sense perceptible, or known by the senses.
What is the origin of your body, it is according to science the result of natural conception.

Your person is not physical, not sense perceptible, therefore not physical, so there must be some non-physical reality, or spiritual reality!
A supernatural reality, superior to physical nature, with intellect and will.

What is the origin of your person, it is not physical so it does not result from physical natural conception, at one time you did not exist, now you do exist, the only logical conclusion is????

thanks

Spoiler: The only logical conclusion...

 

[stvdv]

Your person is not physical, not sense perceptible, therefore not physical, so there must be some non-physical reality, or spiritual reality!
A supernatural reality

True

I am not the body
I am not the mind
I am not the emotions

Hence

I Am
@stvdvRF

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

But it only looks like a duck to you.

You are free to demonstrate otherwise. Oeps.

I said that there is no physical evidence of the soul and that it can only be seen in its signs and works, and it can be seen "working" through the physical body.

That would be physical evidence of the soul.

You can't see magnetism either, but you can see it "working" through the fields it creates.

Something does not have to be factual to be true because proof is not what makes something true..

Give an example of something that is true, yet not factual.

No reason for you to think it is true.

No good and valid reason. And not just for me. That goes for everyone.
It just so happens that many people aren't bothered believing things for bad reasons.

"i don't want it to be true!"
That could be a reason to not believe something. But is it a good reason?

It's not as poor as you think.

If not as poor as I think, then even poorer.

I'd be careful if I were you. If you are asserting that you are making an argument from ignorance. I believe, I do not assert, so I am in the clear.

Nope.

All evidence is consistent with the idea that dead = dead. Game over. Finito. Fin. The End.
That's the opposite of an argument from ignorance.

An argument from ignorance is "i don't know, therefor the answer must be X", in a nutshell.
That is not what I'm doing here.

Argument from ignorance asserts that a proposition is true because it has not yet been proven false or proposition is false because it has not yet been proven true. This represents a type of false dichotomy in that it excludes a third option, which is that there may have been an insufficient investigation, and therefore there is insufficient information to prove the proposition be either true or false. Nor does it allow the admission that the choices may in fact not be two (true or false), but may be as many as four,

1. true
2. false
3. unknown between true or false
4. being unknowable (among the first three).[1]

Argument from ignorance - Wikipedia

All reliable and objective information we have, suggests that dead is the end.
There is no reliable and objective information to suggest otherwise.

You cannot know that, so it you assert it, it is another argument from ignorance.

No. This is so with everything.
I challenge you to give an example of the contrary.

Scarcity is what creates value.
Life is precious, because it ends.

1 dollar is a lot when you have only 100 bucks.
1 dollar is nothing if you are bill gates.

 

[exchemist]

Science proves man is a hybrid, body and person.

According to the scientific law of change, man is a hybrid body and person, according to the law of change the body changes all through life, but the person does not change, you are always the same person, so man must be a hybrid!

Your body is physical and sense perceptible, or known by the senses.
What is the origin of your body, it is according to science the result of natural conception.

Your person is not physical, not sense perceptible, therefore not physical, so there must be some non-physical reality, or spiritual reality!
A supernatural reality, superior to physical nature, with intellect and will.

What is the origin of your person, it is not physical so it does not result from physical natural conception, at one time you did not exist, now you do exist, the only logical conclusion is????

thanks

This is a duplicate of a thread you have already started.

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

Science proves man is a hybrid, body and person.

I don't think this is what you can necessarily derive from scientific findings. There is something we currently term "consciousness" which is a thing that allows for the interception and reaction to stimulus, access to memories, etc. Whether it is distinct from "the body" enough to call the two a "hybrid" is debatable. And as a matter of fact, using the term "hybrid" would assume that "body" and "person" are of two completely separate categories of thing, and that their coming together to form a human is somehow novel and forms a new synthesis of these disparate things. That's simply not the case, as ALL evidence would point to. For one, your person cannot simply be separated from your body - sure there are people who claim that they have accomplished this, or experienced it as part of some near-death experience, but those claims have yet to be verified, and in the case of NDE come from a place of questionable trustworthiness (that is, "near death"), and in the case of a lot of these other people who claim things like "astral projection", etc. are there any examples of people having successfully performed tests that verify this while being studied directly? I know only of stories which are just that - stories. And many times I have heard personally from people who are of questionable character, and who tend to do a lot of drugs. Just saying.

Ultimately, the evidence points to the body and mind (what you are calling "person") being a packaged deal. You're born with both. Damage to one can effect the other. When either fails the other fails along with it. Etc. etc. etc.

Your person is not physical, not sense perceptible, therefore not physical, so there must be some non-physical reality, or spiritual reality!
A supernatural reality, superior to physical nature, with intellect and will.

This is junk. Just because something isn't "physical" doesn't mean it is "spiritual." What a load of nonsense. If that's the case, then numbers are "spiritual." Just dumb. You spiritualists need to get a new schtick. This one isn't funny anymore.

What is the origin of your person, it is not physical so it does not result from physical natural conception, at one time you did not exist, now you do exist, the only logical conclusion is????

