1. Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Featured Putting the JW Stand on Evolution in Perspective

Discussion in 'Evolution Vs. Creationism' started by Skwim, Nov 25, 2018.

  1. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest Greased up & ready for action!
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2010
    Messages:
    146,080
    Ratings:
    +40,370
    Religion:
    Bokononism
    I'm an engineer (recovering), so I'm a big fan of educated guessing.
    But macro is testable, albeit perhaps not to the level desired by some.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  2. Estro Felino

    Estro Felino Believer in free will
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2014
    Messages:
    8,186
    Ratings:
    +2,281
    Religion:
    Pelagianism
    It doesn't surprise me either...since I know one...a JW since the primary school period.
    she believes in Adam and Eve made out of clay.
     
  3. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest Greased up & ready for action!
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2010
    Messages:
    146,080
    Ratings:
    +40,370
    Religion:
    Bokononism
    An interesting take on biology.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Funny Funny x 1
  4. Estro Felino

    Estro Felino Believer in free will
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2014
    Messages:
    8,186
    Ratings:
    +2,281
    Religion:
    Pelagianism
    Indeed....when she told me I burst out laughing.
    It's a flaw of mine...I cannot retain laughter...
    I've lost several friends because of this little problem:D:p:p
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
  5. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2017
    Messages:
    23,739
    Ratings:
    +13,084
    Religion:
    Atheist
    Do you realize that when you use lying non-scientific sources that you end up looking like a liar yourself? Creationist sites as a rule are worthless in scientific discussions since workers their have to swear not to follow the scientific method. By doing so they make all of their "research" so questionable as to be worthless. Another "source" that you used appeared to be bogus as well. They sited real sources but did not have links to them. When the source do not support ones claims a common tactic of creationists is to list them but not to provide a link.

    By using such poor sources there is no need to rebut any of your claims. Would you care to try again?
     
    • Like Like x 2
  6. nPeace

    nPeace Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 31, 2018
    Messages:
    3,807
    Ratings:
    +1,039
    Religion:
    Follower of Christ
    I don't know how to respond, other than to repeat -
    1 Corinthians 2:14-16 14 But a physical man does not accept the things of the spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot get to know them, because they are examined spiritually. 15 However, the spiritual man examines all things, but he himself is not examined by any man. 16For “who has come to know the mind of Jehovah, so that he may instruct him?” But we do have the mind of Christ.

    Do you think you understand?

    Psalm 34:1-3 . . .2 I will boast in Jehovah; The meek will hear and rejoice.

    Isaiah 41:16 . . .You will be joyful in Jehovah, And you will boast in the Holy One of Israel.

    Jeremiah 9:23, 24 23This is what Jehovah says: “Let not the wise man boast about his wisdom; Let not the mighty man boast about his mightiness; And let not the rich man boast about his riches.” 24 “But let the one boasting boast about this: That he has insight and knowledge of me, That I am Jehovah, the One showing loyal love, justice, and righteousness in the earth, For in these things I take delight,” declares Jehovah.

    1 Corinthians 1:26-31 26For you see his calling of you, brothers, that there are not many wise in a fleshly way, not many powerful, not many of noble birth, 27but God chose the foolish things of the world to put the wise men to shame; and God chose the weak things of the world to put the strong things to shame; 28and God chose the insignificant things of the world and the things looked down on, the things that are not, to bring to nothing the things that are, 29so that no one might boast in the sight of God. 30 But it is due to him that you are in union with Christ Jesus, who has become to us wisdom from God, also righteousness and sanctification and release by ransom, 31so that it may be just as it is written: “The one who boasts, let him boast in Jehovah.”

    2 Corinthians 10:17, 18 17 “But the one who boasts, let him boast in Jehovah.” 18For it is not the one who recommends himself who is approved, but the one whom Jehovah recommends.

    Do you still not understand?
    ...a physical man does not accept the things of the spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot get to know them, because they are examined spiritually.

    Jehovah says, the boasting in him is good. Why?
    Luke 19:36-40 40 But in reply he said: “I tell you, if these remained silent, the stones would cry out.”
    Primarily it honors him, and it saves lives.
    https://www.jw.org/en/jehovahs-witnesses/faq/true-religion/
     
    #66 nPeace, Nov 26, 2018
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2018
  7. nPeace

    nPeace Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 31, 2018
    Messages:
    3,807
    Ratings:
    +1,039
    Religion:
    Follower of Christ
    You are claiming that they are liars, so how can I correct a mistake if I don't know what the mistake is. Would you like to point it out to me, or are you just happy with chanting, "Liar"?
     
  8. nPeace

    nPeace Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 31, 2018
    Messages:
    3,807
    Ratings:
    +1,039
    Religion:
    Follower of Christ
    How is that different? It's still a lie.
     
  9. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2017
    Messages:
    23,739
    Ratings:
    +13,084
    Religion:
    Atheist
    And yet no one can a working definition of "design". The term "species" also does not have a surefire definition. But that is due to the fact that life is the product of evolution. That is also why biology is switching its classification system over to cladistics since those classifications do work. Species is a man made concept that does not quite match what is found in nature. It comes very close, but due to evolution it is hard to make a clear cut border between some species. Now if "design" was true and there was no evolution a clear cut border of species should exist. If "design" was true there should be a working definition of it. Instead all that exists is circular arguments at best. Or perhaps there was a recent development in the creationist world.

    And by the way, you need to be careful who you site. Creationists tend to be very dishonest and there is a bit of diversity among them. Some creationists even accept common descent. Those are the ones that came up with the "design" nonsense. Regular run of the mill "Adam and Eve" creationists cannot come even close to a working definition.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  10. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2017
    Messages:
    23,739
    Ratings:
    +13,084
    Religion:
    Atheist
    Use proper sources. Use sources that rely on real peer review and not fake peer review.

    If you cannot find the basis of the claims in a well respected peer reviewed professional journal then you can pretty much rule it out as a reliable source. ICR requires their workers not to use the scientific method. Why use such a source?

    By the way, you have been debating this for some time now. You should know this yourself. What is your excuse for your bad actions of using such sources?
     
    • Like Like x 1
  11. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2017
    Messages:
    23,739
    Ratings:
    +13,084
    Religion:
    Atheist
    Whoa! By this standard all of your anti-evolution sources are liars. Now some of them obviously are liars but you have equated a possible error of @Skwim 's to lying. Every anti-evolution source that I have ever seen makes countless errors. Most of them are lying since they have been corrected and have no excuse for repeating their claims, but I will not say that is the case for all of them.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  12. tas8831

    tas8831 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2018
    Messages:
    1,346
    Ratings:
    +1,064
    Explains a lot...
     
  13. tas8831

    tas8831 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2018
    Messages:
    1,346
    Ratings:
    +1,064
    Probably not, because for the most part, atheists tend to accept that for which there is evidence. We tend not to rely so much on mere 'belief.'
    Well, I've been slumming around in forums like this for almost 20 years, and have been reading creationist material for more than 30. And I have encountered a lot of people that reject evolution on religious grounds. Many of them also declare things - silly, ignorant things - like there is no evidence for evolution, that the theory is nonsensical, etc. Yet even these folks, ultimately, rely on their religious indoctrination rather than evidence, especially once their assertions are demolished.
    Wow - a Trump endorsing Catholic, and contributor to 'First Things'.
    Funny thing - lots of simple folk like to bash education, calling it liberal indoctrination and such. And if they even try, they draw on the handful of silly and embarrassing examples drawn from fields like women's studies, gender studies, etc., as if these examples are emblematic of ALL programs at all universities.
    I think it is a way to make themselves feel better about not being very well educated. Sort of like how overweight couch potatoes yell "You suck!" at professional athletes when they strike out, or drop a pass.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  14. tas8831

    tas8831 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2018
    Messages:
    1,346
    Ratings:
    +1,064
    Why crackpot?
    Sounds like a real inclusive bunch. No wonder I yell at them when they come around and try to inflict their crazy dogma on me.
     
    • Funny Funny x 2
    • Like Like x 1
  15. tas8831

    tas8831 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2018
    Messages:
    1,346
    Ratings:
    +1,064
    • Funny Funny x 1
  16. nPeace

    nPeace Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 31, 2018
    Messages:
    3,807
    Ratings:
    +1,039
    Religion:
    Follower of Christ
    Really, what isn't a man-made term, and why is design used in science if it doesn't work?
     
    #76 nPeace, Nov 26, 2018
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2018
  17. tas8831

    tas8831 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2018
    Messages:
    1,346
    Ratings:
    +1,064
    Right... Common sense... Like declaring there to be no evidence for evolution even after unwittingly admitting that you are not educated enough to even understand the evidence.

    Classic!
    How can you possibly guarantee such a thing?
    Then, ignorance is, after all, bliss.
    Dunno. Maybe because of your general humility?
    More of that bliss....
     
    • Like Like x 2
  18. nPeace

    nPeace Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 31, 2018
    Messages:
    3,807
    Ratings:
    +1,039
    Religion:
    Follower of Christ
    Who on these forums use peer review? Are you saying you can't debate a Creationist hat doesn't use peer review? Am I missing something?
     
  19. Earthling

    Earthling David Henson

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2005
    Messages:
    3,793
    Ratings:
    +741
    Religion:
    Bible Believer
    I think maybe you better go back over the thread one more time. The claim was made that 8% of over 300, 000, 000 JWs, that is, 29 million, believed in evolution. There are only 8 million JWs.

    So what I pointed out is that some JW detractor needed to do his homework better and be more careful about his ignorant claims.
     
  20. tas8831

    tas8831 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2018
    Messages:
    1,346
    Ratings:
    +1,064
    Empty assertions, repeated lies. Yes, I consider it a lie to make dishonest claims like these, even after repeatedly being presented with evidence (that you unwittingly admit to being ignorant of).

    Didn't you just whine about your kind being 'picked on' or something?
     
    #80 tas8831, Nov 26, 2018
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2018
    • Like Like x 2
Loading...