The ONLY logical conclusion is to admit that we don't currently know. That is the ONLY logical conclusion to come to. Anything else is illogical. Jury is still out. Done.

 

[ChristineM]

Science proves man is a hybrid, body and person.

According to the scientific law of change, man is a hybrid body and person, according to the law of change the body changes all through life, but the person does not change, you are always the same person, so man must be a hybrid!

Your body is physical and sense perceptible, or known by the senses.
What is the origin of your body, it is according to science the result of natural conception.

Your person is not physical, not sense perceptible, therefore not physical, so there must be some non-physical reality, or spiritual reality!
A supernatural reality, superior to physical nature, with intellect and will.

What is the origin of your person, it is not physical so it does not result from physical natural conception, at one time you did not exist, now you do exist, the only logical conclusion is????

thanks

So what's the question?

 

[Quetzal]

thanks

only cos you can’t answer

the only logical conclusion is you were created therefore there is a creator

I don't think the story is that simple and I am skeptical of people who try to force that conclusion.

 

[Trailblazer]

You are free to demonstrate otherwise. Oeps.

I cannot demonstrate what it does not look like to you.

That would be physical evidence of the soul.

You can't see magnetism either, but you can see it "working" through the fields it creates.

No, it is not 'physical evidence' of the soul because the soul is not physical, but it is evidence that the soul exists.

Give an example of something that is true, yet not factual.

That a soul exists.

No good and valid reason. And not just for me. That goes for everyone.

It just so happens that many people aren't bothered believing things for bad reasons.

You cannot speak for everyone as to want are good or bad reasons for believing in things.
A good and valid reason is a misnomer because what is a good and valid reason to one person is not a good and valid reason to another person.

"i don't want it to be true!"
That could be a reason to not believe something. But is it a good reason?

No, it is a very bad reason. Often I don't want my religion to be true but I cannot disbelieve in what I know is true.

If not as poor as I think, then even poorer.

Then explain why it is poor, or poorer.

Nope.

All evidence is consistent with the idea that dead = dead. Game over. Finito. Fin. The End.
That's the opposite of an argument from ignorance.

You are dead wrong, it you will pardon the pun. This is not my first rodeo with atheists so I know all the logical fallacies they commit.

The only evidence you have is that when the physical body dies it is dead. You have no evidence that the soul does not leave the body and live on -- zero, zilch, nada. And that is why if you assert that there is nothing that lives on after the body dies it is and argument from ignorance.

There is insufficient information to prove the proposition is either true or false. The choices may in fact not be two (true or false), but may be as many as four,

1. true
2. false
3. unknown between true or false
4. being unknowable (among the first three).[1]

An argument from ignorance is "i don't know, therefor the answer must be X", in a nutshell.
That is not what I'm doing here.

That is not what an argument from ignorance is. I suggest you bone up on your logical fallacies.
An argument from ignorance asserts that a proposition is true because it has not yet been proven false or proposition is false because it has not yet been proven true. You are asserting that the proposition "an immortal soul exists" is false because it has not yet been proven true so that is an argument from ignorance because the choices may in fact not be two (true or false), but may be as many as four,

1. true
2. false
3. unknown between true or false
4. being unknowable (among the first three).[1]

All reliable and objective information we have, suggests that dead is the end.
There is no reliable and objective information to suggest otherwise.

That only applies to the physical body. There is evidence that the soul lives on whether you LIKE that evidence or not.

Scarcity is what creates value.
Life is precious, because it ends.

That is actually true. This physical life is precious because it ends and it is our only opportunity to enjoy physical things. It is also precious because it is our only opportunity to prepare for the next life. That is why there are so many warnings in scriptures, like this one:

40: O MY SERVANT! Free thyself from the fetters of this world, and loose thy soul from the prison of self. Seize thy chance, for it will come to thee no more. The Hidden Words of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 36

 

[Twilight Hue]

Science proves man is a hybrid, body and person.

According to the scientific law of change, man is a hybrid body and person, according to the law of change the body changes all through life, but the person does not change, you are always the same person, so man must be a hybrid!

Your body is physical and sense perceptible, or known by the senses.
What is the origin of your body, it is according to science the result of natural conception.

Your person is not physical, not sense perceptible, therefore not physical, so there must be some non-physical reality, or spiritual reality!
A supernatural reality, superior to physical nature, with intellect and will.

What is the origin of your person, it is not physical so it does not result from physical natural conception, at one time you did not exist, now you do exist, the only logical conclusion is????

thanks

None of that. We are organic mechs run by cells and neurons calling the shots.

 

[HonestJoe]

What is the origin of your person, it is not physical so it does not result from physical natural conception, at one time you did not exist, now you do exist, the only logical conclusion is????

It's an abstract concept that originates in all our minds.

 

[McBell]

This is a duplicate of a thread you have already started.

Thank goodness.
I thought I was having deja moo...

You know, where you are pretty sure you have heard this line of ********* before...

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

thanks

only cos you can’t answer

the only logical conclusion is you were created therefore there is a creator

That is certainly NOT a "logical" conclusion. It is a religious one.

 

[Viker]

thanks

only cos you can’t answer

the only logical conclusion is you were created therefore there is a creator

You got logic out of all that?